Stop me!..

[funkywinkerbean]

So, I swore I would never buy another one... My last vette purchase - a 1998 with all the bells and whistles, 6 speed and museum delivery.

Followed by 25 trips to the dealer, a transmission that made so much noise it drowned out the stereo (literally sounded like a "bucket of bolts" due to excessive "gear lash"- and an exhaust vibration (the dreaded "resonance") at 2500 RPMs that gave you a headache.

Dealer installed a new tranny (at no charge after rants and raves and threats from me) which was only marginally less noisy and I paid for a new new clutch when it wore out at 25K miles (stop and go commute traffic wore it out - no burn outs or dangerous shifts). Virtually every computer failed. Key fobs needed re-programming every week. Wind noise and leaks around the hatch. Tires were worn out at 25K miles.

There is more, but I will stop here.

Why am I now thinking of buying another one of these things?!

Oh, by the way, if I do decide to lay down 45 large for another, can anyone tell me if it is possible to "cherry pick" options like in the old days at GM, Ford and Chrysler? I ask this because, I know specifically what I want - a base model with just two specific options: electro-chromatic mirrors and the adjustable steering wheel.

In older days, you could pick and choose specific option items when you ordered from the factory - any experience here?

I must be crazy!

 

[JJS]

There was an ad in my local paper for a brand new 2004 CE Z06 yesterday for $45k.
It would be a nice drive back home for you, I'm sure....well, after the snow melts, anyway!

 

[OLDGOAT]

GM has the C6 options all bundled up so you can't really pick and choose. Most of the cars listed in dealer inventory now seem to be loaded up with junk like onstar and xm radio to name just a few. For those who think a vette needs this fluff I say more power to you.

I recall hearing something in this forum about a UAW work slowdown or similar about the time your car was built. What do you suppose the average wages of a high school grad at the bowling green plant is up to now? 85k? 120K. Of course, they are worth 8 or 10 bucks an hour. That's the union for you. Maybe you were the beneficiary of some "union solidarity" in the form of sabotage during this slowdown. I've seen other vette sites that actually fawn over these louts since they build the vette. Sorry the Mexican built trans was so poor. The source for the C6 tranny is the same.

If this happens with the C6 try invoking the lemon law and returning it. The good news is that modern manufacturing methods keeps reducing the amount of actual factory labor required to build a car. Robots don't belong to unions or engage in sabotage. Also, as we have seen in other postings a VERY large component of the vette is now built offshore and simply assembled at bowling green. To say the vette is "built" there seems inaccurate at this point.

quite a deal on that 04 z06 jjs.......from what I read it's not the equal of a base C6 with Z51.

thanks for the info on your C5. Anyone buying a C6 needs to watch quality VERY closely. Remember, this car is still assembled in the US and , as such, this makes its quality very suspect.

now that I think about it I really doubt all the UAW workers at bg have high school diplomas......well, what do you expect nowadays for over 100K plus fat benefits?

isn't it about time for a strike at bg now that the C6 is ramping up production?

 

[funkywinkerbean]

Vette Factory Workers...

You hit it right on the head.

When I was on the tour, I spoke with an engineer and a plant manager - the workers back in 98 were making $70K plus overtime!

and the "pace" of production was so slow that the workers had time to light a cigarette and take a few puffs between cars on the "line" - which just "crept" along - supposedly as we were told, to make sure that the product was "of the highest quality" - I beg to differ!

I would never have another of those standard transmissions. I understand that GM is on their third generation of tranny builders following the huge quality problem with my version. I will not have another standard, since commute traffic makes using the stick shift "cruel and unusual" and it wears out the clutch too!

If I get to the point of laying down the $45 large, I will do my best to try and get someone at GM to help me "cherry pick" the options I want.

I must say, though - factory tour and museum delivery is defintely a fun time - provided you have good weather to drive home in - I drove home through two days of a torrential downpour of rain and freezing rain - perhaps that was an omen!?

 

[Next One]

why electrochromic mirrors?

Funky,

Just curious, I can understand the telescoping steering wheel, to get a good driving position, altho that would be less important to me if it wasn't a stick-shift, but why the mirrors of all things?

The days of largely individual options are probably over -- the manufacturers prob save money by less total configurations to support, plus make more money by sticking everyone with options they wouldn't normally pay for! Now that we're all "used to it", why would they go back.

 

[funkywinkerbean]

Mirrors and Steering

These two options represent the two safety options which make my driving experience safer.

The mirrors, if you have used the electro-chromatic mirrors before, are wonderful at night - they automatically dimm your mirrors' reflectivity at night to prevent "night blinding glare" from headlights behind you. It is truly a great invention for anyone who travels at night.

