Important! Bowling Green Corvette Assembly Plant Workers Authorize a Strike

[unclevito]

Unfortunately, OSHA is about as useless as an organization can get, very reluctant to intervene in the workplace. Also, if you happen to be in a state with a recognized state government osha type agency, forget it. The threshold of conditions to effect an action from them is almost to the point that someone must die first. seriously......been there, done that.

I live in Calif and here, you get OSHA all over if you just stub your toe. Guess it is different for different states.

 

[unclevito]

I'll tell you a little story fellas.

I workd as a union electrician for 39 years. I attended apprenticeship school for 5 years before I was entitled to a journeyman card that qualified me to make $4.35 and hour then. Believe it or not that was good wages then.

I worked in the rain, snow, cold or I didn't get paid. Never any paid sick days but I made a decent wage and supported my family. With the decent wage I reinvested in our economy, paid my fair share in taxes and raised a family. We didn't have a lot of spare change when the bills were paid but we always put a little away for the future. I retired 12 years ago with a local pension and two international pensions. Our union provided an excellent healthcare plan with eye and dental also. Don't forget SS that they want to take away now. I am doing well because I was represented by a union that cared about my future.

You guys that knock unions I feel sorry for. You can't even find a 40 hour week job. No decent health care if any at all and no protection from employers that want to screw you to death. You are so lucky.

Get into a trade and join a union. I am living proof that it has benefits as opposed to working for non union employers. Unions are responsible for many, many benefits that non union people enjoy as a result of hard fought negotiations by unions. Paid vacations, 40 hour week....overtime over and above that, health care, safety regulations imposed on all jobs for your safety. You work under a contract signed by your employer so you don't get screwed and kicked out the door for a mis-understanding. You have rights.

Most of you won't agree with me because of all the negative anti-union sentiment now that has flooded the work place by multi billion dollar corporations that own DC. 50's, 60's, 70's and part of the 80's when unions had part of the work force were the best times ever for middle class workers. We made a decent wage and put it back into our economy to purchase America made goods.

For those who disagree with me don't be late for your part time low paying job now offered to most of you because your state representative, bought off by big corporations, and Washington gave your good paying union jobs to China. It will never be back. Are we better off....I think not.

What you say is true until the early 80s when mangement learned of new tools: Layoff, part time work, offshoring. Unions could do nothing about keeping wages high if that created products that cost more that the same thing made in Japan or China. Consumer Electronics is what we are talking about here. Middle class wages disappeared through no one's fault other than technology making the world 'smaller'. Your pumping of unions is not relevant in this century. For public employee unions is was just a vote machine for democratic politicians. Promise them the moon with pensions and in exchange get union money and votes. Too bad the pension money was not there. Too bad world wage competition does not support middle class union wages. Unions and folks like you can jump up and down and scream and it will not change that fact one bit. Only hope for middle class is to get educated and strive to be the upper class. Middle class today is the failed upper class.

 

[jhecox]

There ARE companies that take care of their employees, provide a good wage and benifits, and there are companies that don't. You don't need to pay part of your pay check to a union, if you are lucky enough to work for a decent company. But there are companies that require a union to get a fair shake. Not saying anything about GM BG or anyone else in particular. Just saying, if you work for a company that pays about the same wage, and provides the same benifits as a company next door. What do you need to pay union dues for?

 

[mjdart]

I echo many of DCSTEG's points.

I started in the UAW back in 1977 and the workplace was very dangerous, they continued to make strides forward each year. I know most C7 Corvette owners haven't or will never work in a factory or industrial workplace. It is not the glorified place with lazy workers that is constantly portrayed. I left in GM in 1986 and moved to Florida. Today I work for NextEra Energy (28 years) and its the corporation and board who are pushing the safety envelope to new heights. I recently watched the YouTube Video showing the new C7 being built and I looked video from a safety point of view and I see a pretty hazardous place. This gives testament to the American workers who are able to complete their tasks building the new Stingray without injury on a daily basis. Our corporate culture at NEE would never tolerate the work conditions at Bowling Green, so if these workers would like a few things addressed, I'm sure they are valid concerns.

