Z06 Photos

[talonsecurity]

Latest Z06 Photos:

Sorry, until the photo's posted here are determined NOT to be part of the GM Embargo they will remain off the Corvette Action Center. Please reference this THREAD

Bud Dougherty
Forums Administrator

 

[invinceablevett]

.......Yellow is now my favorite color

 

[talonsecurity]

Latest Z06 Photos:

Sorry, until the photo's posted here are determined NOT to be part of the GM Embargo they will remain off the Corvette Action Center. Please reference this THREAD

Bud Dougherty
Forums Administrator

Sorry about that. I did not think there was an embargo on these photos. If anyone wants to email me I will send them the link.


Regards

 

[bluecoupe]

Sorry about that. I did not think there was an embargo on these photos. If anyone wants to email me I will send them the link.


Regards

I saw the pictures on another site. The brakes and wheels look (and must work) fantastic. What's up with that Dodge Neon SRT4 hood scoop? The rear fender flares look like an after thought. Something out of a 1960s speed shop. They could have widened the body to look like the C6R. The C6 front end design was not well thought out. It looks nice enough (without a front plate mounted) but it must not pull in enough air making that cheap looking hood scoop necessary. The Z06 looks like a major step forward in performance but I don't know why GM rushed to replace the C5 and C5 based Z06 so soon.

The C6 in general is very nice but it still needs work. Some of the choices or trade-offs are just plain mistakes. For example the "standard" C6s should come with the Z51 brake rotors and tires. The small rotors look wimpy with the big wheels. Using some of the "old" C5 color choices was another mistake. "All new" should mean just that. I know they want to keep the cost down but that would have been easier if they made some the the gadgetry optional. GM should have given the C6 a couple of more years of development and testing. In general, aside from the performance, the C6 looks like an "also ran" compared to other brands not the cutting edge masterpiece it should have been. (If these photos are acurate.) The Z06 without the FRC body makes it look like a modified C6 coupe not a purpose built machine like the C5 based Z06.

Things will change at GM because people are voting with their wallets. All you have to do is look at how many SSRs there are sitting on dealer lots. The Corvette will do ok because of the following it has and its performance but I'll bet the sales are not what GM really hoped for. The concern about dealers charging over MSRP has quickly disappeared as well as the ebay offers for a place on the list. Hopefully GM will learn from this and not give up so there will be a C7 someday. If not the "best Vette yet" may be the last Vette ever.

 

[Rob]

I saw the pictures on another site. The brakes and wheels look (and must work) fantastic. What's up with that Dodge Neon SRT4 hood scoop? The rear fender flares look like an after thought. Something out of a 1960s speed shop. They could have widened the body to look like the C6R. The C6 front end design was not well thought out. It looks nice enough (without a front plate mounted) but it must not pull in enough air making that cheap looking hood scoop necessary. The Z06 looks like a major step forward in performance but I don't know why GM rushed to replace the C5 and C5 based Z06 so soon.

I'm not sure I agree with you here. The C5 was in production for 8 years. In the automotive world, that's kind of long for a model before a redesign is done. The C4 was in production from 1984 to 1996 - 13 years and many people criticize GM for running the C4 as long as they did.

The C5 was a great model and a major step up and forward from the C4.

Now regarding the C6 Z06 - I don't agree with the hood scoop or the flares looking like an afterthought. To me: that ridiculous hood scoop that you see on the new (but previous generation) Mustang Mach 1s is the pinnacle of cheap-looking afterthought, and the plastic flares that were tacked on to the rear quarters of 1996 Corvette Grand Sports was of poor taste. -- just my opinion.

Using some of the "old" C5 color choices was another mistake. "All new" should mean just that.

Why? Many automotive manufacturers carry over the same paints from generation to generation. If a new model looks good in a previous generation's colors, and those colors sold well in the past - why not keep them? Why spend the money on all new colors, just to add value to the statement: "all new"? Personally, I'd rather have seen GM spend the money to make the C6 even more radical looking from the C5 than waste money on pretty new paint colors, but...that's just me. Give me new engineering and design for my money - don't give me new paint colors just so I can say "all new".

I know they want to keep the cost down but that would have been easier if they made some the the gadgetry optional. GM should have given the C6 a couple of more years of development and testing. In general, aside from the performance, the C6 looks like an "also ran" compared to other brands not the cutting edge masterpiece it should have been. (If these photos are acurate.) The Z06 without the FRC body makes it look like a modified C6 coupe not a purpose built machine like the C5 based Z06.