The telescoping steering should be available on every car - and is even available on some economy cars! I am 6'2" and no seating/driving position is comfortable without either adjustable foot pedals or telescoping steering - in heaven, both are standard! Why these are "options" I do not understand. Like side airbags, they should be on all cars.

Which brings up the issue of why car companies don't simply offer "safety option" packages.

I am convinced (hope springs eternal) that if you enter the right code or speak to the right person, you can "cherry pick" options. This was commonly available in years past - just not advertised.

As usual, so much of the things we do in life depends upon who we interact with. Someone at GM knows how to do what I seek - it is just a matter of finding them and utilizing their "cherry picking protocol".

 

[Rob]

....interesting thread...

A couple of you have had some experiences that I've never heard of or experienced myself, either in a C5 or in the Corvette Assembly plant. You must have gone on a different tour than I did, and I've been to the plant several times during the C4 and C5 generations.

Funky,

So, I'm curious - answer your own question now. If you've had such a poor experience with your Corvette, why would you want to buy another one, and since you started this thread in the C6 forum, I assume the answer has something to do with the 2005 Corvette?

Oldgoat,

XM is not junk, nor is Onstar for that matter. It all depends on what you want and what your needs are.

When I lived in the Washington DC area, the radio stations down there suck. I hate rap, and I can only stomach so much country, classical and latino music for so long. If I went out and bought CDs of music I wanted to listen to, it would have cost me a fortune. I bought XM satellite radio for my truck and I've had it for over a year now. It's worth every penny of the subscription fee...ESPECIALLY if you do a lot of daily commuting back and forth to work and you have to sit in your car, in stop and go traffic for over an hour one way.

The same goes for Onstar. I've never had any personal interaction with the Onstar system, but I can understand that this could be an extremely valuable option for someone that uses their Corvette on a daily basis as their primary means of transportation, and they do a lot of commuting over long distances. It's peace of mind.

Last time I checked, you didn't have to purchase these options on a C6. It all depends on what you want a Corvette for. If you want a Corvette as a weekend autocrosser or racer, leave the XM and Onstar off the order sheet. If you plan on using the Vette as your primary means of transportation back and forth to work, those options, could prove to be very valuable and worth every penny.

Just my two cents...

 

[c5vetter]

Rob,

good points on XM/ONSTAR - unfortunately, most dealers load up the cars for their lots and if there are no allocations available you are stuck with whats available - personally, I've been in the DC area since 1986 and have never had any problems listening to the radio stations

 

[funkywinkerbean]

Everyones experiences and opinions are legitimate.

I did not have a bad time at the production facility - on the contrary, I enjoyed it. I was amazed at the number of workers who appeared to be almost idle because of the slow pace of the production line and the fact that the ratio of supervisors to workers was so high (1 to 5, I believe).

My issues with the C5 were likely based on the fact that it was a new vehicle and it as such had significant issues and problems. The tranny for instance, was a joke. After being told, "they all do that", I persevered and spoke with a tranny engineer at GM who told me that they did indeed have quality issues and that they were changing to a better quality component. He said they were even experimenting with a variety of fixes but that "gear lash" was hard to correct without changing the way the gears are made. The replacement was slowed by the fact that so many tranny replacements were scheduled and the fact that I had to work my way through the "they all do that" smoke screen.

I was sobered by the incessant trips to the dealer - who for the most part was cooperative (at least at first) but had to be reminded regularly of their responsibility. After the first dozen or so trips in, I began dealing with the regional representative - who was surprisingly cooperative!

Incidentally, I traded the vette in to my dealer for a Trailblazer. Except for 8 rear brake light assembly replacements in two years (they actually tried to get me to pay for the last three!), the vehicle was great.

Corvettes, like all cars, are machines made by people. If we could just remove the factory workers, and the sales people, and while we are at it, the politicians, and the....

 

[c5vetter]

Funk,

well, every Vette I have owned (knock on wood) - I have never had a lick of problem with - now, there were recalls, etc. but I never had problems such as you describe or others have said they encountered - now GM may lose me, depending on what the new Z06 turns out to be - I really don't like the looks of the C5.5 (yes, I don't believe it is truly that revolutionary/evolutionary/whatever)

 

[JAGSFAN]

hi funky

amelia island huh
well that is my old stomping grounds. i am very sure you know me if you have lived there long.
I now am in ohio and work for a chevy dealer. give me a call toll free 888-207-1865 ask for mike carr.
I will gladly help you with the vette idea and order process and answer all your ???;s.
heck i may even bring you the car than I can visit and play golf since there are so many courses on that little island.