Typically quality concerns are on the management side of the house, watch the C7 assembly YouTube video, robots and jigs are used for most assembly processes, humans don't misfit components using precise tooling. As far as orange peel paint, I doubt the C7s are hand sprayed.

http://www.vettetube.com/video/2014-chevrolet-corvette-production/

 

[dcsteg]

What you say is true until the early 80s when mangement learned of new tools: Layoff, part time work, offshoring. Unions could do nothing about keeping wages high if that created products that cost more that the same thing made in Japan or China. Consumer Electronics is what we are talking about here. Middle class wages disappeared through no one's fault other than technology making the world 'smaller'. Your pumping of unions is not relevant in this century. For public employee unions is was just a vote machine for democratic politicians. Promise them the moon with pensions and in exchange get union money and votes. Too bad the pension money was not there. Too bad world wage competition does not support middle class union wages. Unions and folks like you can jump up and down and scream and it will not change that fact one bit. Only hope for middle class is to get educated and strive to be the upper class. Middle class today is the failed upper class.

So you think this country willl survive eleminating the middle class? This country got great under the middle class. We paid most of the taxes and reinvested in the country. What do you have without them?

What's left? Millionairs that steal and cheat and spend your pensions to increase the bottom line. Mitt, aka the 47% man, was good at this buying up stressed companies for pennies on the dollar. Taking the heart out of the company for himself and laying off all the workers. At the other end of the pay scale McDonald's and Walmart and the rest of the low salary employees that pay little or no taxes and have nothing left out of their pay checks reinvest in the country.

Your living in a dream world my man and you are part of the thinking that has made this country what it is now. When you reach 50 in your upper class job be prepaired to have your behind kicked out the front door. Your hot shot company has decided your to old and they will bring in a new college grad to replace your over the hill body. I am sure Walmart has a place for you beause they figure you do anything for a job. Don't ask for better medical insurance or a raise because it will be another kick out the front door. Damn those unions. Where were they when I needed them?

I wish you well. Save now your going to need it down the road of life.

 

[motorman]

I echo many of DCSTEG's points.

I started in the UAW back in 1977 and the workplace was very dangerous, they continued to make strides forward each year. I know most C7 Corvette owners haven't or will never work in a factory or industrial workplace. It is not the glorified place with lazy workers that is constantly portrayed. I left in GM in 1986 and moved to Florida. Today I work for NextEra Energy (28 years) and its the corporation and board who are pushing the safety envelope to new heights. I recently watched the YouTube Video showing the new C7 being built and I looked video from a safety point of view and I see a pretty hazardous place. This gives testament to the American workers who are able to complete their tasks building the new Stingray without injury on a daily basis. Our corporate culture at NEE would never tolerate the work conditions at Bowling Green, so if these workers would like a few things addressed, I'm sure they are valid concerns.

Typically quality concerns are on the management side of the house, watch the C7 assembly YouTube video, robots and jigs are used for most assembly processes, humans don't misfit components using precise tooling. As far as orange peel paint, I doubt the C7s are hand sprayed.

http://www.vettetube.com/video/2014-chevrolet-corvette-production/

correct the panels are painted by robots and the paint is like it is because of the federal air regulations about what these factories are allowed to put into the air

 

[User261483]

Drivng Corvettes for 35 years.

I have to put in my two cents worth (and that's more than it's worth), but I've driven Corvettes for 35 years and quality is not a problem now,
compared to years ago. No Corvette, C1, C2, C3, C4, C6 has ever left me stranded by the road. Hell, I drove a 1991 for 21 years only replacing
tires, batteries, and one alternator. That's really says something about quality. I think that if someone at the Corvette plant thinks there is
a safety issue. There must be a safety issue. I've toured the plant many times and all those men and women like their jobs and love the Corvette.
It's a dream job for any Corvette fan, so when they say that there is a problem, I believe them. Let's hope they work out the problems with
management and get back to building the best car in the world.
Thanks for listening...

 

[Mez]

Everyone should stop the "Government Motors" comments as that never was the situation.

First, I am not in favor of the Government getting involved in private business, but in this case, it was necessary...for a short time. And they held only around 26% of the shares if I recall correctly.

For those of your out there still under the assumption that the Federal Government holds shares of GM stock, that is incorrect. See the article below:

December 9, 2013, 2:32 p.m.

