What should a stock Zzz be putting down for HP?

[Edmond]

365 @ the rear is normal.

Yeah, their Z06 was on the lower end. But they did gain some nice numbers with those mods. I would think that if they did those mods to an 02-04 Z06, the gains would've probably been a little higher.

 

[gsmi837]

My o4 z06 dynoed at 356hp bone stock

 

[SPANISHVETTS]

I also know that there is always someone faster than you...you just haven't found them yet.

That is why I am glad that Ken is on the other side of the ocean.
It is sad that John Lingenfelter died before he had a shot at the LS6. Then you could have seen some real rwhp!

 

[Edmond]

That is why I am glad that Ken is on the other side of the ocean.
It is sad that John Lingenfelter died before he had a shot at the LS6. Then you could have seen some real rwhp!

I thought he died around Christmas of 2003? He was alive to have worked on the LS6. In fact, they even advertise LS1 packages on the Lingenfelter website saying that results would be higher on LS6's if the same mods were done, at least that's what they said about the supercharger.

 

[SPANISHVETTS]

I thought he died around Christmas of 2003? He was alive to have worked on the LS6. In fact, they even advertise LS1 packages on the Lingenfelter website saying that results would be higher on LS6's if the same mods were done, at least that's what they said about the supercharger.

Edmond, you are correct!



John Lingenfelter died on Christmas day 2003; the accident was in October 2002. The last few years of his life were dedicated to Sport Compact Drag Racing where he spent most of his personal energies. The C5 that he campaigned was a twin turbo 7 liter monster that was about as close to a LS6 as Ken’s engine is to a L98.



LPE was not a one man show. LPE had over 30 employs on the day of his accident and they have carried on in his tradition.



LPE offers performance mods for the LS6 and their potential is mind blowing. I guess that I am too much of a romantic…What I meant was that if JL had lived longer he would have personally tweaked the newer SBCs the way he tuned all of the previous SBCs.

 

[Edmond]

LPE offers performance mods for the LS6 and their potential is mind blowing. I guess that I am too much of a romantic…What I meant was that if JL had lived longer he would have personally tweaked the newer SBCs the way he tuned all of the previous SBCs.

I agree. I wonder what he would've done if he had lived to see the C6 and the C6 Z06 that we'll all see in a couple of weeks. In my opinion, John Lingenfelter's contributions to the Corvette were in the same high level as Zora Arkus-Duntov.

 

[Heavy Duty]

Sorry guys for not getting back to all of you. I was home enjoying the holidays and crusing in the Zz. I am now back up here in the frozen tundra (Leicester, Mass).

Great info. Once the weather breaks (spring) I want to dyno mine to get an idea as to what it is currently doing. Then I'll start adding the goodies. I know that Borla is currently advertising a peice about JL and how he modified the exhaust on the C-5 to get about 20 more ponies from it. But what about the Zzz. Of course I know that it just may be a sells pitch.

While i was home i took a potential vette owner for a ride in the Z-06. He was totally impressed (so was I) how quick that car could go from 25 MPH to 90 MPH. It is a rocket in thrid gear. I think i lost a potentual buyer for my C-4 because I heard from his wife that he was looking at Z-06s on the internet.
H.D.

 

[Dave C. '04 Z06]

Whenever I hear that, I always get a philosophical thought..."If there is always someone faster than you, where does it end?" :L

The Starship Enterprise.

-Dave C. '04 Z06

 

[TX03z06]

Here Is A Stock Z06

I have an 03 stock TO THE BONE z06. I had 2 runs on a dyno and had 365 lbs tq at the rear wheels and 345 horsepower rear wheels. WHAT is the 1st EASY upgrade that is WORTH the money?????

Thanks

 

[ScatRat]

RWHP Ratings

As a general rule of thumb, you can expect 45 RWHP loss through the ZO6 drivetrain (transmission, axles, gears, etc). The ZO6 transmission, due to their design and implementation, do cause a higher loss than expected. That said, the horsepower numbers being quoted are all in the ballpark of an expected 360 RWHP car. 345 to 365 RWHP are all close (within 4%).

Dyno runs can and will vary between cars and we all know that. One thing that helps is if the folks doing your dyno runs also provide the corrected RWHP based upon the temp, humidity at sea level for the day you dyno'd your car.

Mine is currently in for mods and it started out in the 330-350 RWHP range depending upon the conditions stated above. We'll see what happens once dyno'd again.

Quick and easy mods for performance on a ZO6? Haven't seen any yet. These cars require serious work for serious horsepower. After over a year of reading, studying and listening, the typical mods that may have helped the LT1s and LS1s don't work for the ZO6. I've heard and read the claims, but no one could provide the proof. If you want horsepower, go with the performance mods that cost $$$ and take time to install. There are no "short cuts" for the ZO6.

