strange problem, need help!!

[BarryK]

I wish there was a decent side pipe for a c4. They look so right on yours. Hail Zora.

I've seen a C4's with sidepipes that looked really sharp.
If I had a C4 I'd seriously consider them
That actually might happpen in about a year. Since we got our '65 my wife is now a big Vette fan also and she wants a C4.
We actually started looking around for a C4 about 6 weeks ago and looked at a few including a '96 LT1 but we just can't spare the money right now. One Vette purchase this year was PLENTY against the budget - two Vettes this year just isn't going to happen. We are hoping to be able to get a C4 next year for her. I'd love to make it a ZR-1 ot a '96 LT4 but she can only drive an automatic so I guess it will have to be a standard LT1 (not that I'm complaining!!)

 

[JohnZ]

Thanks John. As soon as I can get the car up i'll make that the first thing to check on.

If it does turn out to be that I lost any shims how do i determine the correct number that should be on there or how much I need to shim?
Is it a set amount or does it differ and how to figure that out?

There's no "set" number; the shim pack on each side of the bushing is determined by setting the rear toe-in on an alignment rack; when the machine says the toe-in is set correctly, the shim pack is correct. An alignment shop familiar with Corvettes will have no problem with it.

With radial tires, the rear toe-in should be set at 1/16" total toe (1/32" per side, split exactly the same on both sides across the thrust centerline).

 

[BarryK]

There's no "set" number; the shim pack on each side of the bushing is determined by setting the rear toe-in on an alignment rack; when the machine says the toe-in is set correctly, the shim pack is correct. An alignment shop familiar with Corvettes will have no problem with it.

With radial tires, the rear toe-in should be set at 1/16" total toe (1/32" per side, split exactly the same on both sides across the thrust centerline).

John

great info as always, a big thanks!

It will be up on the rack tomorrow so we will check the shims first thing before anything else.

 

[Vette66AirCoupe]

Barry,

Beg, borrow or steal. Run, do not walk to Sears. You MUST buy a floor jack and stands or I'm going to revoke your Vette ownership privledges! I've seen your Vette and she deserves it! How many nights have you gone to bed wondering what the heck the underside of your ride looks like? This has got to end! BUY THIS SETUP! Trust me, you'll soon see that it was a great use of a C note. Besides, it should be minimum required equipment for any Vette owner. Good luck tomorrow, I'll be pulling for you! I hope it's something very minor!



Craftsman 3 ton Hydraulic Floor Jack with Stands

Jack and two 3 ton stands feature a Steel Housing with backed enamel finish. Jack has 4 steel castors and a stick main handle.

Sears item #00950134000
Mfr. model #50134
​

​

$99.88
Reg. $119.99
Save $20.11
While quantities last



Link--->Craftsman 3 ton Hydraulic Floor Jack with Stands at sears.com



PS: I have this jack and stands, very nice stuff for the price.

 

[Gerry]

Barry,
Two years ago I bought my 67 BB and had the same symptoms. It turned out to be a broken ear which locates the frame to the rear suspension. In the process of buying and welding two new ears on I decided to totally restore the entire front and rear suspensions. It took about two months of work and about 2-3K for parts (all high perf and much better than original). The car has performed absolutely wonderfully ever since and I drive the BEJESUS out of it (20,000 miles) including drag racing. What I am saying is that these are not that complicated and once you fix them right they should stay right for a good bit of time and with regular driving and maintenance you will be rewarded with a pleasure that you don't get with modern cars even high buck supercars.

Best regards,
Gerry

PS Warm it up then HAMMER it!!

 

[BarryK]

Barry,

Beg, borrow or steal. Run, do not walk to Sears. You MUST buy a floor jack and stands or I'm going to revoke your Vette ownership privledges! I've seen your Vette and she deserves it! How many nights have you gone to bed wondering what the heck the underside of your ride looks like? This has got to end! BUY THIS SETUP! Trust me, you'll soon see that it was a great use of a C note. Besides, it should be minimum required equipment for any Vette owner. Good luck tomorrow, I'll be pulling for you! I hope it's something very minor!



Craftsman 3 ton Hydraulic Floor Jack with Stands

Jack and two 3 ton stands feature a Steel Housing with backed enamel finish. Jack has 4 steel castors and a stick main handle.

Sears item #00950134000
Mfr. model #50134
​

​

$99.88
Reg. $119.99
Save $20.11
While quantities last



Link--->Craftsman 3 ton Hydraulic Floor Jack with Stands at sears.com



PS: I have this jack and stands, very nice stuff for the price.

