State Farm will not give "agreed value" in writing on classic cars

[ctjackster]

"Also, I take exception to the comments made by 66 Red Rocket, when he said..."I Guess I Can Add Insurance Agents To My List Of Lawyers, Car Salesmen, And Weather People(they Have A Good Excuse, Its Only An Educated Guess), Of People That Tell Less Than The Truth." "

I too take exception to that comment. How dare he lump lawyers in with car salesmen, weathermen and insurance agents!

I think you have great things to say, and I appreciate hearing the insurance agent (for State Farm, no less) perspective. I am glad too that you seemed to have cleared up the issue of whether SF offers agreed value coverage, in a PA policy form or by way of special endorsement.

As for personal lines insurance agents, unfortunately, I suspect that the folks here have sometimes found that insurance agents themselves might not appreciate the difference between agreed value and stated value. And I mean no offense by this, but I have to just say, that when someone asks me if something is or is not covered under their insurance policy (I get that alot, unfortunately) my response is not "well what did your agent tell you when he placed the policy" but instead "well, what does the policy say, can I see a copy of it?" Now, if Mr. Ins. Co. Agent said something in writing that really expands the coverage, that might be relevant at some point waaaay down the line (like in court) but it likely won't convince the insurance company to pay beyond their policy obligation, at least in my experience.

 

[paul67]

FWIW, here in Canada we have a company that knows their stuff.

http://www.lant-ins.ca/

 

[JohnZ]

And I mean no offense by this, but I have to just say, that when someone asks me if something is or is not covered under their insurance policy (I get that alot, unfortunately) my response is not "well what did your agent tell you when he placed the policy" but instead "well, what does the policy say, can I see a copy of it?" Now, if Mr. Ins. Co. Agent said something in writing that really expands the coverage, that might be relevant at some point waaaay down the line (like in court) but it likely won't convince the insurance company to pay beyond their policy obligation, at least in my experience.

Well said, and an important distinction; my family was in the (casualty) insurance business for 70 years, and if I learned anything, it was this: an insurance policy is a contract between the insured and the carrier, and both parties have to meet the obligations and requirements laid out in that contract. If something isn't covered in the policy (contract), it's unlikely that the agent can override it verbally unless he has tremendous personal leverage with the carrier, and those days of personal relationships between agents and major carriers are pretty much history. Your agent can advise you, but if it isn't spelled out in the policy, the carrier isn't legally obligated to cover it.

I also agree with Larry - an enormous number of people are under-insured for their collector cars; they THINK they have one kind of coverage, but actually have a different kind of coverage - you don't want to find out that distinction the day your car is stolen or burns to the ground.

"Agreed Value" coverage also obligates the insured to review the value of the car periodically and contact the carrier to increase it if the car is appreciating; my policy automatically increases the coverage annually by a small percentage tied to the CPI, but I have my appraisals professionally updated every two years and submit them to my carrier for value adjustments, and they respond with a new declarations page; have never been denied a value increase, as it's documented. The price of updating appraisals is peanuts compared to the value of the cars; shame on me, and me alone, if I don't do it.

 

[ZRGator]

ctjackster and JohnZ.....excellent comments. The policy does rule. It is a contract. You both are obviously knowledgeable and, more importantly, understand that the final resposibility lies with the consumer to make sure he's gettin' the horse he bargained for. JohnZ, your additional comments about the days of personal relationships between the agent and the carrier are quite true. If you think they no longer exist between Big I guys and brokers with their carriers, you wouldn't believe how they've deteriorated between large companies with direct writers. However, I do know this, if I make statements (or my staff does) regarding coverages and they are documented, my company has a history of paying, but you can bet your butt it's
E & O time.
Finally, I cannot stress the point JohnZ made hard enough: "The price of updating appraisals is peanuts compared to the value of the cars; shame on me, and me alone, if I don't do it." JohnZ, you are as wise with your homework on insurance as you are (well, maybe not cause you're damn good on cars) on midyears.
All the rest of you guys reading this, you come here because you want to further your knowledge about your car and cars in general but you need to spend some time finding an agent that knows insurance, too. Spend some time and find a guy/gal you can talk to and from whom you can get straight answers. They're out there.

