yep, don't even bother trying to repair those paint chips because the touch-up paint wasn't original 
Value of a number-matching engine?
- Thread starter akfox1
- Start date
Vettehead Mikey said:
In addition to this, some engines broke while still in the warranty, and some of those vehicles got a factory replacement engine, so if the new replacement does not have the vin stamped, and yet the paperwork properly documents the engine as a factory replacement, then this suffices as far as documentation. Doesn't it?
GerryLP:cool
Vettehead Mikey
Well-known member
GerryLP said:
In a word, no. No special credit or exemption is given CE engines. They all get judged the same way.
They're not really factory replacement engines anyway, they're warranty replacement engines. The factory built ALL the engines, so they're all factory replacements.
CE engines were not installed at the factory, so that's not the way it was delivered which is the judging standard.
I've seen statements presented and accepted at meets to substantiate an 'unusual' factory deviation of a car, but that's very rare.
There was a '63 vert in our chapter that was special ordered by a the local Chev dealer as a gift for his daughter - non Corvette paint colour and interior IIRC. The car was built as ordered, but the trim tag did not reflect these unique features at all. The original order form plus written communications between GM and the dealer showing this along with colour photos taken the day of delivery were accepted as proof that St. Louis must have built it that way. No deductions were made during Flight Judging.
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The engine block is the only area on the car that's judged sequentially. 613 points are allocated to the block (350 for the casting number, 175 for the casting date, and 88 for the stamp pad - 25 for the engine plant stamp, 25 for the assembly plant VIN stamp, and 38 for the pad surface).
The casting number is judged first; if incorrect, block judging stops there and all 613 points are deducted. If the casting number is OK, the casting date is judged next; if incorrect, block judging stops there, and the remaining 263 points are deducted. If the casting date is correct, the stamp pad is judged next for its three characteristics, and any appropriate deductions are taken. If there's any paint on the stamp pad that obscures observation of the stamps and surface, all 88 points for the pad are deducted.
Most of the points for the block are related to the casting number and date, not to the pad; that's why a blank pad doesn't score any worse than a detectable re-stamp.
The casting number is judged first; if incorrect, block judging stops there and all 613 points are deducted. If the casting number is OK, the casting date is judged next; if incorrect, block judging stops there, and the remaining 263 points are deducted. If the casting date is correct, the stamp pad is judged next for its three characteristics, and any appropriate deductions are taken. If there's any paint on the stamp pad that obscures observation of the stamps and surface, all 88 points for the pad are deducted.
Most of the points for the block are related to the casting number and date, not to the pad; that's why a blank pad doesn't score any worse than a detectable re-stamp.
G
goertz
Guest
just my personal opinion, and what I would do....doesn't mean it's right....
I would find the correctly date coded motor and heads. restamp the vin (I wouldn't consider that dishonest if it's the right coded motor for the car) and just rebuild it in your spare time. You have a beautiful car, it runs and drives just fine now, and collect all the original parts you can when you come across them. Maybe you'll want to put them on the car, maybe you'll just want to hang on to them. regardless, I think it's a good investment. personally, I don't think the bubble is going to burst, because I don't think this is a bubble. You saw the same thing back in the 80'/early 90's, but there is a big difference here. Back then, there were plenty of cars still out there, lots of survivors, etc. The price was driven up by investors. Today it's a different story. 15 years later, those survivors are gone. I think it's simply a matter of supply now. There just aren't as many of these cars still out there. Think about some of the older cars. those 1940 fords, etc. the prices on those cars hasn't varied much over the years other than upwards. there's just not many left. same with 55-57' chevys. They haven't taken a hit in prices for years. not too many of those sitting around in the barn either. I think our cars have achieved that level now, and will hold the value and increase.
The way I look at it, make the car what YOU want it to be. If you can pick up original pieces along the way, then great, hold on to them, and use them as you see fit. The next owner will thank you though, and pay more if you have the original parts to go along with it.
i ran across an interesting thing on my car last weekend. the paint code on the trim tag is tuxedo black. doesn't look to me like the trim tag has ever been tampered with. I pulled the dash to install a CD player, and the "factory overspray" that you see under the dash is green. Now I don't know if this is factory primer, or paint. It's a little too light to be fathom green, so it really makes me wonder. body has never been off the frame, vin plate has never been tampered with. trim tag appears to have not been tampered with. I wonder what color other owners have found under there. On all the other GM cars I've owned usually the factory overspray found in there indicates original color. Maybe it's factory primer? I see no other evidence anywhere on the car that it was ever anything but black, and now blue.
I would find the correctly date coded motor and heads. restamp the vin (I wouldn't consider that dishonest if it's the right coded motor for the car) and just rebuild it in your spare time. You have a beautiful car, it runs and drives just fine now, and collect all the original parts you can when you come across them. Maybe you'll want to put them on the car, maybe you'll just want to hang on to them. regardless, I think it's a good investment. personally, I don't think the bubble is going to burst, because I don't think this is a bubble. You saw the same thing back in the 80'/early 90's, but there is a big difference here. Back then, there were plenty of cars still out there, lots of survivors, etc. The price was driven up by investors. Today it's a different story. 15 years later, those survivors are gone. I think it's simply a matter of supply now. There just aren't as many of these cars still out there. Think about some of the older cars. those 1940 fords, etc. the prices on those cars hasn't varied much over the years other than upwards. there's just not many left. same with 55-57' chevys. They haven't taken a hit in prices for years. not too many of those sitting around in the barn either. I think our cars have achieved that level now, and will hold the value and increase.
The way I look at it, make the car what YOU want it to be. If you can pick up original pieces along the way, then great, hold on to them, and use them as you see fit. The next owner will thank you though, and pay more if you have the original parts to go along with it.
i ran across an interesting thing on my car last weekend. the paint code on the trim tag is tuxedo black. doesn't look to me like the trim tag has ever been tampered with. I pulled the dash to install a CD player, and the "factory overspray" that you see under the dash is green. Now I don't know if this is factory primer, or paint. It's a little too light to be fathom green, so it really makes me wonder. body has never been off the frame, vin plate has never been tampered with. trim tag appears to have not been tampered with. I wonder what color other owners have found under there. On all the other GM cars I've owned usually the factory overspray found in there indicates original color. Maybe it's factory primer? I see no other evidence anywhere on the car that it was ever anything but black, and now blue.
L
lnirenberg
Guest
AKFOX's question had to do with value not points on an NCRS scorecard. The original engine is gone never to return. An ethical man AK is and therefore not trying to fool anyone just trying to maximize value. I think that the bumper sharks will always have more value in the market than later sharks with like options-not a value judgement just, I think, a fact. But base engine cars are not all that rare on a relative basis (I too fall into this grouping) and will likely not draw whatever big bucks are at a given time in the future. Is AKs car worth more with NOM 69 motor or not? In my humble opinion his money should be spent elsewhere, either personalizing the car further or save the $$$ and just drive and enjoy. That's what it was built for.
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