whats the similarities from a zz4 cam and a L98?

[Nick90vetteguy]

wist stock 2.59 gears or 3.05 gears and both mildy modified engines with one with a zz4 cam and another with a stock L98 is there REALLY a difference in performance?

 

[vetteoz]

both mildy modified engines with one with a zz4 cam ?

Depends what mods you are talking about.
ZZ4 has a lot more lift to take advantage of extra air flow IF you have intake mods to suit

Think about
L98 with TPI makes 250Hp
Very similar spec ZZ4 engine ( same 113 heads as L98 ) makes 355Hp with a carb

 

[TedC]

The L98 is restricted on the intake side. Think of the intake design as being optimized for a 305 vs. 350. That is why it produces such great low end torque on a 350 and then goes flat after 4500 RPM. Performance would suffer using a zz4 cam with stock intake and a 2.59 rear end. At a minimum, you would want a 3.07 rear, modified intake and customized prom (ECM). I've owned an auto 1988 with 2.59 and did not like it (1/4 mile performance was in the upper 14 second range). My 1989 has the 3.07 performance axle (performace is in the low 14 second range with stock tires). The 3.07 is the axle GM selected for the best overall performance axle for a stock L98 and auto. Traction remains my biggest issue in off the line acceleration. It spins the tires with ease from a dead stop and produces a strong chirp (patch) going from 1st to 2nd. Two MPG difference between the different axles at 70 MPH.

 

[strokin383-c4]

wist stock 2.59 gears or 3.05 gears and both mildy modified engines with one with a zz4 cam and another with a stock L98 is there REALLY a difference in performance?

I'm using the ZZ409 CAM at the moment in my 86. If I were to not have switched over the the Miniram system, my power would have only been a 20-40 hp increase range, and really suffering through GM's bottleneck design of the TPI system. However with this cam at a 520 lift and a 235 duration and the Miniram intake, ive increased over 85hp+.

 

[vetteoz]

Performance would suffer using a zz4 cam with stock intake and a 2.59 rear end. At a minimum, you would want a 3.07 rear, modified intake and customized prom (ECM).

 

[Nick90vetteguy]

Thats what im looking for! a low 13- high 12 sec car, does this cam work with with the stock intake manifold/penelum or is the SLP runners a advantage?

 

[vetteoz]

does this cam work with with the stock intake manifold/penelum or is the SLP runners a advantage?

Refer post # 3

 

[Nick90vetteguy]

okk, modified intake as a miniram or just large tube runner with Siamese base?

 

[vetteoz]

okk, modified intake as a miniram or just large tube runner with Siamese base?

You would use a different ( bigger ) cam with a MR.
Bottom line
ZZ4 cam is a good cam used because it is available cheap as a takeout from crate engines but there are better cams available designed for each different TPI intake if paying full $$$

 

[boomdriver]

You would use a different ( bigger ) cam with a MR.
Bottom line
ZZ4 cam is a good cam used because it is available cheap as a takeout from crate engines but there are better cams
available designed for each different TPI intake if paying full $$$

Perfect example of what most people do wrong....assume that buying different brand name parts of one brand or another will work well together.
The purpose and intent has to be defined before a cam, heads, intake or tune can be designed for use together.

I know of too many guys that bought some nice heads, somebodys elses intake, some other cam that came from somewhere else and cannot figure out why it does not run worth a crap when all these odd-ball parts are bolted together.
A "build" is the product of design, not some random accidental combination of parts.

Identify the intent, build with intention.

 

[vetteoz]

The purpose and intent has to be defined before a cam, heads, intake or tune can be designed for use together.

A quick Google search will bring up any number of TPI builds with dyno results so there is no need to re-invent the wheel.
Someone else has done the hard work ( be it corporate or private ) to make a working combo.

 

[Nick90vetteguy]

A quick Google search will bring up any number of TPI builds with dyno results so there is no need to re-invent the wheel.
Someone else has done the hard work ( be it corporate or private ) to make a working combo.
In my case above, I used the ZZ4 cam in a quicky budget build because it was on the shelf and I had other complementary parts that came together with good results.
Would it have gone better with another cam........?

hi vetteoz ur setup is similar to what im looking for, but i think i wanna keep my stock gears not sure, im thinkin about a zz4 cam and a tune i heard PCM does good work, but i dont know what to tell them, just something with more of a low bottom end torque launch with a lil more mid range.

I really do appreciate you guys taking the time to respond to my posts though

 

[vetteoz]

just something with more of a low bottom end torque launch with a lil more mid range.

3.07 gears will get best result for you if you don't already have them

 

[Nick90vetteguy]

Ok, ill look into that thank you

 

[boomdriver]

Ok, ill look into that thank you

Agreed...

see what gears you have now, (not knowing the specifics of your car I dunno) and go a bit lower. You might sacrifice 200 rpm cruising...with a slight reduction in MPG but the improvement in standing start will be dramatic. It'll feel like more power where its just more power available to the wheels. Traction then becomes the issue. Theres no need to go crazy...you certainly don;t want to be spinning it at 2600 to get 55-60 mph...if you use it as a DD or a hiway car. You'll pay at the pump again and again and again...:eyerole

Theres lots of other cool little things to free up power thats already there and give more to the wheels...pulleys, elec water pumps, weight reduction etc.

 

[Marv02]

I sell you my Howards 214/214 duration 447/447 lift 111 C/L 1000 to 5200 RPM range Hyd Flat tappet cam 1.5 Aluminin full roller rocker arms, Comp Cams harden Push rods, and a chip used for 3000 miles for a good price in about a month LOL.

I now built my self a new 383 instead I dont need the old stuff now except ythechip until I get the new one next month.

 

[Nick90vetteguy]

3.07 gears will get best result for you if you don't already have them

how about 3.33 gears? will i be spinning to much hnoes

 

[vetteoz]

how about 3.33 gears? will i be spinning to much

Spinning has nothing to do with it
Go too low in gears and TPI based engine runs out of revs too fast .Great accel but no top end.
You will blow some guy in a Honda off at the lights and 100yd down the road he will breeze on past you because you have run out of puff
Even with the cam and engine mods above my example made best power shifting under 5K.

Use one of the many online speed calculators to compare revs and speed

 

[TedC]

What are your performance goals? Stop light performance, 1/8 mile, 1/4 mile, top speed ... ?
Knowing this will help you deteremine what should be the best modifications to make. On my stock L98, any gear higher than 3.07 is not be a wise price performance investment. The reason I like the L98 is the low end torque curve. With the 3.07 axle it will pull off the line as good as an LT1 or LS1. Just ask me how I know. However, after the 1/8 mile, the L98 is ready for skilled nursing and a massive O2 treatment. My performance goals is a great daily driver that can hold its own from light to light. If you get too crazy with the rear end axle, then you will wish for more gears to maintain the power band. Find a performance modeling program to learn how much HP and gears you really need to acheive your performance goals. If a low 1/4 mile run became my goal, I would add up all the modifications required vs. finding a newer vette or other car that already has that performance level. Yes, you can turn an L98 to a screamer, but it does not come cheap. I know someone who just purchased an excellent condition 1998 C5 with 70,000 miles for 15K. He said it was a buyers market on C5s. I could say the same for the C4s.