Terry
thanks for the link.
funny, I was just on the Sears website last night for a short time trying to figure out what would be the best tool set to start with and a decent tool chest. I meant to look at the jacks and stands also last night but didn't get around to it so i appreciate the info!
Besides the jack and stands I really need the tools as the only ones i have are my Dad's old set that must be 30-35 years old. They are also Craftman but a number are now missing from the set and there is a lot of stuff just now in it as it was a pretty basic set and the tool chest definatly needs upgrading too. It's the "old fashion" type chest with the top that opens and a single lift out try on top for the small items and a larger area under the try for the bulkier tools.
It was fine for basic things around the house like if I had to put up shelves or replace a screw in something but not quite up to the task of starting to work on a car.

i'll get the jack, stands, and tools! Really I will!!! Please, please, please don't revoke my Vette privledges!

 

[BarryK]

Barry,
Two years ago I bought my 67 BB and had the same symptoms. It turned out to be a broken ear which locates the frame to the rear suspension. In the process of buying and welding two new ears on I decided to totally restore the entire front and rear suspensions. It took about two months of work and about 2-3K for parts (all high perf and much better than original). The car has performed absolutely wonderfully ever since and I drive the BEJESUS out of it (20,000 miles) including drag racing. What I am saying is that these are not that complicated and once you fix them right they should stay right for a good bit of time and with regular driving and maintenance you will be rewarded with a pleasure that you don't get with modern cars even high buck supercars.

Best regards,
Gerry

PS Warm it up then HAMMER it!!

Gerry

When i got the car it had completed a frame-off about 500 miles previously.
I'm hoping all my problems so far are only getting the bugs out from that frame-off and eventually I will get her to a point that I'm enjoying her more than repairing her problems. With everyones help on here i'm sure I will.

PS: with all the luck (bad) I've been having with her lately though, PLEASE don't use the word HAMMER around her.....
:L

 

[Gerry]

Ok, let me know what the problem turns out to be. Take car and good luck.

Best regards,
Gerry

 

[BarryK]

UPDATE:

I took the car in to the shop today and we think my mechanic found the problem in about 5 seconds! in fact, the lift wasn't even finished going up yet when he found it but it was definately something I wouldn't have been able to determine with the car sitting on the ground in my garage.
As the lift was going up he was checking the rear wheels and the left rear (drivers side) wheel seemed "loose". you could grab the wheel and move it back and forth, kind of like being able to tilt it up and down. there was a good 1/4" to 1/2" of play I estimate. the other wheels didn't move like that at all.
after looking under the car at everything else (and at the same time replacing the worn out differential cushion) he didn't see anything else that looked wrong or loose so he thinks the wheel movement is bad bearings.
Since I don't know if the previous owner of the car replaced these bearings during the frame-off he feels we should replace them now and if they were replaced it must have been a poor job at the time. he is actually going to do the bearings on both rear wheels.
With the amount of play and movement that the wheel showed, i think this has to be the problem i was experiencing. that amount of play would definately be enough to make me feel it as i was driving i think.

Sorry, i wasn't able to get any pics to post while i was under the car today. I went to the shop after i left the dentist office to get a couple fillings replaced and with the anagesia (sp) they gave me i wasn't thinking straight so I forgot the camera at home.
Thinking about it now, I really shouldn't have driven the car at all that soon after my appointment anyway so i'm just glad nothing happened. It wasn't TOO bad but i don't like to drive at all with ANYTHING in my system.

 

[Vette66AirCoupe]

Barry,

After reading all of this I feel like I need to ask the forum a question. What is your definition of a frame off restoration? :confused

 

[BarryK]

Barry,

After reading all of this I feel like I need to ask the forum a question. What is your definition of a frame off restoration? :confused

Boy, I'd sure like to know that also!!!
I'm beginning to wonder if all the previous oner did was take the body off, clean the frame and put it body back without actually doing anything else.
same with the motor. I wonder if he just disassebled it, painted the block to make it look good and put it back together without even knowing what he was doing.

i mean geez, for a 'frame-off' car i'm sure running into a lot of problem areas and issues that I judge as a bit more than just "bugs to work out".

 

[maxrevs85]

What is your definition of a frame off restoration? :confused [/QUOTE]
Seeing that the question has been posed, Have you spoke with the guy that did the frame-off since your purchase, did you buy it locally.
I love the car , it is a one year that I really have always liked.

 

[BarryK]

What is your definition of a frame off restoration? :confused

Seeing that the question has been posed, Have you spoke with the guy that did the frame-off since your purchase, did you buy it locally.
I love the car , it is a one year that I really have always liked.[/QUOTE]


I don't know the previous owner.
I bought the car from a specialty vette shop who is also associated with an excellent Corvette restoration shop. I know the shop does some of the highest restorations available but they did NOT do the frame-off on my car. as i understand it the previous owner did the work himself over a 4-year period than after it was finished he traded the car in to this shop for a Big Block midyear. Unfortunately we have no records of anything. i asked when I bought the car and he previous owner kept no records or reciets of anything at all from the restoration. he didn't even take any pictures of it in progress!
Next time I buy a retored car i'm buying one from 67Heaven as i know he at least loves to document everything!


thanks, I love the car and the year too. it's one i've wanted since i was 12 years old. I just wish this particular one didn't cause me so much headaches.