WASHINGTON -- The federal government on Monday sold its remaining shares of General Motors Co. stock, ending the controversial $49.5-billion bailout of the automaker with an approximately $10.5-billion loss for taxpayers. "This marks one of the final chapters in the administration's efforts to protect the broader economy by providing support to the automobile industry," Treasury Secretary Jacob J. Lew said.

Treasury sells rest of GM stock, ends bailout with $10.5-billion loss - latimes.com


The reason that the Government stepped in was to keep GM and suppliers afloat .... and people working. The economic impact would have been devastating. Nobody else was stepping up to the financial plate to fund the new GM after the old GM filed Chapter 11. If the government had not stepped in, there was a high probability that GM assets would have been split up and sold to various domestic and off-shore buyers. And perhaps dropped the Corvette model along with others.

I checked the bios of the Board of Directors of new GM and saw only 1 of the 14 directors affiliated with the Government. All the other directors had a long auto industry history. With all the positive reviews of all the new 2014 models, does anyone really believe the Government hurt the company?

As was pointed out, this is not about pay, pensions, benefits or anything like that. Seems this can be settle quickly. Keep in mind, the plant is under pressure to make production goals to meet strong order demand....again, that's a good thing.

Here is part of the article published by Bloomberg in January 2013:

(Treasury)

Juechter recalled officials of the Treasury and Obama’s auto task force as curious about the Corvette redesign and having an “open mind” about going forward with it.
“We wouldn’t have been able to do it without” government approval, he said. “They saw the value the car brings to Chevrolet, to General Motors and, frankly, just a business proposition. They saw it as a good investment.”
GM's senior management ultimately made all product decisions, Harry Wilson, a former member of Obama's task force, said last week in an e-mail.
``While a number of us on the task force felt the Corvette was a compelling car, our support for it was driven by the quality, market appeal, brand value and product-level profitability of the car itself, not any personal sentiment,'' he said. ``It was (and is) a compelling product for General Motors.''

 

[blanchae]

Pro Union support here...

I was anti-union for years until I started working at a place with bad management. Strong unions are the result of bad management. If people are happy and compensated fairly by management, there is no reason for a union. Unfortunately, that is not the case. Management will try and take advantage of workers to get the most productivity out while paying the least amount of compensation. The union provides the voice and the unity to balance the table.

The media and corporations like to promote the union as a bad thing. GM is losing money because of the union contract and exorbitant wages and benefits that union members received. But you have to realize that management agreed to these terms. It's not like the union has complete say in the working conditions and contracts. These are negotiated and agreed upon by management. The union negotiator's job is to get the best deal for the workers, the management negotiator's job is to get the best deal for the company. They reach a mutual agreement that is in the best interest of both parties. So management: QUIT whining if you are bad at negotiations and complain about the terms you agreed to. You can't have it both ways.

I can't end my soapbox without posting a link to the youtube video called What have American unions ever done for us?

 

[HKvette]

I'll tell you a little story fellas.

I workd as a union electrician for 39 years. I attended apprenticeship school for 5 years before I was entitled to a journeyman card that qualified me to make $4.35 and hour then. Believe it or not that was good wages then.

I worked in the rain, snow, cold or I didn't get paid. Never any paid sick days but I made a decent wage and supported my family. With the decent wage I reinvested in our economy, paid my fair share in taxes and raised a family. We didn't have a lot of spare change when the bills were paid but we always put a little away for the future. I retired 12 years ago with a local pension and two international pensions. Our union provided an excellent healthcare plan with eye and dental also. Don't forget SS that they want to take away now. I am doing well because I was represented by a union that cared about my future.

You guys that knock unions I feel sorry for. You can't even find a 40 hour week job. No decent health care if any at all and no protection from employers that want to screw you to death. You are so lucky.

Get into a trade and join a union. I am living proof that it has benefits as opposed to working for non union employers. Unions are responsible for many, many benefits that non union people enjoy as a result of hard fought negotiations by unions. Paid vacations, 40 hour week....overtime over and above that, health care, safety regulations imposed on all jobs for your safety. You work under a contract signed by your employer so you don't get screwed and kicked out the door for a mis-understanding. You have rights.

