*** Warning ***

[dshanks]

Hi folks,
As I stated before, I should be getting my engine from Five Star very soon, and I will be in a hurry to get it in. Also, my dad will likely buy one as well.
I will be eager to post my results, and so will he.

Please, before you write this company off, wait till I give them a chance to provide the service that I think they are capable of...

 

[BarryK]

Space Cowboy,
are you going to be street driving this motor or solely for track use?
If you are street driving it you are better off with the dual plane intake manifold as it should give you better streetability and better bottom end torgue. Single plane intakes are great for the track but not as friendly on the street. Torque, especially at the lower rpm ranges, make a good street motor rather than just hp numbers and the dual plane intake would be better for that.

just my $.02

 

[Space Cowboy]

Street/Highway driving only and car shows. This vehicle was restored to "show quality", so I don't want to run the risk of tearing it up.

I realise that a dual-plane would be better, but I'm not willing to cut a hole in a new L-88 hood to make it fit.

 

[dshanks]

I'm not willing to cut a hole in a new L-88 hood to make it fit.

May be a stupid question, but If you had a BBC, and replaced it with a BBC, couldnt you just replace the intake manifold and carb with the one that you took off of it? If you just want street/hwy/show, wouldnt that be sufficient/preferred?

 

[BarryK]

May be a stupid question, but If you had a BBC, and replaced it with a BBC, couldnt you just replace the intake manifold and carb with the one that you took off of it? If you just want street/hwy/show, wouldnt that be sufficient/preferred?

That confused me too. '68's came with the 427BB as an option so I don't know why a rebuilt 427 wouldn't fit under a BB hood. They came from the factory with dual plane intakes so clearance shouldn't be an issue with the correct intake and air cleaner under a stock BB hood. Unless of couse the intake was a hi-rise model in which case it would be understandable. :confused

 

[Vettehead Mikey]

You know, I think it's almost shameful that a vendor has to spend his time signing up to a website to try to do some 'damage control' - all because he unilaterally gets accused of being a so-called 'bad vendor.' Is that what this forum is for?

In this particular case, the buyer actually has no idea WHAT has gone wrong with the engine, WHY it happened, and most importantly WHO caused it!

He stated in another thread very matter-of-factly that it was a spun 'piston bearing'. Now we learn that even the most basic disassembly has not been done to determine WHAT actually failed (if anything), yet it's supposedly all the fault of the builder.

Worse yet is the gang of vultures that have already condemned the builder without the slightest bit of evidence that they did anything wrong.

Even if it does turn out that it's an error on the part of the builder, they provided you with a written guarantee. If they live up to the terms of that contract, you've got nothing to moan about other than aw-gee, machines sometimes break.:cry Poor me.

From what I can see, you've not given the builder a chance to put things right, but would instead prefer to sh*t all over them instead in a public forum.

What goes around comes around. I look forward to hearing the truth about what REALLY happened and why, but doubt that this will happen. :eyerole

 

[Space Cowboy]

dshanks... It had a SB 350 when I bought the car. The original 427 was scrapped for an unknown reason by a previous owner. They probably blew it out. I wanted to put in another 427 as it originally came.

Vettehead... I can appreciate your comments... somewhat. But thats your opinion and I have my own. I guess you didn't read my last post... You can take whatever you want out of the post. And as for "hearing the truth about what REALLY happened and why", you will as I stated in my last reply.

Oh... as you stated... "machines sometimes break"... They shouldn't with less than 700 break-in miles!

 

[Vettehead Mikey]

....... I guess you didn't read my last post.....

Oh... as you stated... "machines sometimes break"... They shouldn't with less than 700 break-in miles!

Not quite, I wrote my response BECAUSE of your last post.

Yes, they shouldn't break, but they do. That's why there's warranty policies. Good vendors honour them. Bad vendors don't.

Warranty policies are similar to offering apologies for making mistakes. Are you going to apologize if YOU are in the wrong?

 

[Space Cowboy]

I will only submit an apology ONLY if it is not a mechanical failure. If you were to hear this engine as I can, you would know that there is a serious issue. However, as you & I have stated, it hasn't been disassembled yet, so everything is speculation. Also, as I stated to 5Star, we have taken a couple of steps to eliminate certain things. When we still hear a thud sound coming from deep within the block, we are only left with bare basics and can only assume the worst.

