4LT GS RoadsterUAW President Bob King got an early lump of coal in his Christmas stocking from Michigan Republican Gov. Rick Snyder last week when Snyder agreed to support right-to-work legislation.
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UAW stunned by Michigan right-to-work bills
- Thread starter 6 Shooter
- Start date
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- #2
I don't know how badly this will effect the UAW.. The reason I say this is I KNOW from experience. California is a right to work state. At the City level, employee's are given a choice, join the union that represents the classification of your employment (usually IBEW or SEIU), or the employee is required to PAY the the same $$ as union dues to the unions.
The reason is that the unions represent their members as well as non-members during negotiations. The union will represent non-union members, if requested, during employee disciplinary actions.
I asked if that wasn't the same thing as a "Closed Shop" and I was told.... NO because employee's are not required to JOIN the UNION!!
:eek
Bud
The reason is that the unions represent their members as well as non-members during negotiations. The union will represent non-union members, if requested, during employee disciplinary actions.
I asked if that wasn't the same thing as a "Closed Shop" and I was told.... NO because employee's are not required to JOIN the UNION!!
:eekBud
robertps21
Member
Right to Work
We have had Right to Work in Oklahoma for quite sometime. I have watched my employer march the lower 20% in metrics and stats right out the door each and every October. That is the reason this employer is here. I cannot mention employer, I have a Long Term Disability claim with them and their insurance company at this point in time. I have four Doctors stating I cannot work any longer due to Kidney problems compounded by a bad spine from C2 all the way down. They played a trick on me when I was out for exactly 60 days and on FMLA/short term disability, told me I had to be back in a certain date no matter what my doctors say. I contacted my doctors and they said no way, no matter what my employer says. It's a good thing I did not go back in because if I would have badged the door they would have laid termination papers on me since I was able to work because I badged the door and proclaimed myself "fit to work". An insider told me the termination papers were ready to be handed to me immediately. They wanted to get out of everything I was entitled to by terminating me. So now a year and eight months later the Long Term Disability insurance hassles me consistently sometimes multiple times per week. It is endless.
Long and short of it, they can terminate you for absolutely nothing. I have watched it first hand. They say make it on merit or don't make it at all. I watched that lower 20% I spoke of above work their rearend off just to be terminated due to bad luck for as little as one quarter year. I know the Union has people that don't want to work but want to draw a paycheck, I have seen it with the state government Union so I know it exists but come on, no reason at all. That's pure BS. All the employers as pleased, completely. I'm betting it passes due to the fact Michigan is fed up with Unions and the people that work hard with no Union make less than half of what a Union worker makes.
R
We have had Right to Work in Oklahoma for quite sometime. I have watched my employer march the lower 20% in metrics and stats right out the door each and every October. That is the reason this employer is here. I cannot mention employer, I have a Long Term Disability claim with them and their insurance company at this point in time. I have four Doctors stating I cannot work any longer due to Kidney problems compounded by a bad spine from C2 all the way down. They played a trick on me when I was out for exactly 60 days and on FMLA/short term disability, told me I had to be back in a certain date no matter what my doctors say. I contacted my doctors and they said no way, no matter what my employer says. It's a good thing I did not go back in because if I would have badged the door they would have laid termination papers on me since I was able to work because I badged the door and proclaimed myself "fit to work". An insider told me the termination papers were ready to be handed to me immediately. They wanted to get out of everything I was entitled to by terminating me. So now a year and eight months later the Long Term Disability insurance hassles me consistently sometimes multiple times per week. It is endless.
Long and short of it, they can terminate you for absolutely nothing. I have watched it first hand. They say make it on merit or don't make it at all. I watched that lower 20% I spoke of above work their rearend off just to be terminated due to bad luck for as little as one quarter year. I know the Union has people that don't want to work but want to draw a paycheck, I have seen it with the state government Union so I know it exists but come on, no reason at all. That's pure BS. All the employers as pleased, completely. I'm betting it passes due to the fact Michigan is fed up with Unions and the people that work hard with no Union make less than half of what a Union worker makes.
R
Last edited:
- Moderator
- #4
Speaking of "Right To Work verse's Union Only" ... The media is going crazy over Michigan signing a bill to make Michigan a "Right To Work State" Are there any benefits that come from doing this:
Here is an informative article:
Mackinac Center for Public Policy said:
Sorry "D" this may end up in the "EDGE", we shall see
Bud
tankman
Well-known member
Being in the state of Michigan, and being a card-carrying, dues-paying member of the UAW I might have a bit of a different angle on this issue.
