81 project

[damoroso]

Okay, been busy, thought some of you might be interested. First off, I have a bone stock 81, with now about 70K on it. But as we all know, the cars weren't exactly over powered. There are certainly several ways to increase the power of the existing engines, but I've always wanted a big block vette and love the 80-82 body style so I thought I'd build a big block for my car.

The engine is a 402 punched .030 making it about a 409. Its running 10:1 comp with a strong cam that pulls from 1800-6500. I degreed it 6 degrees so it should pull a bit sooner. I also had larger valves put in the heads and had the ports cleaned up a bit so it'll breathe better. I'll be using the 81 E4ME because I like Qjets and like Sensei think they're just miss-understood critters. I contacted Cliff Ruggles and he made me a customized rebuild kit for it and showed me what to use in his book to make this carb work with the BB. I'll also be running a serpentine set up, fit from a small block adapted to the BB. I'll run an aluminum radiator with dual electric fans to keep it cool.

Well, a big block and a TH350 don't go so well together so I needed a transmission for it. There are certainly several ways to go, but for all things considered, I choose the 2004R route. I'll be keeping the rear end with the stock gears for awhile, and I like the gearing of the 2004R compared to say the 700. The car is to be built to be able to be a daily driver and to take on long trips, so the gearing is important and with the torque the engine should have, it still shouldn't have a problem leaving stop lights.

I've never built an automatic trans before so this was fun. I used parts and a book from CK Performance in New York. Chris has been very helpful and I've added things like billet parts, a coupe extra clutch discs, some servo and valve body work and a little machine work like adding holes for cooling and such. Chris built a custom torque converter for the car, it's a 10 inch and has a stall speed of 2800rpm, but according to Chris will have very street able manners. (A good thing cause I'm sure I could pop the rear end with this set up if I really wanted to!!)

So, the engine is built, the trans is built, and it's time to put them in the car. I didn't want to put a new engine and trans in at the same time as this is my firs trans and with the cam break in procedure, that's too much for my nerves!!! hnoes So, I thought I'd put the trans behind the stock 350 to check it out.

Anyone who says the 2004R is a bolt in isn't exactly telling the truth. Yep the trans bolts right up to the engine, and the speedo cable screws in, but...the trans mount is 7 inches farther back than the TH350. Not too big a deal, you can buy a cross member for about $200 from several places, or you can modify the one that’s in the car. That's what I'm doing this week. Also, the shift cable mounting bracket won't fit, it has to be modified. The cooling lines are close, but depending on your car, you might have some work to do. And the 200 is a heavy SOB! That and I'm definitely getting older!!

I should have the trans in and complete by the weekend, I'll post and let everyone know how it turns out. Then it's engine time....

Needless to say, I'll have a bunch of stock 81 parts I won't be needing, so if anyone is interested, let me know!!

 

[KANE]

Looking good!



When you are done... you'll have to post some video on VetteTube!

 

[tcxd40]

Very nice job on the '81.

Someday my '81 could look as nice as yours.

 

[damoroso]

81 project update

tcxd40, thanks for the complement!


As we all know, projects NEVER go as planned! This has been close so far, but, broke two exhaust studs (thankfully, the ones that hold the exhaust pipes on, not in the heads) one on each side. Had to take the right side manifold off to get that stud out, the drivers side came out on the car. When I pulled the manifold, I found that pesky little exhaust leak, it was two of the air tubes cracked at the manifold. Thought that was what I'd find, so I got those welded up, even though I won't be using them for long. (I'll see if someone wants a pair of stock "header type" exhaust manifolds for an 81 and see if I can recoup a few bucks). I modified the stock shifter plate so I could get to all 4 gear positions with the stock shifter.