Most of you won't agree with me because of all the negative anti-union sentiment now that has flooded the work place by multi billion dollar corporations that own DC. 50's, 60's, 70's and part of the 80's when unions had part of the work force were the best times ever for middle class workers. We made a decent wage and put it back into our economy to purchase America made goods.

For those who disagree with me don't be late for your part time low paying job now offered to most of you because your state representative, bought off by big corporations, and Washington gave your good paying union jobs to China. It will never be back. Are we better off....I think not.

Well put dcsteg! I've been a Union Bricklayer/Stonemason for 40 years and I wouldnt have what I have today if it weren't for my Union training and apprenticeship and the Union representing me by negotiating a fair wage and good health and retirement benefits and a safe workplace. Like dcsteg said, we never received anything for not working. Rain, snow or too cold to work=no pay. Work a half hour and it starts to rain and you earn a half hour's worth of pay for that day. I can remember being as sick as a dog but I had to drag my rear end to work because I had a mortgage payment and kids at home to feed. No work-no pay. I also remember my back being so sore that my wife would have to tie my shoes in the morning because I couldnt bend down for the pain but I needed to get to work. So for those that think that Union workers are lazy I'm here to tell you that's a bunch of BullCrap!ad I was always happy to pay my dues because it got me proper representation on the jobsite. That's all those auto workers want. Every worker deserves representation. I'm a third generation Bricklayer/Stonemason and my father has been deceased for 20 years. My mother has been receiving his pension every month without fail for those 20 years. What in the world could be wrong with that? Please tell me when the attitude of people changed from: That worker is in the Union and he receives good pay and benefits.....How do I join to receive those same conditions at my workplace? to: That worker receives good pay and benefits, I dont have that so he shouldnt either? And, before anyone mentions the Unions getting too involved in politics like is said often; it's unfortunate but Unions absolutely must stay involved in politics with so many like Grover Norquist, ALEC and the Koch brothers spending $millions upon $millions trying to put Unions out of business. If those UAW workers have an issue at Bowling Green that they can't get worked out they have every right to strike. All they are doing is withdrawing their services. That is nothing different from a businessman withdrawing his services when he is unhappy with a business arrangement.

 

[5thgeneration]

Its easy to be a blow hard and put down the workers just because they are in a union ? Give me a break you don't know the circumstances and you don't work there so put a sock in it. The minute someone mentions union the bashing starts, how about finding out what is going on before you open your mouth and insert foot ! :eyerole And yet you will be the first ones to tell them what a good job they are doing as you tour the plant ! :L

 

[catbert]

I see that a number of comments on this thread are from newcomers, or, at least, new posters!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Welcome to our forum, glad you posted, and let your opinions be heard. Don't be strangers.

 

[LLC5]

Its easy to be a blow hard and put down the workers just because they are in a union ? Give me a break you don't know the circumstances and you don't work there so put a sock in it. The minute someone mentions union the bashing starts, how about finding out what is going on before you open your mouth and insert foot ! :eyerole And yet you will be the first ones to tell them what a good job they are doing as you tour the plant ! :L

Exactly.....

 

[jjmenei]

Pending Strike, my opinion

Having worked in Manufacturing my entire career, both in Automotive & Aerospace as a Manufacturing Engineer, I have to side with the Union Members. They are not asking for more $'s just safer working conditions. There have been two previous plant managers without any strike due to safety issues. The new Plant Manager should listen to the workforce, correct the safety concerns, and move forward to avert this strike. In house manufacturing of the frame assembly looks very complicated & special safety considerations should be in place to protect the work force. Just my two cents.</SPAN></SPAN>

 

[unclevito]

So you think this country willl survive eleminating the middle class? This country got great under the middle class. We paid most of the taxes and reinvested in the country. What do you have without them?

What's left? Millionairs that steal and cheat and spend your pensions to increase the bottom line. Mitt, aka the 47% man, was good at this buying up stressed companies for pennies on the dollar. Taking the heart out of the company for himself and laying off all the workers. At the other end of the pay scale McDonald's and Walmart and the rest of the low salary employees that pay little or no taxes and have nothing left out of their pay checks reinvest in the country.