MIKE

 

[funkywinkerbean]

Mike,

Amelia has changed quite a bit just in the past few years. Golf here is still wonderful (except for afternoon tee times in the middle of August).

In between your various duties at your chevy dealer, perhaps you could review my question: can indeed a customer "cherry pick" options on the corvette or any car they order? I know this was possible years ago and common sense tells you that it still should be possible, but will GM or any company do it nowadays? We have on one hand a virtual obsession with "customer service" - or what is probably better labeled as "the perception of customer satisfaction". And on the other an obsession with cost control and profit. Case in point: I can't even get an oil change at a dealer now without receiving a request from a service department employee to "complete and send in the customer service survey I will be receiving in the mail - and make sure I rate the service as "all 5's" - and at least one phone call from a "customer service representative" who wants "just a few minutes of my time to conduct a survey about the service I received". We have obviously gone way to far into this type of "customer satisfaction".

When I responded to the phone call from the call center clone who started asking me the inane questions, with, "I would rate the service I received better if no one would bother me or ask me to rate them". I was told there was no such question on their survey and that they did not have the ability to include such comments.

Like they say, "perception is everything".

 

[slapshot]

Corvettes, like all cars, are machines made by people. If we could just remove the factory workers, and the sales people, and while we are at it, the politicians, and the....

add lawyers to the list and that's a near perfect operation.

 

[Rob]

Mike,

Amelia has changed quite a bit just in the past few years. Golf here is still wonderful (except for afternoon tee times in the middle of August).

In between your various duties at your chevy dealer, perhaps you could review my question: can indeed a customer "cherry pick" options on the corvette or any car they order? I know this was possible years ago and common sense tells you that it still should be possible, but will GM or any company do it nowadays? We have on one hand a virtual obsession with "customer service" - or what is probably better labeled as "the perception of customer satisfaction". And on the other an obsession with cost control and profit. Case in point: I can't even get an oil change at a dealer now without receiving a request from a service department employee to "complete and send in the customer service survey I will be receiving in the mail - and make sure I rate the service as "all 5's" - and at least one phone call from a "customer service representative" who wants "just a few minutes of my time to conduct a survey about the service I received". We have obviously gone way to far into this type of "customer satisfaction".

When I responded to the phone call from the call center clone who started asking me the inane questions, with, "I would rate the service I received better if no one would bother me or ask me to rate them". I was told there was no such question on their survey and that they did not have the ability to include such comments.

Like they say, "perception is everything".

This confuses me. Why is a company that is trying to be concerned about customer satisfaction a bad thing? If you don't want to be contacted, give the dealership a false phone number.

You had bad experiences with your Corvette, the dealership is asking you for your customer service experiences at their dealership...if it were me, I would take the opportunity to answer the questions, and tell GM what you think of their product and their dealer service departments.

You say we've gone to far into this customer satisfaction. Well, ok...Chevrolet dealership have a reputation for having crappy service quality. Everyone raves about Toyota, Lexus, Infiniti dealer-service departments and the quality of service. So, if Chevrolet is trying to improve their quality of service, how is that a bad thing? If you think they've gone too far, then how would you implement a customer satisfaction improvement and query the customer properly in order to acquire the feedback and suggestions you need for the improvement?

The way I look at it, if you go to a doctor, and say, "I have a headache", if that doctor didn't ask me questions to get more details from me, I'd walk out of his office and look for better customer service elsewhere.

Help me understand where you're coming from here....

 

[JAGSFAN]

add lawyers to the list and that's a near perfect operation.

Now wait a second. REMOVE SALESPEOPLE??? Have you ever bought something from someone you didnt like?. The days of the shady salespeople are over I will say that. With the customer service surveys Gm does it weeds out the bad ones. Dealers now get paid extra to make sure customers are happy and the Salepeople start off the buying experience.
Needless to say you have never dealt with a salesperson like myself. I am the type that overtakes care of my customers. I take such good care that they bring me wine and many other gifts.
Lawyers I agree get rid of em then all the people that want to sue a car dealership has noone to go to because usually they are in the wrong anyway.
I recently sold a truck to someone who after two days decide they didnt want it and brought it back for no reason at all. Not to mention they hit the front end and dented it. They threatened with an attorney. We took the truck back cause car dealers have a bad reputation anyway so why fight it. We would lose in court anyway since we are a dealer.\
NEEDLESS TO SAY YOU HIT A NERVE.

 

[JAGSFAN]

This confuses me. Why is a company that is trying to be concerned about customer satisfaction a bad thing? If you don't want to be contacted, give the dealership a false phone number.