When I got everything put back together, I went ahead and filled the trans with fluid (knowing that I'd have to add to it when I started the engine), figuring I'd get everything get done finished while waiting for the cross member. Everything looked good until I went out to the garage the next day and found a nice shiny pool of new red trans fluid under the car!!! It looked like the trans pan was leaking and I thought I might have forgotten to tighten it.....nope. The billet intermediate servo cover was leaking like it was raining!!! The billet servo has a thicker piston with double seals in it, and the cover (which is larger in diameter than the stock one to accommodate the piston) wouldn't hold the stock o-ring and fit in the case. The instructions were not all that clear; they used the stock servo exploded view, so I thought maybe that's why there are two seals on the piston, the cover won’t let the o-ring fit in the bore. Nope. After trying to get a stock o-ring on twice more and cutting them both, (and getting more and more frustrated, the trans shop I bought the stuff from is on vacation till the 4th!!!) I started looking for another o-ring that would fit better. Stretched one, even boiled it to see if it'd hold, it held on the stove….

Then, my welder buddy finally got time to do the welding on the cross member. It only took us a couple of hours, but finding that time can be a challenge sometimes! We made the modifications we wanted to the stock cross member, but haven’t powder coated it yet, figuring when I pull the engine we could make it pretty then. We bolted it up, found we need to make some minor modifications and I need to re-route one of the exhaust pipes, but we got everything bolted up, for now.

We got everything running, took the car around the neighborhood then back in the garage to top the fluid off and it was raining red under the car again!!! The o-ring that held on the stove obviously didn’t in the trans! Finally found an o-ring off an oil filter that uses an o-ring vs. the flat seal, and it works great! No more servo leaks! But what a PIA to change that when the trans is in the tunnel and everything is bolted up!

The thing shifts really well, but I need to do some adjustment, as it shifts from 2-3 a bit too soon if left to itself. Under WOT, it shifts from 3 to OD a bit too early for my taste as well, so I suspect the TV cable needs a bit of adjustment. I let the trans shop talk me into a 2800 stall converter, even though I knew better. I told them I wanted this very street-able, and they said “You won’t even know it’s in there unless you leave hard”. Wrong. It feels like the trans is slipping leaving a stop unless you leave more aggressively than normal, and I knew this would be the case. Also, lifting off the gas to slow down, doesn’t work so well with this torque converter either. With the rear end gears, the rpm are so low, the converter isn’t locked up and as a result, the car just coasts, the engine isn’t slowing you down at all. The shop did say if I wasn’t happy with the converter, they’d swap it, so, when I pull the engine, I’ll ask them to send something more like a 1900 stall.

As for the drivability, well, the speedometer calibration is AFU now, so I used the “stop watch” method to see where it was. With the cruise control set at 60, I was doing a mile in approx. 46 seconds. 3600 (seconds in an hour) divided by 46 equals 78.26mph. So it would seem the speedo is off by about 18mph. I’m sure I can fix that with the right speedo gear. Oh…and that was at about 1700-1800 rpm….right in the beginning of the big blocks power band….

Next steps, today or tomorrow, I'll take it to the local muffler guy, who does fantastic work for a fair price here, (I think John's shop is called Dollar Muffler) to get the pipe re-routed, and I'll take some more pics to post showing the trans installed. Then in the next week or so, it's pull the engine and get the BB in there. I'll be getting the serpentine stuff this week, not sure if I'll put that stuff on before or after dropping the engine in. I'll have some time to think about it though, lot's of cleaning up to do in the engine bay!

Had a guy with a GT500 blow by me day before yesterday (I didn't even try, I know better)...those days are coming to an end!!!!!!!!

 

[damoroso]

Okay, got most of the trans issues sorted out, the speedo is still off, but now it's showing 4mph faster than I'm going. Better, but not right yet. Still some work to do there, but at least I'm comfortable enough with the trans to start the engine work.

So, pulled the engine this weekend and now the fun really starts!! Put the car up and decided to pull the engine and trans as a unit. I did this because I still have to change the speedo gears in the trans and I’m having a hard time getting the pan to seal, so the pan has to come off anyway. I also want to change up the cross member just a bit, I want to drop the trans mount plate another inch. The trans was sitting just a bit nose down, and this will get it level.