I agree with keeping more of the gadgetry optional, but unfortunately, that's all I agree with.

I'm not sure GM would have seen enough benefit by holding off the release of the C6 for a couple more years of development and testing, but I'm also not an automotive engineer, so I can't really say for sure...

As far as the C5 Z06 being a purpose built machine....that depends upon how you look at it. The C5 coupe had a better coefficient of drag than the Z06 did because of the shape of the rear half of the car. That's why the top speed of the Z06 was less than the coupe.

Also, let's not forget what the original intent of the C5 FRC (AKA "Billy Bob") was: to be a stripped down, cheaper entry-level Corvette. I had heard stories that the reason why GM turned the FRC into the Z06 is because the 1999-2000 FRC was not selling well at all and didn't meet their expectations. They supposedly had a contract with whoever manufactured the bodies - for so many units to be bought from that manufacturer. Rather than lose their shirt - they came out with the Z06. Now....all of this is nothing more than rumor and "hear-say" that I heard from a few different people that do not work for GM. It could be fact - and it could be total BS. Who's to say - and we may never know the whole story. So....as far as the Z06 being a purpose-built Corvette...well...to some extent - yes. The thinner windshield...LS6 engine, lower weight....etc., but if the "Billy-Bob" story is true - then technically, the Z06 was an afterthought and a means of turning a poor-selling idea into one hell of a hot ticket item.

In my opinion, the C6 Z06 is and will be a much more purpose-built Corvette than the previous generation C5 Z06 was. The performance of the C6 Z06 will greatly exceed that of the base model C6 in every performance category - including top speed. Corvette Engineering also has all the years of experience from racing the C5 to use for the C6 Z06 and supposedly, much of what they learned not only went into the C6 Z06, but also the base model C6. Considering that the C5 Racing program really didn't get off the ground till late 1998 I believe - that really didn't give them that much experience that could have been incorporated into the C5 Z06. So again...in my opinion, the C6 Z06, is a much more purpose-built machine, than the C5 Z06 was.

Things will change at GM because people are voting with their wallets. All you have to do is look at how many SSRs there are sitting on dealer lots. The Corvette will do ok because of the following it has and its performance but I'll bet the sales are not what GM really hoped for. The concern about dealers charging over MSRP has quickly disappeared as well as the ebay offers for a place on the list. Hopefully GM will learn from this and not give up so there will be a C7 someday. If not the "best Vette yet" may be the last Vette ever.

As far as things changing at GM - I'm confident that we will see things changing, and I hope they continue - and more rapidly. The SSR - in my opinion, is a blister. It does absolutely nothing for me and it's too little - too late. It's bulbous, it's heavy, and it's coming at a time when Daimler Chrysler has all but pushed the envelope of nostalgia to its limits. The SSR is something we should have seen come out of GM 10 years ago. Not now.

As far as C6 sales - I have a feeling you may eat crow here. Last I heard, initial C6 sales exceeded GM's expectations - but don't quote me on that. My personal prediction is that C6 sales are going to exceed the sales levels we saw during the C5 years. The C5 is a great car and still looks cool - the C6 has character and emotion that the C5 did not have in its design. It looks more appealing - but that's just my personal taste talking. Combine the better design with better performance, better quality and increased European market infiltration - and you're looking at a great potential for higher sales levels. Time will tell...

 

[Yoda]

After discussion with staff here at The Corvette Action Center, we agree to enforce not posting of GM's Embargo Photo's of the New Z06 here at the Corvette Action Center Community.

We feel it is the responsibilty of other websites to honor or not honor GM Embargo Photo's and it is not our place to police their decision. Remaining true to our word, practice's and policies we offer Thread 1 & Thread 2.

Bud Dougherty
Forums Administrator

 

[bluecoupe]

I'm not sure I agree with you here. The C5 was in production for 8 years. In the automotive world, that's kind of long for a model before a redesign is done. The C4 was in production from 1984 to 1996 - 13 years and many people criticize GM for running the C4 as long as they did....

Eight years may seem long in the automotive world but in the Corvette world it doesn't see long at all.
C3 = 14 years
C2 = 5 years but used same chassis and many parts for C3

As far as the C5 Z06 being a purpose built machine....that depends upon how you look at it. The C5 coupe had a better coefficient of drag than the Z06 did because of the shape of the rear half of the car. That's why the top speed of the Z06 was less than the coupe.