You had bad experiences with your Corvette, the dealership is asking you for your customer service experiences at their dealership...if it were me, I would take the opportunity to answer the questions, and tell GM what you think of their product and their dealer service departments.

You say we've gone to far into this customer satisfaction. Well, ok...Chevrolet dealership have a reputation for having crappy service quality. Everyone raves about Toyota, Lexus, Infiniti dealer-service departments and the quality of service. So, if Chevrolet is trying to improve their quality of service, how is that a bad thing? If you think they've gone too far, then how would you implement a customer satisfaction improvement and query the customer properly in order to acquire the feedback and suggestions you need for the improvement?

The way I look at it, if you go to a doctor, and say, "I have a headache", if that doctor didn't ask me questions to get more details from me, I'd walk out of his office and look for better customer service elsewhere.

Help me understand where you're coming from here....

ACTUALLY IF YOU READ THE REPORTS TOYOTA IS DROPPING IN CUSTOMER SERVICE AND GM IS MOVING UP THE LADDER.
CUSTOMER SERVICE IS WHAT IT IS ALL ABOUT THESE DAYS. WE WANT TO SELL EVERYONE YOU KNOW A VEHICLE AND WE CANT DO THAT UNLESS YOU ARE 100 PERCENT SATISFIED. YOU WILL TELL ONE PERSON HOW UNHAPPY YOU ARE AND THEY WILL TELL TEN MORE AND SO ON AND SO ON.
BUT IF YOU ARE 100 PERCENT HAPPY DO YOU BRAG ABOUT IT????

 

[Eric]

Now wait a second. REMOVE SALESPEOPLE??? Have you ever bought something from someone you didnt like?.

You have a point to an extent. I've purchased two brand new Chevys (90 Z24, 95 Monte Carlo) and in both instances, the salesperson was pretty nice and the sales managers weren't so bad either. Some dealers, however, still have the "evil sales manager" who I encountered last year when purchasing my Grand Am. The salesperson was really nice and accomodating but the sales manager was enough of a jerk that my wife (an incredibly level-headed person) said "I don't need this" and walked out. The guy had the nerve to ask what was wrong and I told him his condescending attitude sucked. I only ended up buying the car when he handed my file to the other sale manager and I paid what I said I would for the car. Oh, they did send me a survey and I laid it all out in detail.

As an aside, the service I have received from my local Chevy dealer has been outstanding for 10 years running. But as with anything, we all have an idea of what is good, acceptable, and crappy service. I guess that's what surveys are for.

 

[OLDGOAT]

hey jagsfan, you sound like one of those salespersons who earn their money by working at customer satisfaction. I've done the same in selling situations in high tech. It's rewarding to have satisfied customers and really all it takes is knowledge and follow through. Frankly, I am planning my purchase through the internet to avoid salespeople at the dealer. This is because folks like you are the exception and not the rule....unfortunately. Maybe I'll walk in and see if I can get lucky and meet a professional salesperson at my gm dealer. regards, goat

 

[OLDGOAT]

rob, your points are well taken. One man's junk is another's treasure. I should have qualified it by saying that "I" didn't need such options. Some do and that's fine. The point that cuts through all the opinions , though, is that it seems all of us wish GM would allow more flexibility in selection of options and not force us to accept large bundles of stuff to get the item or two we might want. My wish list is short....Z51 and 1SA. It's true that most cars coming to dealers now seem to be VERY loaded up though I have seen a few in inventory with just my two requirements and nothing more. I'm planning to wait for '06 so will see if any changes to options are made for next years offering. John ( aka oldgoat )

 

[Rob]

rob, your points are well taken. One man's junk is another's treasure. I should have qualified it by saying that "I" didn't need such options. Some do and that's fine. The point that cuts through all the opinions , though, is that it seems all of us wish GM would allow more flexibility in selection of options and not force us to accept large bundles of stuff to get the item or two we might want. My wish list is short....Z51 and 1SA. It's true that most cars coming to dealers now seem to be VERY loaded up though I have seen a few in inventory with just my two requirements and nothing more. I'm planning to wait for '06 so will see if any changes to options are made for next years offering. John ( aka oldgoat )

I understand what you're saying. However, there really isn't an automotive manufacturer that does that kind of customizing anymore, with the exceptions of high-end exotic car manufacturers like Mercedes (Maybach), Bentley, Aston Martin, and in some cases, Ferrari. Take a look at the time and cost of manufacturing cars by companies such as these, as compared to companies like BMW, GM, Daimler Chrysler, etc.

There is a reason why that level of customization is no longer present. It's because of manufacturing time, and in the manufacturing world, time is money.

That's my unedumacated guess by a young "whippersnapper" such as me self. :L