I’ve sorted out what of the original parts from the car I need to keep and now I’ll be cleaning everything up, including the engine bay. I also have to figure out what in the engine bay needs to stay or go!! We did a “test fit” of the new engine (had a friend helping, and am I glad he did!!), and it’s tight, but I don’t have to do any fiberglass work on the a/c box and the valve covers clear the vacuum booster for the brakes. The headers are really tight, but they do fit. I bought Lakewood motor mounts from Summit, and they were really tight on the towers. We had to work on them a bit to get them to fit, we’ll do a final fit test tonight. I ordered the big block mounts, and maybe that’s the problem, maybe I should have ordered small block mounts instead. Regardless, these’ll fit when we’re done with them!!

Still have to get to the bone yard to find the serpentine stuff, clean it up and get it powder coated, but I should be able to start putting it back together in the next week or two. The goal is to have it done by Thanksgiving so I can drive it to Daytona for the Turkey Run!!

I’ll be posting the parts I don’t need anymore in the parts for sale section. I’ll have the exhaust manifolds, radiator, shroud, aux fan, air cleaner and associated duct work, and some other stuff for sale…..

 

[Evolution1980]

I may be mistaken, but I believe the serpentine system spins the water pump in reverse. If that's the case, you'll need to replace the water pump with a reverse-flow model.

 

[damoroso]

You're right, the serpentine system does spin the water pump in a reverse direction. I have a reverse rotation Flowcooler unit on the BB just waiting for the serpentine stuff!!

 

[Peer81]

Great work!
One thing I would take a second look at is the crossmember, not that this design is critical but with the two steel plates in the middle your lowering the strengh of the crossmember. It's better to continue steel from left to right because this is the steel that takes all the vertical weight. But for the rest a perfect project

Groeten Peter

 

[damoroso]

Peter,

I totally agree, it'd be better to have one piece left to right. I have to lower the mount about another inch so the trans sits leve in the car and we're looking at other ways to stregthen the cross member. There don't seem to be any great options since the mount has to be lower than the bottom of the oringinal bottom of the cross memeber. That's what made me cut it in the first place. Plus the exhaust has to pass under it, and there's only a few inches of ground clearance as it is....

But, like I said, we're looking at it and I'll post what we come up with!

 

[Peer81]

I thought the 200R4 was a direct replacement but it looks like your's has grown to 700r4 dimensions
Maybe a good idea to take a good look at a 82 crossmember. Also don't lower the transmission to much, the shaft between the transmission and the diff needs to be at an angle! Keep up the good work

Groeten Peter

 

[damoroso]

No, I think with all I've done to the 200, it's "bulked up" and thinks it's a 700 now!!! I looked at the 82 cross member, but as you know, that thing was only made for one year. The one I found was in Denver and the guy wanted $250, plus shipping!! For that, I'd just buy the Bowtie piece, and still might, we'll see. With the way the cross memeber is now, from the back of the pan the front of the pan is 1 inch lower. That's too much, it should sit just about level. Your absolutely correct about the drive shaft, but engine/trans is off set in the C3's by 1 inch to the passenger side, so that should make sure the drive shaft doesn't sit perfectly straight (which isn't a good thing!).

Got more stuff cleaned up today, I'll do the heavy cleaning of the engine bay this weekend and have that done (cleaned, painted, organized) next week. I've still got to work on that cross memeber, gather the serpentine stuff, make sure it works, gets cleaned and poweder coated, then should be able to start getting it back together. I still have to rebuild the carb and dizzy, got some small stuff like sending units and sparkplug wire looms to gather, but I should be able to drop the engine/trans

 

[Peer81]

I bought mine 82 crossmember from Ebay for 30 to 50 dollars I think. Well good luck and keep up posting the pictures

Btw, if you want to rebuild the carb yourself don't forget to buy Doug Roe's book and especially Cliff Ruggles's book. And with this engine I think it's even a better idea to contact Sensei

Groeten Peter

 

[damoroso]

Wow, really? Ebay? I'll start watching it daily!! That would certainly make things easier!

As for the carb, Cliff has been great help, he put together a customized rebuild kit based on the engine (especially the cam specs) and car particulars. Sensei is most certainly an advocate of this carb and for good reason. He's done a bunch of these things, and his car is certainly proof he know's what he's doing. He came buy one day and I'll tell you, his car sure sounds good! It would be interesting to get his opinion once I get ready for the carb work!