Also, let's not forget what the original intent of the C5 FRC (AKA "Billy Bob") was: to be a stripped down, cheaper entry-level Corvette. I had heard stories that the reason why GM turned the FRC into the Z06 is because the 1999-2000 FRC was not selling well at all and didn't meet their expectations. They supposedly had a contract with whoever manufactured the bodies - for so many units to be bought from that manufacturer. Rather than lose their shirt - they came out with the Z06. Now....all of this is nothing more than rumor and "hear-say" that I heard from a few different people that do not work for GM. It could be fact - and it could be total BS. Who's to say - and we may never know the whole story. So....as far as the Z06 being a purpose-built Corvette...well...to some extent - yes. The thinner windshield...LS6 engine, lower weight....etc., but if the "Billy-Bob" story is true - then technically, the Z06 was an afterthought and a means of turning a poor-selling idea into one hell of a hot ticket item. ...

Z06 had taller gears too that may have effected top speed. The type of racing most Z06s are used for does not required 175MPH. The real benefit from the FRC body was the stiffer structure. (see Hib's Article for more:
http://www.idavette.net/hibz06/page2.htm) Maybe the C6 was considered stiff enough to negate the need and extra cost of a seperate roof design.

As far as C6 sales - I have a feeling you may eat crow here. Last I heard, initial C6 sales exceeded GM's expectations - but don't quote me on that. My personal prediction is that C6 sales are going to exceed the sales levels we saw during the C5 years. The C5 is a great car and still looks cool - the C6 has character and emotion that the C5 did not have in its design. It looks more appealing - but that's just my personal taste talking. Combine the better design with better performance, better quality and increased European market infiltration - and you're looking at a great potential for higher sales levels. Time will tell...

I want you to be right and I hope crow tastes like chicken.
I do think the C6 is a very worthy Corvette but many C5 owners I've spoken to are not as motivated to buy a C6 as they would have been if GM just went a few steps further. I really hope Corvette continues its success I'd like to see a 75th Anniversary.

 

[BigMike5]

Autoweek- C6

Since the Z06 is the cover picture, and major story in Autoweek's current issue which came in the mail today, isn't an "embargo" overtaken by events? As for all the bruhaha over the spy photos, etc., the sound you hear from me is a big yawn. What is the big deal? Some minor appearance mods to the body of the coupe. OK, yawn. Anyway, it all seems much ado about very little.

 

[Tom73]

Since the Z06 is the cover picture, and major story in Autoweek's current issue which came in the mail today, isn't an "embargo" overtaken by events?

I just looked at Autoweeks web site and that cover shot is an "illustration" not a photo.

tom...

 

[Rob]

I just looked at Autoweeks web site and that cover shot is an "illustration" not a photo.

tom...

Exactly. It's a PhotoChop and not the real thing.

 

[Hib Halverson]

Exactly. It's a PhotoChop and not the real thing.

Yeah, it's a photo illustration but think about it, Rob....why would Autoweek do that?

It's how AW keeps itself in reasonably good graces with GM. Dutch Mandel is pretty smart. He has one of his A.D.s look at all the other Inet images of 06Z06es then modify one of GM's images of a base C6 (passed out to the press last year at the C6 intro) into a Z06. AW doesn't break any embargo, doesn't use any copyrighted materai but DOES publish an image (and correct, at that) of the Z06. Pretty sharp if you ask me. Too bad all of we wizards here at the CAC didn't think of that. Maybe we CAC members spend too much time talking about the Z06 and not enough time thinking of cool ideas like that?

Since the Z06 is the cover picture, and major story in Autoweek's current issue which came in the mail today, isn't an "embargo" overtaken by events? As for all the bruhaha over the spy photos, etc., the sound you hear from me is a big yawn. What is the big deal? Some minor appearance mods to the body of the coupe. OK, yawn. Anyway, it all seems much ado about very little.

In this case, I agree.

In the past I've supported the CAC's policy of not posting images that were either stolen or otherwise misappropriated. An example would be the GM image of the C6 which showed up on digitalcorvettes.com a year ago with that site claiming, by putting it's name across the image, it as its own material...or the copyrighted, "spy shot" of a C6 taken during the filming of the "Car Carrier" commercial in San Fransisco.

