Wheel Alignment

[Rufus1050]

Took my 85 in today to an alignment shop to have everything checked. They aligned the back wheels first before starting on the front. Everything was okay until they checked the front. I was told that the measurements were way off the charts and that the car had probably been wrecked. They would try to pull the frame to see if they could get the upper control arm back far enough to align it within specks. I called them later this afternoon and was told that they were having problems. I never thought about the fact that the car has 91 ZR-1 wheels rather than the stock ones. Question...would the fact that stock wheels have 32mm offsets while the ZR-1's have 56mm offsets (Front only; Rears have 36mm) in anyway affect the measurements needed to set the correct alignment. I believe that they do but would defer to some of the more knowledgeable owners who may have a good deal more experience with this than me. What do you say? :confused :ugh

 

[G Winter]

I always thought align the front first then the back. When ever I have watched that is the way they did it. As far as the frame goes there are places that are measured from on the frame. If that is correct I don't see how they would have to pull it any farther than that. The diff offset would put diff load on the a arms and the spring. But that shouldn't be a problem. Are these people familiar with corvettes ???

 

[jwilliams]

When you perform a 4 wheel alignment, it's rear camber, rear toe, front caster, front camber, front toe.

But why in the he!! did they not see the fact that the front was way out when they took readings? This should have been obvious if they are using a current computerized alignment rack and have a clue as to what they are doing. Before they start yanking on the frame did they happen to check for things like bent control arms, ball joints damaged, etc???? Ask them to perform an SAI sweep and get the SAI and included angles. If they give you blank stares, get your car the heck out of there and find a shop with a tech who really knows how to align a corvette.

 

[wishuwerehere82]

No, it doesn't sound right. The wheel offset should not affect the camber, or toe in. It will affect the caster angle when they measure it for steering angle. But if it's not doing anything bad why change it? They should be able to set the camber and toe in by changing shims on the upper control arms and rotating the tie rod ends.

They will do the rear alignment first and then the front.
I would advise not letting them pull the frame unless they can demonstrate and produce measurements where the frame is bent. It could be bad bushings or bent control arm shaft instead of the frame itself.
If they are not using a laser alignment system, walk away!
Just my .02.

 

[redc4corvette]

Dude I think you have a problem with the alignment company.
The run out from front to rear should have told them the off set on the wheels and should have advised that the larger off set should go to the rear to set up the car right.
When they set up the arms on the outside of the wheels front to rear you set the wheels according to the front to rear run out.
The frame will show an inexperienced mechanic the car is dog tailing and the frame is subject to bad run out .
the front and rear have to be shot at the same time and they need to compensate for the drivers weight.
These cars are not for the new mechanic to be playing with.
I would not be surprised if when you get your car back ,when you stomp on the gas it makes a quick left turn and you almost crash it.
owner beware!!

 

[Rufus1050]

Alignment Update

I've read the initial 4 replies to my original thread and I must say that they sorta scared me...they are not using any modern equipment to do the alignment. Matter of fact it's Bear type that is basically fixed with a pit area that allows them to walk under the car and take care of the adjustments. There's no laser system at this place. I haven't heard from the frame guy who I called last night to let him know about the wheels. They're closed today for Mardi Gras and will re-open tomorrow...guess I'll have to wait until then to hear the score. Thanks for the info and I'll report back then.

 

[jwilliams]

That thing's an antique, BEAR hasn't produced alignment equipment in years....

 

[Ken]

Guldstrand aligned mine with a level floor, a couple of straight-edges, and some measurement tape.

 

[wishuwerehere82]

Yeah, but he knows how to do it with a level floor, a couple of straight-edges, and some measurement tape.

Pulling the frame sets off alarms in my head.:ugh
Having too many dealers leaving me with a near undriveable car too many times.

 

[jwilliams]

Yeah, but he knows how to do it with a level floor, a couple of straight-edges, and some measurement tape.

Ken, you're correct. Several of the guys that I autocross with run Prepared vette's, basically a GT-1 legal car, use strings, level floors, camber gauges and toe bars to set their cars up. The point I'm making is that most current alignment shops are going to use current computerized alignment equipment and the fact that they appear to be using obsolete equipment would be of concern. What has me worried is that they are so quick to want to pull on the frame. It takes alot of damage to bend a frame. Things like ball joints, control arms, spindles and steering knuckles tend to bend before the frame does. If the frame is bent, I'd bet there are suspension pieces that are damaged too. I doubt the car would be very driveable if these conditions existed in the car. Please don't feel as though I'm questioning your knowledge or the point you make. The Guldstrand name is well known. I have monitored the CAC for over a year now and I see your posts often and have found several of your posts helpful. I am trying to pass along my own area of expertise. I happen to be fairly knowledgeable about vehicle alignment and tires, as this is what I do for a living.

