stage 8 header bolts - too soft?

[twoseater]

Got the ceramic headers in - no problem. I figured tightening the bolts would the fun part with my stage 8 bolts and the 3/16" allen wrench socket cavity.

Well I was attempting to torque the bolts to 30 lb and the allen wrench started turning in the header bolt. At first I thought - POS allen wrench. Well allen wrench in unscathed so it appears to be the header bolt cavity is stripping.

Out comes the 7/16" open end wrench (no room for a socket) and the corners of the bolts started to round over. I can't believe with the angle I'm at the the short 7/16" wrench that I'm getting anywhere near 30lbs. I guess its feasible but I'm not confident I have 30 lbs......

How did others get the bolts tighetend with confidence? Apparently the allen wrench hole is just for snugging and not fully tightening?

I'm going to check if I can get a 7/16" wrench with maybe two more sides to get more surface area to grab. Definately no room between the header and the bolt to get a box wrench on etc.

Any advice from those that had dared to go where I'm now at?

 

[duke94]

Been there done that! You need a Snap-on (or simular) open end wrench that looks like this. http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item...1&group_ID=560&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog

The combo of angles will let you get the bolts tight. (forget the torque wrench!). Use the premium multi layer header gaskets and the Stage 8 locks and you'll never have a leak. Mine have been on 4 years with no problems and I have Aluminum heads.

These are the gaskets I used.

http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_10001_10002_744841_-1_10259

 

[JohnZ]

Yup, same wrench I use for header bolts.

 

[twoseater]

Thanks Guys - I'll pick one up. I'm worried about the corners of the bolts that are rounding over on the stage8 bolts. Hence, I was thinking of a wrench with more sides (not quite a full box wrench not quite open...).

Anyway, you guys survived with that wrench so you've set the bar for me to follow!

Thanks!

 

[duke94]

Actually it takes a combination of this wrench, a regular open end and the allen wrench to get them all tight.

 

[TJay]

Everyone has given you great advise and I know you said you have no room for a socket, but I found 12point stainless bolts work great. I used a 1/4 drive 12 point socket, have you tried a 1/4 drive.

Good Luck

 

[bmotojoe]

I hope your not putting stainless bolts into a aluminum head! Even into cast iron the stainless will not take the heat at all. Stainless steel hardware is no where near as strong as a grade 5 or higher. Stainless hardware has its applications but around the exhaust areas be careful!
Take a look at the Flank Drive Plus style of wrench if you ever step into a Snap-On truck. I think Craftsman makes a similar wrench but there a bit thicker in design. Snap-On stock number is SVS14 for the 4 way angle head 7/16”.
I wrench behind operators that only carry crescent wrenches or channel locks for small adjustments on there machinery. I run into messed up bolt heads all the time and the Flank Drive Plus design wrench really does remove most of even the almost rounded off bolts.
Brian

 

[Bill75]

Hence, I was thinking of a wrench with more sides (not quite a full box wrench not quite open...).

Like this? A linewrench or crowsfoot wrench. This ones made for a special shank but you can get them with a handle like a normal wrench. I've never tried on on the header bolts though so I have no experience with it on them, your comment just reminded me of this.

 

[JohnZ]

I hope your not putting stainless bolts into a aluminum head! Even into cast iron the stainless will not take the heat at all. Stainless steel hardware is no where near as strong as a grade 5 or higher. Brian

That's correct for ordinary or "dress-up" stainless fasteners (most of which are Grade 2, about what you'd use to hang a farm gate), but not an issue with ARP or SPS stainless bolts, which are 170,000 psi (Grade 8+).

I use the ARP NASCAR pre-drilled header bolts, with anti-seize, and safety-wire them; the reduced-size 6-point hex lets you use an open-end wrench on them where a socket won't reach (can't use an open-end wrench on a 12-point bolt).

 

[Art Jett]

Before you buy the Snap-On wrench, check with Mac tools. I have the set from 3/8" thru 2" and they were a lot cheaper than Snap-On and just as good quality. My whole set was less than $1000.00.

 

[twoseater]

Thanks everyone - I did get the headers in and tighetned. They key was a combination of socket and open end. I couldn't get the snapon version as recommended but I did find a wrench at Sears called a cross force wrench. In essence, the ends are turned 90 degrees to each other. It was long enough for me to get enough force and the flat end made if comfortable. The open end seemed to be at just the right angle to get the job done.

I still asert that the allen socket in the bolts are worthless for tightening the bolts.


On the down side, I did dent two of the exhaust tubes somehow. The dents are on the side closest to the bolts. Hard to see and I'm not even sure how I did it. Could have been the underside of the wrench or with the socket. Anyway, I'm a bit of a perfectionist and am kind of bummed out about that. I'll always know they're there!!!!

bmototjoe - Not an aluminum head. Stage 8 bolts are pretty common for header installation (at least in my searching). People who have used them, love them as they don't loosen due to the locking mechanism. I'm hoping that since they are widely used, that they are OK for may application. I checked the package and I don't even know if its stainless or what grade they are. Nothing on the package about that but they have 6 tic marks on the head which I think signifies the grade?

Bill75 - that was what I was thinking of. I saw some at the auto store and decided it wouldn't be any better than an open end wrench. It would have hit the side of the exhaust tube. Thanks for steering me there!

Johnz - That looks like a great bolt in terms of being able to torque them down. How would they lock (like a Stage 8 bolt)? Too late for me, but looks like you would have no problems getting them tightened. I imagine the safetywire somehow keeps them from turning - just not sure how that would come together.

I'm a rookie at car work, and would like to thank all who post and contribute. While installing headers isn't the hardest thing in the world, its also not trivial for us rookies. I've found quite a bit of info which allowed me to get them in. I do have some tips and will post them later, hopefully, helping those that are about to start this!

 

[bmotojoe]

I’m happy to hear your patience prevailed in installing your headers! The reason I was concerned about installing Stainless hardware into Aluminum heads was of the two dissimilar metals between hardware and head material. Even at high temps cast iron is affected in the same way. I don’t care what anti-seize you use (Aluminum base or Copper Base) over time electrolysis is sure to begin because of the physical properties of the dissimilar metals. If you’ve ever seen the effects of electrolysis you know what I mean and if you haven’t the best way to describe what happens is a bad case of tooth decay with a nice shiny mercury filling left in the middle. It really doesn’t matter how strong your hardware is when this takes place.
Brian