Your living in a dream world my man and you are part of the thinking that has made this country what it is now. When you reach 50 in your upper class job be prepaired to have your behind kicked out the front door. Your hot shot company has decided your to old and they will bring in a new college grad to replace your over the hill body. I am sure Walmart has a place for you beause they figure you do anything for a job. Don't ask for better medical insurance or a raise because it will be another kick out the front door. Damn those unions. Where were they when I needed them?

I wish you well. Save now your going to need it down the road of life.

I was kicked out the door at age 59, but thanks to the stock market have a 7 figure nest egg and a paid for house in so Calif. BTW, I have folks beating down my door wanting to buy my house. Things have just changed. Rather than pensions, you have a stock portfolio. Big deal. Yes, like you said: Learn to save. Not that hard. Can't buy as many Corvettes, however.

I love my retirement. I am on my own dime until I am 65 and can hit up Medicare. Then hopefully I can take max SS at 70. I got this way by living BELOW my means my entire life. Notice my Vette is a 64. Never lost value with that car. Will never find me with a 2014. Just depreciates and destroys your wealth. Besides, GM just screws over its customers by coming out with a better car the next year. Do not get caught up with that 'gotta have it" BS. Luckly millenials are not into cars. My kids couldn't care less about my mid year. They will inherit it someday but they do not want it! They do not want the $1M house on the beach.

 

[Bob Chadwick]

I live in Calif and here, you get OSHA all over if you just stub your toe. Guess it is different for different states.

I think you get CalOSHA, not necessarily OSHA.

 

[Bobplane777]

My Dad worked on railroad for 43 years before retiring 1990. He thought Unions started out with right motives but like every organization when given enough power, money and control they become just as useless as the persona they paint on management. Dad believed in the old days that Unions did some good (his father worked in Coal mines!). But he believes they changed much during the 70-80's. I'm close to 60 and am proud to have been part of a company that started with 9 employees and now employ 450 (healthcare company). We will never have a union - if we had, we would probably have been out of business years ago... of course with Obamacare that may happen anyway.

Companies today that are run by "bad management" are usually fleshed out if they don't go bankrupt or to prison first - I'm not doubting bad management exists - but most do care about having the best employees because they want to be profitable... that is why they are in business. Unions can and do suffer from the same greediness and "bad management" because people are people. And they often take a "blind eye" about the economy or national and international trends... it is naïve today to think they are all about "the workers" and protecting them from "the Man".

The reality is that companies, and the way they have to do business, change because economies and governments change. Employees are beginning to realize that government and Union involvement in the free market is reaping more havoc than anything internal worker/management conflict could come up with. Union shops are one more thing company leaders have to compete with due to more monetary demands in addition to government bureaucracies, new taxes, changing products, unexpected national downturns and international markets. Small to Medium size business can hardly stay afloat. If they do make it the Unions take notice and come in to take their share of the pie, (hello Walmart, your employees are mistreated). Billions are spent on Union dues... who gets that money and is the ROI equally distributed to "all" those who contribute? Don't let someone else do your bidding... if you don't like the company apply somewhere else...

* Not to be anecdotal (but others have offered such so let me indulge) ... go to Pittsburgh and ask the Steel Mill workers how good their Unions served them. I had a Airline Captain that use to work out of Pittsburgh for USAir - that hub long gone. He told me he has talked to a lot of Union workers there that are "still out of work" but they firmly believe "their Union won!" even after the plants closed. Naturally management gets blamed (of course they are out of work too!)... the biggest enemies in our corporations is not management but greed. Solve that problem and the economy will grow. The Pie only has so many pieces.... p.s. the airline captain went to another airline after USAIR (another huge Union shop) went bankrupt for the second time and later forced to merge into another airline in order to survive (do you think the Union saved their pensions and seniority despite the thousands spent in Unions dues ?). Think again.

 

[HKvette]

The Pie only has so many pieces.... p.s. the airline captain went to another airline after USAIR (another huge Union shop) went bankrupt for the second time and later forced to merge into another airline in order to survive (do you think the Union saved their pensions and seniority despite the thousands spent in Unions dues ?). Think again.