 

[Hib Halverson]

Took my 85 in today to an alignment shop to have everything checked. They aligned the back wheels first before starting on the front. Everything was okay until they checked the front. I was told that the measurements were way off the charts and that the car had probably been wrecked. They would try to pull the frame to see if they could get the upper control arm back far enough to align it within specks. I called them later this afternoon and was told that they were having problems. I never thought about the fact that the car has 91 ZR-1 wheels rather than the stock ones. Question...would the fact that stock wheels have 32mm offsets while the ZR-1's have 56mm offsets (Front only; Rears have 36mm) in anyway affect the measurements needed to set the correct alignment. I believe that they do but would defer to some of the more knowledgeable owners who may have a good deal more experience with this than me. What do you say? :confused :ugh

Wheel offset does not affect front end alignment.

 

[Ken]

jwilliams (Won't you please tell me your name someday? :L), I meant nothing by my comment about how Dick does it; please don't take offense. Mine was more or less a comment on how much we rely on computer technology nowadays when it comes to working on cars. A lot of today's so-called "technicians" couldn't hold a candle to the mechanics of days past.

You sound like someone who knows what he's doing and who'd take care of people's cars. Rufus should take a vacation and visit Northern California. :L

 

[redc4corvette]

Ken your talking about an alignment and you know as well as I that,the new mechanics have no idea of the geomerity involved. They just want to guess and blame the car rather then go to old school tech.
Corvetts flex more than the adverage car and as we all know how many cars get 3 inches higher in the air after you jack them up and put them back on the ground?
Not a corvette.
If it takes 5 computers to run the car ,then it takes one to align it.

 

[black_81_vette]

Well back a few years ago I used to work in a shop that had a Hunter D-111 machine and I did all the suspension and allighnments for the corvettes that were sent to us from the corvette shop down the road.As far as im concerned it dont mater how old the equipment is its the guy doin the work thats gotta know whats going on with the car hes involved with. Also ive seen these new guys ***** about the fact when they cant cant get the specs in line.90 % of the time its some thing on the order of a worn part that was overlooked or a mis diagnosis.and another thing any tech worth his coveralls knows to ask questions and look at the sighns of how the car is being drove.Looking at the tires tells a story that dont lie. any way if some jackass wanted to beat and stretch a frame wich does weaken a allready weakened structure id find a new shop asap because if they stretch it doin a proper job will be next to impossible after their done.

 

[jwilliams]

As far as im concerned it dont mater how old the equipment is its the guy doin the work thats gotta know whats going on with the car hes involved with. Also ive seen these new guys ***** about the fact when they cant cant get the specs in line.90 % of the time its some thing on the order of a worn part that was overlooked or a mis diagnosis.

I should clarify, old equipment can be a sign that the shop does not care enought to invest in itself and upgrade equipment. You hit the nail on the head, the tech gotta know what he's doing. I want to know whats bent. In an earlier post I mentioned things like SAI and included angles. These measurements will help to find bent parts like a spindle, knuckle, etc. Go ask your average alignment tech what these are and I'll bet you get a blank look.

Ken, the first name is Jay, I'd love to let Dick loose on my 89, he is the kind of guy that has forgotten more than I could hope to know about vette's. When I meet people like this I sit back and listen, cuz I always learn. The guys I autocross corvettes with have given me several brain dumps, and places like CAC are a great source of info. We also get several industry mags at my shop and I usually find one or two good things in them. I have been lucky enough to have worked with several seasoned guys who were front end guru's. Plus seeing the F'ed up stuff from body shops gives you a crash course in finding bent stuff.
Jay

 

[PLRX]

http://www.hitmanalignment.com/index.html

Do it yourself, if you:
-have the time
-have the 15 ft long plus corvette lenght garage
-tools
-time
-patience
-love for the game

 

[Rufus1050]

Wheel Alignment is complete

Just wanted to update those who responded to my thread that "Goldfinger" is back home and handles like a dream. I mean after spending $352.54 it better handle more better huh? I'm moving on now to see about getting him painted. Thanks to all my vette buddies for your comments, suggestions, etc. I must admit that I was a little skeptical about these guys and their equipment but heard today from some folks whose opinon I value that they do the best work in town. I'll take that for what it may be worth. I'm happy!

 

[wishuwerehere82]

All's well that ends well. Glad it turned out OK, we were starting to get worried.