strange problem, need help!!

[BarryK]

I love it when someone talks so technical.LOL But yes that is what I was talking about. When you let off it will pull down and cause symptoms you discribed if the bolt is not tight.

yes, i know, I'm just full of techinical industry terms!
LOL

one my car that that differential mounting custion (yes, it's the proper name of the part - I looked it up in the LICS cat.) is worn and shrunken. I know this and it had been causing a slight rubbing on the tunnel housing during hard acceleration when i first got the car so until I got a replacement piece my mechanic shimed it up. I did check that bolt and it is nice and tight. This is definately a different sound than i was getting previously through when the drive shaft was hitting the housing.
of course, maybe it's hard to check that bolt when the car is on the ground and i'll check it again when I can get the car up on a jack or on a lift. I got a replacment cushion now anyway so I need to get it installed and i'll make sure the bolt is tight when they do that.

 

[BarryK]

Barry, sorry man, my computer server sometimes kicks me off and I don't realize that my post was not complete. I think the jist of my post was that you are now the primary mechanic of this vehicle you may want to invest in some tools. There is nothing that you can do to this car/vette that will hurt it. If you do you learn from you mistakes as we all have. I started last year in the same boat that you are.. Sears sells a 1/2 ton jack and two jack stands for around 100.00. Also they have an excellent set of tools in a plastic 4 drawer set for around 200.00 right now. Get ya a good jack and stands and post some pics and I'm sure there will be someone here on the great CAC that can help.. Just be careful man.. use the jack stands b/c the best jacks can fail.. I like to use 4 stands and place the jack under the front cross member to take some of the strain off the front end.... I guess I too need to go buy another set of stands so I can support the front of the frame at the ends when I have it up like that... Dave..

Hi Dave
oh you don't know me very well if you think I can't hurt my car by working on it......
i've learned to never underestimate my own ability to completely screw something up royaly!
I refuse out of sheer embarrassment to even mention the STUPID, STUPID, STUPID thing i already managed to do while looking over the car for this problem that caused damage that is going to require my bodyshop guy to repair!

But, as you say, i'll learn from my mistakes and i DO want to learn more about repairing what i can on the car. I'm going to see if I can possibly get to sears today to get some of those tools like the jack and stands. If not, it will be tomorrow hopefully.

 

[Tyler Townsley]

Hmmmm frame off? I guess they ignored the suspension. If the cushion is as you described I would bet the strut rod bushings are shot too. Also check the lower shock mounting points as they will show increased wear when the other part of the system gets worn.

Its just beginning Barry.

Tyler

 

[BarryK]

The car had a frame off resto? Check to see if one of the body mounts is loose. Posiible it could be and causing the car to shift going down the road.

actually, just a couple of weeks ago i happened to be under the car and looked at the rear body mount bolts.
the 2 rear ones just behind each rear wheel were so loose I could turn then with my fingers!
i tightened both of them but not knowing where the location of the other body mount bolts were at the time i couldn't check the others but last time the car was in the shop about 2 weeks ago I had the guy check all the others and make sure they are all tight.
i even went and checked the the two rear ones myself yesterday but they seem fine as I already thought of them

 

[BarryK]

Hmmmm frame off? I guess they ignored the suspension. If the cushion is as you described I would bet the strut rod bushings are shot too. Also check the lower shock mounting points as they will show increased wear when the other part of the system gets worn.

Its just beginning Barry.

Tyler

as soon as i can get the car up onn stands or on a rack I'm going to check EVERYTHING for signs of wear and every single nut and bolt for tightness.

just beginning?? Gee, you are just full of great news, aren't you??
actually, it's not just beginning. it began almost as soon as i bought the car and just never stopped.

even though it was framed-off, it was the previous owner who did the work over a 4-year period is my understanding. Even though the car looked great (everything looked brand new and so clean underneath it you could eat off the entire underside) and drove fine when i was looking at it for purchase, it now seems that this guy didn't know what he was doing as something else is going wrong almost weekly. Everytime I turn around it's something new. the hard part is that since I'm not familiar with old cars and working on them, everytime something new crops up I usually don't even have a clue of where to start looking for the problem or what the problem could be. it could be something very, very minor or something very major and not knowing what level of problem i'm running into becomes very frustrating each time.
Thank god for this forum but with my oh-so-wonderful grasp of technical terms and trying to describe symptoms I know it's hard to have others try to figure out what the problem(s) could be.
I know everyones car is slightly different but we all know our own cars best and at times a problem can be only decribed as "it feels funny or different than it did before" without always being able to accurately explain what makes it feel different.

 

[youwish2bme]

Barry don't dispair man.. There is loads of information here on the forum.. Cheer up man.. It's only money... Dave..

 

[JohnZ]

Barry, from your description of the symptoms ("floaty" feel at the rear, changes direction when accelerating/decelerating), the first thing I'd look for is lost shims at one of the rear trailing arm front bushings, in the frame pocket (the upper illustration of the two posted earlier). When the shims depart, it allows the front of the trailing arm to slide back and forth laterally on the pivot bolt, which changes toe-in on that side, which makes it feel "floaty" and insecure in a turn, and makes it want to steer back and forth under accel/decel.

 

[BarryK]

Barry, from your description of the symptoms ("floaty" feel at the rear, changes direction when accelerating/decelerating), the first thing I'd look for is lost shims at one of the rear trailing arm front bushings, in the frame pocket (the upper illustration of the two posted earlier). When the shims depart, it allows the front of the trailing arm to slide back and forth laterally on the pivot bolt, which changes toe-in on that side, which makes it feel "floaty" and insecure in a turn, and makes it want to steer back and forth under accel/decel.