At this point in time, with some of the 06Z06 images, the situation seems a bit different, at http://www.structuredchaos.net/images/Z06/ , a for-the-most-part uninspiring forum site which claims 552 registered members who've keyed-in a grand total of 207 posts (173 of them are listed as OT with part of that OT being racial slurs and porn) and which would be totally useless and boring---except for the Z06 images. You have to ask yourself why these images, which seem to be properly prepared, web-specific versions of GM advertising or media art (very much like what we B-list media wonks find in the "low res" folder on GM press kit CDs), show-up on a totally obscure web site but, in spite of all the talk (incl. that in AutoWeek) about GM enforcing its embargo and copyright, at this writing (08:12 PST 12/13) are still in that directory on that site, after almost five days of having the URL plastered all over the Internet. Again...WELL....DUH....I think General Motors probably leaked those images.

To a certain extent, I agree with BigMike5. Any embargo GM has on images it has distributed recently to media has been overtaken by events. Plus, IMO, the images on the "structuredchaos" site are not covered by the GM embargo, anyway if they are leaked by GM itself. I disagree with both Rob and Bud...the Z06 images should be posted here on CAC and, in fact, the CAC should have beat AW to the punch and done an article on the car and the images as soon as they were leaked.

GM should have given the C6 a couple of more years of development and testing. In general, aside from the performance, the C6 looks like an "also ran" compared to other brands not the cutting edge masterpiece it should have been. (If these photos are acurate.) The Z06 without the FRC body makes it look like a modified C6 coupe not a purpose built machine like the C5 based Z06.

Clearly, bluecoupe's in the reality distortion field that most people who've never driven the C6 but critisize it find themselves in. Also, sometimes these fields are formed around C5 owners angry that they no longer drive the latest and greatest Corvette.

I should add that bluecoupe's understanding of the 01-04 Z06 is a little bit faulty. Having covered the Z06 since it was introduced in 2000, I can tell you the C5 Z06 was not purpose-built at all. It was a very clever derivation of a previous model, the 99-00 hardtop or (FRC). For 01, GM replaced the LS1 with the LS6, added a wide-ratio six-speed, deleted a few convenience options, changed the front stab. bar, the rear spring and the shocks, added rear brake cooling, different wheels and tires then rebadged it as a Z06...hardly a purpose-built model.

Actually, thought it will take the derivation process a little farther, the C6 Z06 won't really be purpose built, either.

Hopefully GM will learn from this and not give up so there will be a C7 someday. If not the "best Vette yet" may be the last Vette ever.

My guess is bluecoupe will be eating those words. We'll see in about a year's time.

 

[bluecoupe]

Clearly, bluecoupe's in the reality distortion field that most people who've never driven the C6 but critisize it find themselves in. Also, sometimes these fields are formed around C5 owners angry that they no longer drive the latest and greatest Corvette.

I should add that bluecoupe's understanding of the 01-04 Z06 is a little bit faulty. Having covered the Z06 since it was introduced in 2000, I can tell you the C5 Z06 was not purpose-built at all. It was a very clever derivation of a previous model, the 99-00 hardtop or (FRC). For 01, GM replaced the LS1 with the LS6, added a wide-ratio six-speed, deleted a few convenience options, changed the front stab. bar, the rear spring and the shocks, added rear brake cooling, different wheels and tires then rebadged it as a Z06...hardly a purpose-built model.

Actually, thought it will take the derivation process a little farther, the C6 Z06 won't really be purpose built, either.

I agree the C6 is a technically better machine than the C5. My comment was meant to infer that the FRC body of the Z06 made it look purpose built compared to the targa coupe and convertible by virtue of being different and having a non opening top. I understand that it may have been a coincidence or accident that the FRC was turned into the Z06 based on poor sales and a stiffer lighter body. But like the Cobra Daytona, the mid-year Sting Ray Coupes and the closed top racing machines back in the day it just looked racier in my opinion. My preference is not based solely on a spec sheet or a distortion field of any kind but on my personal taste. To assume my judgment is distorted because it disagrees with yours is presumptuous and insulting. My C5 is my third Corvette. I had owned two C3s before and all were bought used. My first Corvette purchase was over 20 years ago. I preferred the C3 to the C4 not because the C4 wasn't a much better machine but because I liked the C3's style better and didn't like the digital gauges and high door sills. The C5 addressed these issues and I liked it so I bought one as soon as I was able. I don't think having the latest and greatest matters much to most Corvette enthusiasts especially the owners that can't easily afford to buy a new one. That is one of the great things about all Corvettes is that they may get older but they never fall out of style and never fails to please the senses.