 

[c5vetter]

Gator, you are growing on me!

 

[ZRGator]

Gator, you are growing on me!

Hey Rick, I was wondering when you would check in on this. It's true, I grow on a lot of people, but fortunately there is an antibiotic you can take to clear it up!:L

 

[IH2LOSE]

Gator, you are growing on me!

Gator me too.

In no way do I think you are not a proffetional at what you do.And in no way do I indend to cause any ill feeling towards an insurance company.

I am just trying to share my knowledge of collector car insurance and all other insurances in life.I emplore folks to find an agent you TRUST and can speak freely with,And sit with him and make sure you FULLY understand your coverages. I am NO EXPERT by anymeans but I read all my freinds and neighbors policies who ask me and make my suggestion of what changes I recomend them to discuss with there agent.

Nothing to me is better then having my brother call me to question a wording change on his policy renual to see what happened to his coverage,(it means he is reading his dec page and his policy and understanding it.

Keep up the good work

 

[jimbo64]

For all of us who think that we have "agreed upon value" insurance with
State Farm, guess what, it ain't true. Spent the afternoon trying to find out exactly what coverage I had and found out they only will do stated value which can be a long way from "agreed " value. Have been with them for 49 years -conventional cars and thought that the c-2 was properly covered also.
Agent who is a personal friend called the head office and they would not give an agreed number even with an appraisal, blessing, kiss etc. you get the picture. If car is stolen, burned, totaled, then stated is an arbitrary call and this is how these things end up in court. Not where I would want to be. So, I guess that I'll be insurance shopping. What's the best out there for all of you guys and has anyone ever had to claim a total policy such as stolen or destroyed and had good results. One of those things we hope we never need but a good thing to check and make sure you have the insurance you think that you did. I don't.

Guys, Gals, Thanks for the education and the expert inputs. I now understand something that I apparently did not before. Thinking Hagerty
Bad things sometimes happen to good people and I like sleeping at night.

 

[paintdaddy]

I was trying to preach to every one about this last fall.I lost my 88 in an accident and almost got screwed by State Farm but after a little arguing I got my full amount.Legally they didnt have to but I wasnt about to explain that to them.I was paying on an agreed value policy for 12500.They wanted to give me 6900.I asked them why I was paying on a policy based on 12500 and they finally didnt argue anymore and cut my check.Beware and know the differences of agreed value and stated value.

 

[67HEAVEN]

Although the following link only applies to Ontario insurance policies, the theory applies everywhere.

http://www.vintagecarconnection.com/opcf_19a_definition.htm

If you have information about "agreed value" insurance riders (endorsements) for your state or province, you may wish to share the info with us.

 

[IH2LOSE]

Thanks Bob for that tidbit. As you may know I was away on vacation. Well while away a discustion ensued about collector car insurance came about with some snowbirds. (snowbird= retired person living in florida for the winter)


To make a long story short both contacted there agents,both were reasured there was no problem,I had both of them have there dec pages faxed to us in florida and i showed them why they were not covered. They then called there agent again with a very specific question " if my car burns to the ground how much will I get paid and will you put that on your letter head"

Needless to say there was a ton of back peddleing and alot of Ill have to call you back on that. In the end Both agents now better understand the product they are offering to there customers, and both snowbirds and one agent are now apply to hagerty for collector car coverage.

Also all people invoulved are useing there cars as collector cars and have no problems with the restictions.

And one of the coolest things is one fellow had an inflated price (and he was paying premiums on the inflated price) and there was NO way in the world he could have substantuated the value had he had a total loss. So he was actually trying to defraud the insurance company (in a total loss) and they were actually defrauding him because they never would have had to pay that price.

When I retire I may have to become a paid sales man for the companies selling the AGREED VALUE COVERAGES.