Bobplane, it appears that your Union experience all comes from second hand exposure as to what you saw or heard. You get out of any organization what you put into it. In the Building Trades Unions the pensions are jointly trusted "multi-employer" trust funds because of the nature of the industry. If a contractor goes broke there are many other participating employers and the pension fund and the contributions paid in on the workers behalf still exist and will be there for the worker for his retirement. Your dad was right, something did change in the 80's with Unions, it was Ronald Reagan and the firing of the PATCO members. It emboldened companies to fire and permanently replace striking workers, something that was taboo prior to that and that is not allowed in most other industrialized nations. Unions had to become much more involved in politics than they were previously and more than they preferred. Representation for workers comes in many forms. In the case of US labor law the pen can be mightier than the sword. I agree with you about the greed factor with corporations. It is very common for corps to take that greed factor out on the workers of course. In 1982, a year after Reagan fired the flight controllers the ratio of CEO pay to the workers of the corporation was 42-1. 10 years later the ratio was 201-1 and in another 10 years in 2002 the ratio was 281-1. In 2012 the ratio of CEO pay to the workers was 354-1. Yes, corporate greed is a reality.

 

[Bobplane777]

Bobplane, it appears that your Union experience all comes from second hand exposure as to what you saw or heard. You get out of any organization what you put into it. ... Unions had to become much more involved in politics than they were previously and more than they preferred. Representation for workers comes in many forms. In the case of US labor law the pen can be mightier than the sword. I agree with you about the greed factor with corporations. It is very common for corps to take that greed factor out on the workers of course. In 1982, a year after Reagan fired the flight controllers the ratio of CEO pay to the workers of the corporation was 42-1. 10 years later the ratio was 201-1 and in another 10 years in 2002 the ratio was 281-1. In 2012 the ratio of CEO pay to the workers was 354-1. Yes, corporate greed is a reality.

One last response to your comments (and this is all in good spirit!)

(1) My Dad voted for Carter and then for Reagan, and at 83 wishes he could vote for Reagan again.

(2) My greed comments were directed at "both" sides not just corporations that you talk about. Do you know what Union Leaders average salaries are??? $300K, $400K -- keep going!! Top 1% of earners .... bit of hypocrisy compared to average worker... check this link

Union Leaders Decrying CEO Pay Also in Top 1%: BGOV Barometer - Bloomberg

(3) I am a CFII, MEI and former Corporate pilot for our company - firing the flight Controllers was an excellent idea - their strike put thousands of lives in jeopardy - they knew what they were hiring up for when they signed their contracts.

(4) Workers in America make better wages and work in the better conditions than anywhere else in the world despite imperfections. And if you think you should make the same as a CEO then go become one yourself, or start your own company with your own money and stop complaining about how much someone else signed up to make. No one talks about the many business owners who lost it all trying to start a company that "employs" people who need jobs... they take the risks ! But that's part of American freedom and why so many people want to live here.

(5) If unions think they need to get more political to solve their problems then they are worse off then I ever imagined.... we all are aware how much liberal politics play into Unions ... all while the head of the IRS is likely to be indicted on criminal charges for biases against conservative groups... we cannot make companies into the "nanny" states the federal gov't is becoming and expect companies to compete or survive.

(5) One last anecdotal story and I'm done: My son-in-law served 2 tours in Iraq. On return to a nuclear plant job as a Security officer he was invited to set in on a Nuclear Engineer course during the last 3 weeks of a 6 month training class. He made the 2nd highest score in the class despite absent from most of the class (he is a smart kid). But he was told he could not expect to get a Job at that plant doing that work because it was a "Union job" !!! Security was not part of the Union. The only hope extended was that no one in the Union would apply or he took a Union janitor job. Back to carrying an M-4 around for 2 years and 3 round of classes until he was he able to grab a spot because there was not enough Union members able to qualify or applied. Interestingly, Union workers never have to take the final Nuclear Engineer licensing test due to their Union contract (most don't because if they failed they could loose their job or loose the increase in salary - but the plant needs licensed engineers!!).

So what is the Union protecting here? Is this about workers rights ? ... Unions are only interested in the rights of "those workers" who PAY them money. Check again the salaries of Union Leaders !

But hey, I still own a VETTE made by GM - a bailed out company - but that's part of my freedom for living in America - with all the heat over ignitions right now I wonder if this Strike in the best interest of our beloved Vette factory.

 

[Tractorman_3]

GM can't 'dump' the UAW......................they are the UAW. It (GM) was gift from our esteemed leader to the union!ad