My guess is bluecoupe will be eating those words. We'll see in about a year's time.

Huh? I said "Hopefully GM will learn from this and not give up so there will be a C7 someday." Why would anyone hope or expect me to eat those optimistic words? Now you are just being mean.

Frank (bluecoupe)

 

[jimmyb]

Frank,
I wanted to weigh in on the sales of the C6 from the deep south's view. You state that sales are a disappointment thus far and that may be the case up north. Kerbeck certainly seems to have plenty of cars for sale (at $2500 off MSRP thru last Sat.). Down here, the situation is different. I ordered my convertible on 9/18/04, target production period is now 1/24 - 2/7/05. If sales are slow, I should have my car sooner than 2 months from now, and fully 4 to 4.5 months after convertible production started. As far as GM not pushing the envelope far enough with the C6, that can be said for EVERY new car that ever comes out. However, I spent about 3 hours this past Saturday tinkering with a C6 coupe and I must say that ALL of my complaints with the C5 (I have owned 2, '98 and '01) were addressed. The C5 was a car searching for refinement, the C6 answers that issue. I'm of an age where I want certain levels of comfort and refinement, hence, no Lotus Elise in my future!

 

[Hib Halverson]

I agree the C6 is a technically better machine than the C5. My comment was meant to infer that the FRC body of the Z06 made it look purpose built compared to the targa coupe and convertible by virtue of being different and having a non opening top.
(snip)

Ok.
Now I understand. You were not stating a fact but, rather, your observation of a styling inference. I agree, the notchback coupe body style was unique, however, the C5 Z06 was not intended as a top speed performer because of it's lower ratio fifth gear and aerodynamics so it was acceptable to use the slow-selling FRC as the start of the Z06. Conversely, the C6 Z06 is intended to raise the bar for top speed (200 mph---amazing, in this country with its litigous culture, that GM Legal went for that) and, as a result, had to share the fastback coupe's superior aero. Thus, the C6 Z06 takes the core exterior design of the base coupe but retains the fixed-roof feature of the C5 version.

Huh? I said "Hopefully GM will learn from this and not give up so there will be a C7 someday." Why would anyone hope or expect me to eat those optimistic words? Now you are just being mean.

Frank (bluecoupe)

"Eating ones words" is a cliche not to be taken literally and my suggestion that, figuratively, you may do that is because GM has no "lesson to learn" from the C6 Z06 exterior design and that whether or not there will be a "C7" is not dependant on its decision to use the C6 coupe profile for the new Z06.

 

[Vettelt193]

[/size][/font][/font][/color]

"Eating ones words" is a cliche not to be taken literally and my suggestion that, figuratively, you may do that is because GM has no "lesson to learn" from the C6 Z06 exterior design and that whether or not there will be a "C7" is not dependant on its decision to use the C6 coupe profile for the new Z06.

If the new Z06 is in the range of 70 grand, why would someone buy one over a Viper or other semi-exotic(Even though the C6 has viper styling cues IMO)?

Assuming the pictures I have seen online are the new Z06, it is just a lightly modified C6 (visually at least)... a car I am going to see every single day riding on the road.. I am sure many C6 owners will modify their cars to make it look like the new Z06 (just as many C5 owners have done) which further takes its (mildly) unique look away... I can't tell you the last time I saw a Viper on the road, so that is what I would plunk my 70 grand down on... because 70 grand should buy you a car that is different than a car you see every day.

That is why the new Z06 could cause a problem for the next generation corvette... it may not be unique enough, while being as costly as a unique car which could kill sales long-term.

Of course, this is still based on speculation on what the new Z looks like and costs.

 

[bluecoupe]

Ok.
Now I understand. You were not stating a fact but, rather, your observation of a styling inference...

Hib,

Of course, I was only speaking subjectively. There is no way I am going to debate with you over the technical and performance aspects. I've read too many of your articles to try that.

...GM has no "lesson to learn" from the C6 Z06 exterior design and that whether or not there will be a "C7" is not dependant on its decision to use the C6 coupe profile for the new Z06.

Hib,

My point is if sales are poor and the product does not meet the needs of the buyer it will no longer make sense to produce it. If these photos of the Z06 are correct then the Z06 has lost some of its uniqueness compared to the "regular" C6 coupe and to my eyes it will be just a hopped up Corvette coupe.