IMHO,
Scat Rat

 

[TX03z06]

Well what is ur idea of a $$$ upgrade. I have heard that LG longtube headers and a good air intake will put u over 400 rw hp....can anyone prove that? if so..that can be done for under 3k. That seems like my best choice. If so...would u leave the ti exhaust on or upgrade to a performance exhaust?
thanks

 

[ScatRat]

Longtube headers, X-pipe and higher flow catcons. Keep the titanium exhaust after the catcons. Aftermarkets don't gain you any power. If you know of someone that can do this for less than $3K, do it!

Cold air induction systems for the ZO6 - I've read, heard and talked to folks that have installed these and yet to see the true dyno results. Everything passed along has been in terms of quarter mile times. Quarter mile times don't determine RWHP. Many other factors also affect quarter mile times. The only true way to determine if a cold air induction system has gained you 10-20% RWHP gains, as claimed, is to dyno it. I haven't seen a shred of evidence that ANY cold air induction system provides a 40-80 RWHP boost on the ZO6 in the 1.5 years I've owned mine.

The mods I'm putting into my ZO6 are significantly more than $3K. But, without any guess work, we're more than likely going to be making 500+ RWHP when it's done. I will have the proof. AND, we are not going into the block, replacing heads or intakes.

Cheers,
Scat Rat

 

[Heavy Duty]

ScatRat, most of what you have said makes good sound advice. That is why I am still researching and looking for the best bang for the dollar before I start spending. I have a very difficult time at spending 2-3 thousand dollars just to get an extra 20-30 ponies. I think that if you really want the HP and are serious, just go and buy the engine you want and R&R the LS6. If you look in Jegg's and other parts vendors you can get a crate motor that will put out some serious ponies for around $8,000. You can spend near that amount (if not more) on a good set of headers, a good exhaust system, intake, cam, heads, and ECM programing for the LS-6. I know cause I've done the comparison.

I'll leave my stock for now and wait to see what the best mods are.

H.D.

 

[Heavy Duty]

Longtube headers, X-pipe and higher flow catcons. Keep the titanium exhaust after the catcons. Aftermarkets don't gain you any power. If you know of someone that can do this for less than $3K, do it!

Cold air induction systems for the ZO6 - I've read, heard and talked to folks that have installed these and yet to see the true dyno results. Everything passed along has been in terms of quarter mile times. Quarter mile times don't determine RWHP. Many other factors also affect quarter mile times. The only true way to determine if a cold air induction system has gained you 10-20% RWHP gains, as claimed, is to dyno it. I haven't seen a shred of evidence that ANY cold air induction system provides a 40-80 RWHP boost on the ZO6 in the 1.5 years I've owned mine.

The mods I'm putting into my ZO6 are significantly more than $3K. But, without any guess work, we're more than likely going to be making 500+ RWHP when it's done. I will have the proof. AND, we are not going into the block, replacing heads or intakes.

Cheers,
Scat Rat

Cold air induction systems do not work all that great on a dyno because the car is setting still and the air entering the induction system is static (no moving). According to all of the brochures I've read, the cold air induction system works best when the car is moving and at speeds greater than 60MPH. If you read the product brochures they will tell you that you will not see any noticeable differences in HP and speeds until the car is at or above 60MPH. That is because the systems uses the car's foreward speed to shove air down the intake. Now if you want to get the best out of a cold air induction system, then put a supercharger on the car.

H.D.

 

[Robert YellowVette]

Longtube headers, X-pipe and higher flow catcons. Keep the titanium exhaust after the catcons. Aftermarkets don't gain you any power. If you know of someone that can do this for less than $3K, do it!

Cold air induction systems for the ZO6 - I've read, heard and talked to folks that have installed these and yet to see the true dyno results. Everything passed along has been in terms of quarter mile times. Quarter mile times don't determine RWHP. Many other factors also affect quarter mile times. The only true way to determine if a cold air induction system has gained you 10-20% RWHP gains, as claimed, is to dyno it. I haven't seen a shred of evidence that ANY cold air induction system provides a 40-80 RWHP boost on the ZO6 in the 1.5 years I've owned mine.

The mods I'm putting into my ZO6 are significantly more than $3K. But, without any guess work, we're more than likely going to be making 500+ RWHP when it's done. I will have the proof. AND, we are not going into the block, replacing heads or intakes.

Cheers,
Scat Rat

I have pretty much come to the same conclusions concerning mods to the Z06, GM has already done a wonderful job with the Z06's performance; you have to spend a considerable amount of money to see any real gains in either power or handling.

When you actually look at where the stock air intake is drawing air, it is certainly well ahead of the engine and as cool as ambient air, I don't see where the 'cold ram-air' systems can possibly make the gains stated by the vendors. Any tuner can tell you dyno numbers can be tweaked and correction factors fudged to make the car look really strong.