Thanks John. As soon as I can get the car up i'll make that the first thing to check on.

If it does turn out to be that I lost any shims how do i determine the correct number that should be on there or how much I need to shim?
Is it a set amount or does it differ and how to figure that out?

 

[Ron Miller]

Thanks John. As soon as I can get the car up i'll make that the first thing to check on.

If it does turn out to be that I lost any shims how do i determine the correct number that should be on there or how much I need to shim?
Is it a set amount or does it differ and how to figure that out?

If you've lost shims, you'll have to have a new alignment from a shop who knows & understands these cars. Basically the number of shims required is whatever amount it takes to fully pack the space between the rear trailing arm & the frame, I believe. The alignment shop should take care of this (if they know what they're doing, thus the importance of getting a shop familiar with these suspensions), and I believe it's usually best that the final shim be driven into place snugly so as to fully fill the space. I'll leave that to the shop, though.

 

[BarryK]

Ron

thanks for the info.
If I find I neeed shims I'll have to find a good alignment shop.

Ok, stupid question for you and JohnZ now...........if i don't know how many shims there were to begin with, how do i know if i lost any when i get under the car to look? Will the trailing arms that John mentioned actually be loose enough for me to move by my hand if I lost shims or is there another way to determine if I lost any?

 

[Ron Miller]

If you've lost shims, the trailing arms should have a little "play" or looseness at the front where they attach in the frame. You should also be able to move them laterally a small amount by hand, though it will take some effort to do so. I would also expect that if you've lost one shim, you've lost several or all and would be fairly easy to see.

John may have further info.

 

[BarryK]

thanks for the info Ron

 

[ctjackster]

Barry, I hope - would like to think - expect that this problem will be readily apparent and resolveable (hint, there should be nothing back there which should be "loose and turnable with your fingers"). You deserve a break, and a car that can be trusted to put the key in and go without fear. You will get there.

 

[tlong]

BarryK,

I have followed your stories about your baby (Rosemary's?) and feel for you. I drove a '63 for 8 years. The most obscure problems always surfaced at the exact wrong times. I finally herded all the cats together for years of fun. You need to get straight on a few things it seems.

It's 40 years old. Stuff breaks.

The real challenge is now apparent to you, that is fix it or pay to have it fixed. The reward is when it all works at one time. But expect that to change frequently. The frustration you feel is offset by the crowds it attracts at the gas pump. And the satisfaction of NOT GIVING UP!

Are you worthy?


BarryK when all is well I think you'll understand the reason you bought it in the first place.

Tim

 

[BarryK]

Barry, I hope - would like to think - expect that this problem will be readily apparent and resolveable (hint, there should be nothing back there which should be "loose and turnable with your fingers"). You deserve a break, and a car that can be trusted to put the key in and go without fear. You will get there.

Hi CT

unfortunately, this car has been ANYTHING BUT a car to be trusted.


I have an appointment at a shop tomorrow morning to get it up on a rack to look underneath her and check everything out. At the same time we are also going to replace the differential cushion that we already knew needed replacing anyway and ordered.
After we hopefully find the problem on this issue I'm getting a nice hydryic jack and stands to in the future I can get under the car myself to check things out when I need. While I'm at the shop tomorrow with it up in the air I'll be studying the underneath so in the future I'll have an idea of what i'm looking at. It's really about time I start to learn this stuff for myself as much as i can.

 

[tlong]

That's the spirit! If it was easy everybody would have one. This is the bonding period.

 

[BarryK]

BarryK,

I have followed your stories about your baby (Rosemary's?) and feel for you. I drove a '63 for 8 years. The most obscure problems always surfaced at the exact wrong times. I finally herded all the cats together for years of fun. You need to get straight on a few things it seems.

It's 40 years old. Stuff breaks.

The real challenge is now apparent to you, that is fix it or pay to have it fixed. The reward is when it all works at one time. But expect that to change frequently. The frustration you feel is offset by the crowds it attracts at the gas pump. And the satisfaction of NOT GIVING UP!

Are you worthy?


BarryK when all is well I think you'll understand the reason you bought it in the first place.

Tim

Hi Tim

great words, thanks - and all very true.
I do know that I can't expect a 40 year old car to not break. They are going to be fairly high maintance. My frustration level has been more on the side of not being able to find qualified people to fix it rather than the fact that something has gone wrong - although I'm not too thilled when something does go wrong of course!
Obviously i don't like having to always be shelling out big bucks to someone else and be dependent on someone each time something goes wrong- which seems to be a lot for me so far - so i'm going to try to start leaning how to do repairs myself. at least the more relatively simple ones for now.

And yes, as frustrating as some days with the car has been, the pleasure of the crowds at the gas pumps and the car shows and the attention it gets as I'm driving it down the street does take that frustration level away.

I don't forget the reason I love the car and why I bought it, but there are some days I have my doubts anyway........
:L

 

[76texvette]

I went to your web site.....nice looking car!!!! You might send some pictures of the rear end.....

 

[BarryK]

I went to your web site.....nice looking car!!!! You might send some pictures of the rear end.....

Hi 76

thanks for the kind words.

i'll have her up on a rack tomorrow and i'm going to try to get some pics of the rear suspension than so if we can't find anything while it's on the rack i'll have the pics to post.

 

[tlong]

A fellow knew these cars and fixed mine with shims. Zora designed this as a racing rear end with advanced settings for different conditions. I bet it's something very obvious. This design was used in '63-82, therefore a bunch of squirelly vettes been fixed.

I wish there was a decent side pipe for a c4. They look so right on yours. Hail Zora.