Frank,
...Down here, the situation is different. I ordered my convertible on 9/18/04, target production period is now 1/24 - 2/7/05... I'm of an age where I want certain levels of comfort and refinement, hence, no Lotus Elise in my future!

JimmyB,

In many ways, even though I have doubts, I hope I am wrong about the sales and they turn out to be great. I want to see the Corvette continue to evolve. I just don't think funny membrane electric door handles and big plastic front plate mounts are a refinement.

If the new Z06 is in the range of 70 grand, why would someone buy one over a Viper or other semi-exotic(Even though the C6 has viper styling cues IMO)? ...
...I can't tell you the last time I saw a Viper on the road, so that is what I would plunk my 70 grand down on... because 70 grand should buy you a car that is different than a car you see every day.

That is why the new Z06 could cause a problem for the next generation corvette... it may not be unique enough, while being as costly as a unique car which could kill sales long-term.
Of course, this is still based on speculation on what the new Z looks like and costs.

Vettelt193,
Your point about the cost is the best point in this discussion. I was concentrating only on what you are getting when buying a new Z06 (and C6) but what you are paying for and not getting is even more important. It is nice to know that more than “sour grapes” motivates the opinions of some people on this forum besides me.


Frank (bluecoupe)

 

[Gorgon]

Even if the Z06 comes in at $70k (which I highly doubt) it will still cost $15k less than a Viper. I'm not sure that at that gap that many people would jump to the Viper if they could afford a Z06.

 

[Vettelt193]

Even if the Z06 comes in at $70k (which I highly doubt) it will still cost $15k less than a Viper. I'm not sure that at that gap that many people would jump to the Viper if they could afford a Z06.

Sticker price is 85k on a new viper, but they can be had any day for 78k... I have seen them as low as 72k, but on average, a good deal is 75k.

When the new Z comes out, it will take a couple years to get any discounts at all, so I am talking real world pricing... what people actually pay for the car, not sticker price.

 

[Vettelt193]

Hib,



My point is if sales are poor and the product does not meet the needs of the buyer it will no longer make sense to produce it. If these photos of the Z06 are correct then the Z06 has lost some of its uniqueness compared to the "regular" C6 coupe and to my eyes it will be just a hopped up Corvette coupe.

yep

JimmyB,

In many ways, even though I have doubts, I hope I am wrong about the sales and they turn out to be great. I want to see the Corvette continue to evolve. I just don't think funny membrane electric door handles and big plastic front plate mounts are a refinement.

the level of complexity of the C5 is too much (IMO). the C6 takes it to the next level, and I think this will lead to reduced used prices (say 10-20 years) because of electrical/computer problems. There is something to be said about simple cars these days

Vettelt193,
Your point about the cost is the best point in this discussion. I was concentrating only on what you are getting when buying a new Z06 (and C6) but what you are paying for and not getting is even more important. It is nice to know that more than “sour grapes” motivates the opinions of some people on this forum besides me.


Frank (bluecoupe)

The C6 is another let down for me... The Z06, another chance at redemption, looks like a let-down too.

I wish GM had some guts like they used to. Chevy started the corvette to compete against euro sports cars... and they gave it a euro look. That idea really didn't work (as reflected by sales). It wasn't until they made Corvettes unique that they really took off, and as they came into their own they got even more unique. People keep trying to tell me that aerodynamics are forcing cars to look alike, but I think that is BS. The Mazda RX-8 looks like no other car on the road... the 350Z is unique... I think trying to make the Corvette into a euro car again will pick up some of those sales, but will kill off some of the old corvette fans.... and I think long-term it will hurt more than help.

I think my next purchase will be a chrome bumpered 'vette so I can ride in style

 

[bluecoupe]

...the level of complexity of the C5 is too much (IMO). the C6 takes it to the next level, and I think this will lead to reduced used prices (say 10-20 years) because of electrical/computer problems. There is something to be said about simple cars these days...

The C6 is another let down for me...

I stopped by my local dealer today. There was beautiful new C6 Z51 coupe parked near the service dept. The owner picked it up out of state and put 300 miles on it and says the differential seals are leaking. (But the cool Star Trek door locks worked great.)

I guess they didn't fix ALL the C5 complaints. Maybe that one could have used another year of development and testing.

GM's latest "mark of excellence" seems to be an oil stain.

Deja vu all over again. Yikes :eyerole