 

[ctjackster]

Barry,

After reading all of this I feel like I need to ask the forum a question. What is your definition of a frame off restoration? :confused

In defense of poor Barry, I too own a 65 L76 that was the subject of a "frame off" restoration commissioned/paid for by a previous owner, in 1999. I have the pictures to prove it, lots of them, as well as receipts proving the wisdom (yet again) of letting a previous owner pay for the frame off resto, since THAT guy (in my car's case he is two parties removed from me - one famous vette reseller and then one individual owner) came out waaay behind on recouping the costs of the car plus the resto.

However, like Barry I should use the term "frame off resto" with an asterix, since it sure seems like I am forever putting things right - it was not an "NCRS-job", is what I really mean (for instance, the car went in and came out with a 65-66 BB hood, a mid-80s Holley "Street Avenger" carb, etc.) It would not suprise me in the least if a wear item like a wheel bearing went south on me tomorrow, and even the tightest frame off's might not involve a gratuitous wheel bearing replacement.

 

[maxrevs85]

Barry I understand your situation....Mine was a question of curiosity , I did a complete frame off on 68 chevelle SS. I was way to picky , but the only way I know how. I didnt own my 85 mor then a moth when it went thru a complete suspension and drive train rebuild. And yep i bought a new Jack and Jackstands.

 

[JohnZ]

Barry,

After reading all of this I feel like I need to ask the forum a question. What is your definition of a frame off restoration? :confused

Unfortunately, there are as many definitions for "body-off restoration" as there are folks who do them, with a wide range of budgets, methods, and ultimate goals. I'm probably at the extreme end - I've done seven of them over the last 30 years, and my formula is to disassemble the car down to every last part and to restore, refurbish, or replace every single part as it goes back together so it's a "correct" new car when it's done. You don't make any money (which isn't my objective) doing them this way, but it's the "right" way for me; I do them for myself, to my (NCRS) standard, for personal satisfaction, then DRIVE them.

 

[BarryK]

Unfortunately, there are as many definitions for "body-off restoration" as there are folks who do them, with a wide range of budgets, methods, and ultimate goals. I'm probably at the extreme end - I've done seven of them over the last 30 years, and my formula is to disassemble the car down to every last part and to restore, refurbish, or replace every single part as it goes back together so it's a "correct" new car when it's done. You don't make any money (which isn't my objective) doing them this way, but it's the "right" way for me; I do them for myself, to my (NCRS) standard, for personal satisfaction, then DRIVE them.

John

I would consider your way of restoration the proper way and the way I would like to think I would do it also but i'm sure everyone is different plus other contraints people run against like time and money - especially money.

 

[BarryK]

new update:

on my way to pick up my wife from work tonight I stopped by the shop to check on the progress on BABY and the rear end bearing issue.
it turns out that during the restoration the bearing were redone but not properly.
My mechanic said it looks like the bearings had previously run a groove into the shaft creating a ridge at the end of the shaft by the hub. He showed me where it was. When they replaced the bearings they didn't clean up the shaft properly to remove this ridge and the bearings didn't press onto the shaft far enough. since that time the driving of the car allowed the new bearing to rub against this ridge grinding it away a little at a time until the bearing actually moved the rest of the way to the edge of the shaft where they belonged to begin with. This movement is now what cause the looseness I felt when i was driving. This is on the drivers side. On the passenger side rear wheel the bearings and shaft were fine but when they rebuilt that side during the restoration they didn't reseat the seal correctly and the bearing seal was leaking.
He is redoing both sides completely so they are even, new, and correct with (hopefully!!!!) no more worries.

While the car is in the shop, i'm having him replace the intake manifold gasket as i've been having oil leakage out of it since day one and also replace the power valve in the carb as it's been suggested to me that it very well may be blown from all the backfires created from the distributor, timing, idle issue problem. Actually, he told me that it was less for him to purchase an entire carb rebuild kit instead of the two parts he needed (power valve and gasket) seperately so he is actually pretty much going to go thru with a whole carb rebuild.

I'm praying that these repairs will hold me for a while until the next problem wants to appear.

 

[c5vetter]

Barry,

sorry to hear of your continuing problems! LADY is back to Tony on Thursday to get ready for Windsor!

 

[Ron Miller]

Barry,

After reading all of this I feel like I need to ask the forum a question. What is your definition of a frame off restoration? :confused

The following came from a post I made on another forum, but I believe it applies here as well regarding the widely varying "frame-off restorations" I've seen over the years . . .

"The small-block cars handle great when properly restored, set up, and equipped with late model radial tires. I would venture to say they would outperform 80-85% of the modern cars on the road when they're in proper condition.

That said, they're also 35-40 years old on the average, and very few I've seen have been properly restored, set up, and equipped. That's why you see so many people having so many problems on this and similar forums."

Frame-off has a broad range of interpretation, and depends upon who's doing the interpreting, it seems!

:eyerole