Even though 5Star states that they will honor the warantee even though its been beyond a year due to my restore circumstances, it would cost me a lot more money to ship it than to fix it here in Texas. So call me cheap! I've been called worse!

 

[dshanks]

I agree with Mikey, lets find the problem. Then take advantage of the opportunity to allow the builder to make it right, then complain if he doesnt.
Also, you said that you had to add an L-88 hood to fit the new motor. If the car originally had a BB, are you saying the person that added the SB added a SB hood too? Thats and odd change. And if thats not the case, the car already had a BB hood?

Let not forget that I will be posting back after my father and I recieve 2 of these Five Star engines. Ill tell you guys exactly what I find...
I have confidence that it will be exactly what I'm expecting, a good strong 350 for a good price.

I think that if you were offered the warranty after it expired, Legally, he's going above and beyond what he owes you...
And your shipping woes shouldnt be his problem till you prove it's thier doing (since you admitted to having to motor open)

Am I on the right track here?

 

[gmjunkie]

Then Let's quit P**s'n at each outher and Get the Beach Tore Down!! No problem's, Just Solutions Guy's!! junk!!

 

[pgtr]

If the engine, AS BUILT BY THE SHOP, failed than the shop should cover all costs involved in fixxing the problem including the labor to remove than reinstall the motor.

In my experience if a consumer buys long distance they typically have to pay the cost for shipping TO the seller/warranter and the seller/warranter pays RETURN shipping upon fixing the problem. Each party pays half the shipping - that's typical and just about ANY consumer warranty is worded this way that I can recall. On the cost to remove/reinstall my hunch is most of these are sold to either individuals/DIYers or smaller restorer outfits (who probably have business relationships w/ engine shops and probably those that are closer to home). The general operating standard is that removal and installation costs are born by the purchaser or installer. Such liabilities are not typically covered by a warranty. And of course once the stated warranty period is up, ... 5* can as a gesture of good will extend (which they appear to be doing) the warranty but are not obligated to.

The risk mitigation strategies for consumers are to deal with a local engine shop to reduce distance related costs or have 'turnkey' work done by a complete service/restoration shop and they assume the risk of getting a good motor (which might be a motor source of THEIR choice that they are comfortable with). But a DIYer has to accept some risk in these projects. The risk mitigation for the seller is to build a good product, test it and have clear warranty policies and procedures in place and recognize that not all buyers are informed. Both parties have something at stake, one a functioning car the other, an intact reputation.

An out of the box solution might be for 5* to contact an engine builder in the general area of THEIR choice to act as their inspecting agent. If cowboy is willing to deliver the engine to a reasonably local 'agent' of 5* who can spend a few hours labor to inspect - 5* is only out the labor costs (which might be split w/ cowboy). Depending on what the agent discovers they can go from there with an informed decision.

 

[Space Cowboy]

dshanks... I never stated that a previous owner changed to a SB hood. The original BB 427 hood was still witht the car when I bought it. Also, I would not consider swaping out the intake as "opening" the block. As I stated in a previous thread, doing so would do nothing to harm the block.

pgtr... it's not getting shipped back, now or never to 5Star. Read an earlier thread. I'm having a father/son team that are NASCAR engine specialists fix it for me. They pretty much know what the issues is just by hearing what happened and hearing the engine run previously. They suspect that one of the crank journal is too small. Several people stated that there was no way that this engine was pulling 450 HP as 5Star claimed it would (I doubt even 400). I'm with gmjunkie though... until this engine is disassembled, there is know way of knowing. I'm trailering the car back to where it can be pulled on Sunday and the next day its going to be taken apart with digital pics taken for record.

 

[dshanks]

The original BB 427 hood was still witht the car when I bought it.

Then blaming the need to switch to an L-88 hood on Chris is a pretty steep claim, eh?

I'm trailering the car back to where it can be pulled on Sunday and the next day its going to be taken apart with digital pics taken for record

Damm, man. Its not CSI here, you said he would honor your warranty. I though this would be a non-issue as soon as he agreed to take the engine in after the warranty...