 

[Peer81]

Maybe I was just lucky, put a search in your favorit searches and maybe you'll find one or call the corvette salvageyards.

Groeten Peter

 

[Rebelrob]

Looks good so far. I like the new engine. I am planning swapping my old engine out this fall. I have a big block, but many have told me that my stock hood will not fit. Do you anticipate any hood clearence problems with your new big block? I have a 454, I know much depends on the intake, but I do not know if a SB is the same height as BB. Im guessing a BB sits a little higher.... not sure.
BTW, I installed a newer 700r4 back in mine and they had to install a new speedo gear since I change the rearend gears out.
Good luck and keep the updates and pics coming.
R

 

[damoroso]

Thanks for the compliment! Got some more work done on it. I pulled the seats and carpet out, put "Reflectix" in floor from the firewall back. I want to try and keep some of the heat from the headers out of the car, and others have said this stuff works pretty well. I put it over the existion insulation as that was in good shape. It was only $48 at Lowes and I had some left over. So if it works, not a bad deal at all!

I also got the carb work done last night. Used a kit and parts from Cliff Ruggles, he's been great to work with, spent time on the phone with him and traded some email messages. Basically opened up some passages according to his book, modified the air flaps a bit, and put his parts in it.

I have the serpentine belt parts I need now, and this weekend I'll be putting that stuff on the BB. I'll also paint the stuff in the engine compartment that needs painted and start putting the car back together this weekend or next week!!

I do anticipate clearence issues, if I remember correctly, the stock BBC sits only 2 inches higher than the SBC. That would be enough to create a problem, but then you add just about any intake and your up even more. I'll likely get the L88 hood from Ecklers for it if that turns out to be the case (if they have it at their shop in FL, I can pick it up and save the $200 shipping cost!!). I thought about doing the work to modify the existing hood, and might still do that, but I like the look of the L88 hood and think it works well with the lines on the car.

I've had to change speedo gears too, still not quite there, even using the formulas for determing what gears to use, I'm still about 4mph off...

 

[73shark]

Getting a ceramic coating on your headers will make a lot of difference in keeping the heat out of the psgr cpmt.

 

[damoroso]

Thanks for the info, I hope between that and the insullation I've put in it should be okay. I'm looking forward to having a later generation A/C compressor in the system as well, that's what came with the serpentine set up. Looks like all the hoses are a direct fit too. The suction and discharges are in the same place, thankfully.

 

[damoroso]

Still plug'n away.... Got the Reflectix in the car, the engine bay mostly cleaned up (still have some work to do on the AC air box and the Master Cylinder/brake booster, but it's mostly done and I got the serpentine set up mounted. Had to fabricate the mounting brackets, but it wasn't to bad at all. Thanks BBShark!! I had to cut off a bracket mount that the water pump had on it and open up the elongated holes on the brackets (one on each bracket) to get things to line up, but not bad at all. I used SS hardware to bolt it on and I'm really happy with the way it looks. The A/C compressor is a direct fit to the car's existing system, all I had to do was wire the connectors for the compressor and the alternator to the existing harness and they're good to go. I rebuilt the original power steering pump, the one that came with the serpentine brackets had fluid in it that looked like it'd been under water, so since I had to build it anyway, I decided to build the original one. Not bad at all and only about $12. Now that everything is mounted, all that's left is to align the pulleys and get the right size belt. It looks like the water pump pulley and crank pulley have to come out 1/2". I ordered an aluminum radiator and electric fans. I'm running two 11" fans in a shroud, they're supposed to put out 2800 CFM. Even if they're anywhere close, those with the radiator and flow-kooler high flow water pump should keep things cool, even here in sunny FL!

Once the serpentine belt is on, it's time to start putting the engine/trans back in the car. With any luck at all, I should be able to fire it next weekend, fingers crossed!!!

 

[navy2kcoupe]

Did you paint or powder coat the engine? Sure is a nice color!
Andy (savin' the wave for LT4man)