I like to say that i am doing my best to remain objective through this, but can't guarantee that I am. In times like these things come out like misconceptions about the UAW. Did everyone know that the UAW represents as many if not more non big3 people as it does people that work for GM, Chrysler and Ford?? The Union does do good things. When GM was going down the tubes a few years ago and they simply stopped most all retiree benefits who is picking up the bill??? The UAW is. (Well actually it's a big conglomerate) They have protected the UAW workers and workers in general from companies trying to ake advantage of them. This isnt just something that went on decades ago, this happens all the time!
But I also see the UAW protecting wrong-doing employees. I also see the UAW spending my dues on political agendas and issues and topics I sure don't agree with.
Propenants of the "Right to Work" movement like to say that it will bring in work to the state!!! I see this happening. Work is a good thing. The people against say these jobs are generally lower paying and wont support a family. As with any political arguement, shades of both sides are true. I think if you support this movement or not has to do with what side of that dollar you are on.
Myself, I'd sure like to see the Union have to work a little more for my dues. If i have an option whether to be in the Union, then maybe they start stepping up what they offer their members. On the other hand, I'd hate to see them abolished and work environments regress back to years ago. With this law passing i think the Unions in this state will be gone. Not tomorrow or next week, but before too long.
Eric
Proud UAW member 13 years
local 412
Engineering and Aerospace
I like to say that i am doing my best to remain objective through this, but can't guarantee that I am. In times like these things come out like misconceptions about the UAW. Did everyone know that the UAW represents as many if not more non big3 people as it does people that work for GM, Chrysler and Ford?? The Union does do good things. When GM was going down the tubes a few years ago and they simply stopped most all retiree benefits who is picking up the bill??? The UAW is. (Well actually it's a big conglomerate) They have protected the UAW workers and workers in general from companies trying to ake advantage of them. This isnt just something that went on decades ago, this happens all the time!
But I also see the UAW protecting wrong-doing employees. I also see the UAW spending my dues on political agendas and issues and topics I sure don't agree with.
Propenants of the "Right to Work" movement like to say that it will bring in work to the state!!! I see this happening. Work is a good thing. The people against say these jobs are generally lower paying and wont support a family. As with any political arguement, shades of both sides are true. I think if you support this movement or not has to do with what side of that dollar you are on.
Myself, I'd sure like to see the Union have to work a little more for my dues. If i have an option whether to be in the Union, then maybe they start stepping up what they offer their members. On the other hand, I'd hate to see them abolished and work environments regress back to years ago. With this law passing i think the Unions in this state will be gone. Not tomorrow or next week, but before too long.
Eric
Proud UAW member 13 years
local 412
Engineering and Aerospace
jmhorn52
Well-known member
Union
I personally do not have a problem with unions. I am retired now so right to work or not doesnt affect me. I do believe a person should have the right to decide whether they want to belong to a union or not and should not be denied employment because of this. I have a problem with the heads of unions making the big money and using union money to support political candidates no matter who they are. I also dont agree with them supporting the continued employment of workers who are not fit to be employed like the employees at Chrysler who were just reinstated. The union would have alot more credibility if they would have supported the termination of these employees. I know I wouldnt want to own a car they worked on while drunk or high
I personally do not have a problem with unions. I am retired now so right to work or not doesnt affect me. I do believe a person should have the right to decide whether they want to belong to a union or not and should not be denied employment because of this. I have a problem with the heads of unions making the big money and using union money to support political candidates no matter who they are. I also dont agree with them supporting the continued employment of workers who are not fit to be employed like the employees at Chrysler who were just reinstated. The union would have alot more credibility if they would have supported the termination of these employees. I know I wouldnt want to own a car they worked on while drunk or high
xfirez51
Well-known member
This has nothing to do with "right to work for less" and everything to do with eliminating the unions as the one counterbalancing force to employers and big money.
Question: Without unions, how does an individual "negotiate" with an employer to determine wages and benefits?
Answer: They don't. Which is exactly what this is all about and keeping it that way.
Question: Without unions, how does an individual "negotiate" with an employer to determine wages and benefits?
Answer: They don't. Which is exactly what this is all about and keeping it that way.
- Moderator
- #8
I don't think the Unions will go away, they will need to be more active, transparent with their membership. I believe the Unions will adapt and survive. Not all employers are demons or out to screw their employees. I worked at York Foundry after my military service and earned a better than average wage, incentives and profit sharing at the end of the year, York Foundry also had matching 401k way back then.. and York Foundry was non-union ..
I worked at Nebraska Public Power District for over 12 years. NPPD was a non-union work place and we had Lineman and others come to work there because the working conditions were actually better then some of the union jobs they had... NPPD paid it's employees as much in most case's more than union equivalent jobs and positions... and in most case a lot better benefits and retirement..
Bud
xfirez51
Well-known member
Bud,
Times have changed. In those days, we didn't have Citizens United.
Times have changed. In those days, we didn't have Citizens United.