Any honest tuner will tell you privately that you should buy intake and exhaust systems for looks and for sound, you will not see any significant power gains over stock, but you will spend a lot of money...=;]

 

[SPANISHVETTS]

Cold air induction systems for the ZO6 - I've read, heard and talked to folks that have installed these and yet to see the true dyno results. Everything passed along has been in terms of quarter mile times. Quarter mile times don't determine RWHP. Many other factors also affect quarter mile times. The only true way to determine if a cold air induction system has gained you 10-20% RWHP gains, as claimed, is to dyno it. I haven't seen a shred of evidence that ANY cold air induction system provides a 40-80 RWHP boost on the ZO6 in the 1.5 years I've owned mine.
Cheers,
Scat Rat

Well Said Scat!!!The first production COLD AIR INDUCTION system that I know of with was made by Moony Aircraft Corp. back in the 50s and continues to this day on their non–turbo models. This went from being a hole behind the prop on an M20a to a NASA intake scoop on the 201. The cold air system on the 201 is good for about 1.5 inches of manifold pressure at 200 MPH. I do not think that you will find any after-market system that is as efficient as the one Moony spent 50 years refining. Using this as a benchmark and remembering that the air pressure is going to increase or decrease logarithmically with speed you do not need to be a Nuclear Physicist to sort out how small the gain of a cold air induction system at normal operating speeds is going to be.

To back this up our Super Nissan and GP2 cars are capable of 200 MPH and have cold air induction systems. The Max increase in manifold pressure is about 1 inch and it is a constant argument between the engineers as to whether or not the 17 lbs. that the system weighs is worth the gain. For now the scoop behind the drivers head is in style and legal in the rules so all of the cars have it.

For low-end, seat of the pants grunt you still have to have cubes or a supercharger; nothing else is going to give you that old fashion corvette grin.

 

[ScatRat]

I absolutely concur. That's why I'm going the supercharger route. Minimum, 180 additional RWHP. We'll see, but that's what we're counting on. Also including bigger injectors, special software programming and chassis dyno tune. Trying to do it right. It ain't cheap.


In response to replacing the LS6 - Good point. The shop I'm working with suggested I stay below 600 RWHP. The LS6 can't handle 600 at the tires and last very long. If you want that kind of power or more, you need to go with a truck block modified for 6-bolt mains and use a forged crank. I believe them based upon what I've seen them do. I wasn't prepared to get that radical...yet.

If anyone's interested, I'll keep you posted.

 

[Robert YellowVette]

I absolutely concur. That's why I'm going the supercharger route. Minimum, 180 additional RWHP. We'll see, but that's what we're counting on. Also including bigger injectors, special software programming and chassis dyno tune. Trying to do it right. It ain't cheap.


In response to replacing the LS6 - Good point. The shop I'm working with suggested I stay below 600 RWHP. The LS6 can't handle 600 at the tires and last very long. If you want that kind of power or more, you need to go with a truck block modified for 6-bolt mains and use a forged crank. I believe them based upon what I've seen them do. I wasn't prepared to get that radical...yet.

If anyone's interested, I'll keep you posted.

You may want to experiment with Xylene at 117 octane for mixing with pump gas for a cheap way to boost octane.

A 70% pump gas / 30% Xylene mix will net 100 octane for a lot less than unleaded race fuels, it is pure C8H10 and no metallics, so it will not hurt your cats or O2 sensors...

100 octane on a hot dyno day should keep the KR sensors at bay... =;-]

 

[S-TEE]

As a general rule of thumb, you can expect 45 RWHP loss through the ZO6 drivetrain (transmission, axles, gears, etc). The ZO6 transmission, due to their design and implementation, do cause a higher loss than expected. That said, the horsepower numbers being quoted are all in the ballpark of an expected 360 RWHP car. 345 to 365 RWHP are all close (within 4%).

Dyno runs can and will vary between cars and we all know that. One thing that helps is if the folks doing your dyno runs also provide the corrected RWHP based upon the temp, humidity at sea level for the day you dyno'd your car.

Mine is currently in for mods and it started out in the 330-350 RWHP range depending upon the conditions stated above. We'll see what happens once dyno'd again.

Quick and easy mods for performance on a ZO6? Haven't seen any yet. These cars require serious work for serious horsepower. After over a year of reading, studying and listening, the typical mods that may have helped the LT1s and LS1s don't work for the ZO6. I've heard and read the claims, but no one could provide the proof. If you want horsepower, go with the performance mods that cost $$$ and take time to install. There are no "short cuts" for the ZO6.

IMHO,
Scat Rat

Oh pooh! EVERYONE knows a Type R sticker is good for at LEAST 20 HP! And they're cheap! :L

 

[*89x2*]

I had a friend Dyno his Zzz last week and it turned 350 Horses at the wheels. That is about an 8.5% difference between the crankshaft Vs rear wheels. I thought that there would only be about a 5% difference since these cars have manual trannys. I was at Carlisle last summer and saw a stock Zzz turn 380 horses....which would be about a 5% difference and IMO would be about right. Is there that much difference between each car?

I saw the sheet on an '02 Z06 - it was at 356 rwhp

Hope that helps