 

[Jack]

That confused me too. '68's came with the 427BB as an option so I don't know why a rebuilt 427 wouldn't fit under a BB hood. They came from the factory with dual plane intakes so clearance shouldn't be an issue with the correct intake and air cleaner under a stock BB hood. Unless of couse the intake was a hi-rise model in which case it would be understandable. :confused

I dunno about this cluster**** ... but I've seen alotta 427 builds advertized on net that use a TALL DECK 427 TRUCK BLOCK ... the tall deck will set the intake, carb & filter higher. There's alotta different intakes too ... any given single plane is not necessarily taller OR shorter than any given dual plane ... an intake's height depends entirely upon its part number ... and if it's a low-rise or mid-rise or hi-rise ... not whether it's a single or dual. Only a GENERALITY, but overall dual planes TEND to be shorter than single planes. Without being there from time of delivery through teardown, there is NO way we'll ever KNOW what went wrong ... or why.
JACK:gap

-edit- Houston is, I understand, USA's 4'th largest city ... and I've spent a bit of time there ... as recently as this summer. I don't understand why this fellow didn't simply have a decent motor built right there in Houston?

 

[Space Cowboy]

dshanks - the 427 and L-88 hoods are not the same. The L-88 has a about a 3-4" higher lift in the center. And no... its not CSI. I'm simply not spending the buttload of money for freighting this engine back and forth to Arizona. I think I've said that several times.

Jack - Why do you say "there is NO way we'll ever KNOW what went wrong ... or why". Once the it's torn down, we will know exactly what & why.
The reason I didn't have a motor built was because I couldn't find any references at the time, even from the forum. Had I have known about this father & son team back then, I would've had them build it. They said for the money I spent on this block, they could've built on out at 700+ HP. But the money is already spent. So now I going to spend a couple extra thousand to have it fixed right by them.

 

[gmjunkie]

Damm, man. Its not CSI here, you said he would honor your warranty. I though this would be a non-issue as soon as he agreed to take the engine in after the warranty...

You'd Think So!! But Some people Like Pi*s'n Match's!! Personally, I think he should let 5* try to take care of it!! There Willing!! I had my LS6 Rebuilt by a rep Co. in Va. about 7yr.'s ago!! I had some Problem's!! If not for the Mgr. of there NC Store (a Personal friend) I would have been Screwed!! Thrust main started knocking with 1200 mi on it!!(Not coverd by there Warranty) He came up on a Saturday,and we pulled it and tore it down!! Before it got shiped to Va. the 1st time I had Stamped JA on head's,Block,and New GM in the Box Forged Crank!!(inconspicusly) and We found 1 head my org.(welded up #2) My Block 30 over #2 Sleaved,My orig.Crank 30/30 under,1 Head who knows where it came from! and now we wonder where new crank and replacement head I shiped 3 week's later(after informed it could not be Repaired) and the outher Orig. Head!! So Monday Morning "SH*T"Hit the Fan!!!! 2 Drag Racer Boy's got Fired!! My head's and Crank got Found!! And my LS6 got rebuilt by owner's Best Man!! 56,000 miles Later Still Smokes the Duel 235/85-16 Firestone's on my Car Hauler w/Turbo400 and not even a main seal Drip!! junk!!ps I'm not say'n this is the Case hear at all!! I'm just say'n Most Rep. Biz. will try to what's right!! and will take care of it even if Border Line!! Give them a Sport'n Chance!!

 

[dshanks]

GM Junkie, Your avitar picture there is freakin' me out man...
How bout a nice corvette or something...

Kidding

 

[gmjunkie]

GM Junkie, Your avitar picture there is freakin' me out man...

Yea and My Brouther Live's Close to ya Too!! Across the road from KCMO tower!! junk!! I had a Self Por-Trate of me,for a while but one of the Younger Member's Did not Like Alians!! Thought I was Space Junk!! I thought it was a True Reflection!!

 

[Jack]

Jack - Why do you say "there is NO way we'll ever KNOW what went wrong ... or why".

They said for the money I spent on this block, they could've built on out at 700+ HP.

SC-Full quote should read: Without being there from time of delivery through teardown, there is NO way we'll ever KNOW what went wrong ... or why. Speaking for myself, if I put my eyes on it I might know but if I cannot see it then I cannot know. In lieu of personal observation, I'd consider those of bona fide expert who does not and will not have vested interest in outcome.

In principle, I agree w/ your new father-son team; more motor could be had for same $. I have suggested the following to those that need local references: go to several local races and buy the pit passes; get down in there and ask who-what they recommend.

Is this a TALL DECK motor ? If so, that could cause clearance problems at intake system / brake booster / exhaust system.

SC-I don't know you nor do I know 5 star. I sincerely hope this problem is remedied quickly and fairly. I hope whoever is truly at blame has adequate info to make fully-informed decision.
JACK:gap