- Thread starter
- #10
Hib Halverson
Technical Writer for Internet & Print Media
It will be interesting to see if the Obama administration files suit against MI to overturn the law.
With all Pres. Obama owes union labor in getting re-elected, it would be surprising if Pres. Obama and Att. Gen. Holder let the Michigan "Right-to-Work" law stand.
With all Pres. Obama owes union labor in getting re-elected, it would be surprising if Pres. Obama and Att. Gen. Holder let the Michigan "Right-to-Work" law stand.
jmhorn52
Well-known member
Unions
This law aloows the people a choice to belong to a union or not. If the unions offer so much to the workers why wouldnt they join. Unions know without the forced servitude they demand in order to work the leaders wont continue to draw their 6 figure incomes and take money and contribute to political candidates that only protect their power not who are the best for us. I am not anti union I have belonged to 2 in my working lifetime. I just think I should be allowed the choice and thats all the law allows
This law aloows the people a choice to belong to a union or not. If the unions offer so much to the workers why wouldnt they join. Unions know without the forced servitude they demand in order to work the leaders wont continue to draw their 6 figure incomes and take money and contribute to political candidates that only protect their power not who are the best for us. I am not anti union I have belonged to 2 in my working lifetime. I just think I should be allowed the choice and thats all the law allows
dcsteg
Well-known member
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I worked as a union Local 124 electrician for 39 years. Served a 5 year apprenticeship school.
I made good wages, good health care and was a responsible hard working employee. The wife stayed home for 15 years raising our only child.
I worked in ice,snow cold and mud when the job had to get done. Either that or stay home and not get paid. Power houses to single family dwellings. 110-440 Volts hot... I did it all.
I worked on many non-union jobs in the right to work state Kansas repairing and bringining their jobs up to code so they could pass city requirements for safety after it was apparent they could not do the work and were let go.
Now retired I have a international and local pension plan. A good secondary local funded health insurance plan.
Bottom line: If working without union representation in a right to work state for a rat employer I would have never been able to retire with the benefits I now enjoy. It is what it is. Right to work for less.
Yes, there were a few slackers on the jobs but they didn't last long. Every company/jobs has a few. We at Local 124 worked hard to made sure the jobs were installed correctly and safe. Why would anybody would want cast off unions and regress back to the 30's? You have no idea what you are in for.
I made good wages, good health care and was a responsible hard working employee. The wife stayed home for 15 years raising our only child.
I worked in ice,snow cold and mud when the job had to get done. Either that or stay home and not get paid. Power houses to single family dwellings. 110-440 Volts hot... I did it all.
I worked on many non-union jobs in the right to work state Kansas repairing and bringining their jobs up to code so they could pass city requirements for safety after it was apparent they could not do the work and were let go.
Now retired I have a international and local pension plan. A good secondary local funded health insurance plan.
Bottom line: If working without union representation in a right to work state for a rat employer I would have never been able to retire with the benefits I now enjoy. It is what it is. Right to work for less.
Yes, there were a few slackers on the jobs but they didn't last long. Every company/jobs has a few. We at Local 124 worked hard to made sure the jobs were installed correctly and safe. Why would anybody would want cast off unions and regress back to the 30's? You have no idea what you are in for.
jmhorn52
Well-known member
From my limited knowledge they arent trying to do away with unions or go back to the 30's all the law does is give people a choice. Your benefits sound great and if workers choose then they will opt to join. So if the unions offer the worker so much they would join if they dont want to then they wont
dcsteg
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There main focus is to take away union work by paying lower wages and substandard benefit packages if they have them at all for there employees. An employee has to negotiate for everything on his own even to the point of furnishing their own tools which can be very expensive. From what I have seen they employee one lead man and the rest of the crew is made up of helpers with little or no experience and of course paid marginally.
For those that think this is a good deal go for it. You will have enough to put food on the table. ALL SAID AND DONE YOU CAN KISS THE REST OF YOUR DREAMS GOODBY.
CAPTAIN AL
Member
Right to Work
Unions will be a thing of the past in 20 years. Drug test them and UAW would loose at least 30% of the work force.
Unions will be a thing of the past in 20 years. Drug test them and UAW would loose at least 30% of the work force.
dcsteg
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That's BS.
Union employed people take many tests to be qualified to even work on a job. Drug testing and OSHA requirements a must. Go back to your buger flipping 30 hr. no benefit week and enjoy your life. Come back when you know what you are talking about. I don't think a drug test is required for what you do. You should be safe.
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Global competition - Is it an even playing field?
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catbert
Moderator
.....and what would the basis of the legal action be? Right to work laws are in the arena of a state's prerogative.
robertps21
Member
I disagree, I negogiated for salary and benefits wherever I have worked. It may have gone back and forth a dozen times but negotiated I did. Kind of like buying a car or house.
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