C-5 wont start, no power to anything

[Pags]

So the pcm that the shop had turned out to be bad. So I don't have too much faith in spending more money on another problematic pcm. I don't think the pcm is my issue though, I still think it's a voltage issue somewhere.

98 C5; 701rwhp, America! F**k Yea

 

[Pags]

I just thought of this, probably not it but would be awesome if it was. What if the damn pcm was just loosely connected at the pinouts that go to the injector wires? Does anyone have a wiring diagram that shows what wire is what? Thinking if they are all in line with one another and the connection wasn't seated all the way it could be possible.

98 C5; 701rwhp, America! F**k Yea

 

[tango97]

After 6 pages of this thread.....Nothing!

A little closure to this problem would be nice. :L

 

[Pags]

Your preaching to the choir my man. I'm still working it, still won't crank, or run. Looking at possible wires from the star connector being grounded somewhere that shouldn't be. Ignition relay is still buzzing like crazy when the key is in the "on" position. Can't figure out why.

 

[Antz81]

Your preaching to the choir my man. I'm still working it, still won't crank, or run. Looking at possible wires from the star connector being grounded somewhere that shouldn't be. Ignition relay is still buzzing like crazy when the key is in the "on" position. Can't figure out why.

Never heard of a relay buzzing before. (Contactors yes, relays no) have you tested the supply to this relay? Just wondering if the buzzing you are hearing is the relay switching on and off very quickly.

 

[Pags]

That's probably what it is, and I dont think I've tested the supply. Would I do that at the switch itself? Or check voltage at all the ignition fuses?

 

[Pags]

I have no clue about electricity, or how it works. Slowly learning though

 

[Antz81]

That's probably what it is, and I dont think I've tested the supply. Would I do that at the switch itself? Or check voltage at all the ignition fuses?

I would test voltage across the relay coil, and to a good ground. Not sure how easy it is to get to the relay though. And maybe frequency as well just to be sure.

 

[Pags]

Ok now how do I do that? The relay itself is easy to get to, but there's no place to test on it.

 

[Pags]

Unless I pull the fuse box up and probe the wires going up to the relay

 

[Antz81]

Unless I pull the fuse box up and probe the wires going up to the relay

Remove the relay. I imagine it just plugs in. Then test at thr teminals for t he relay.
If you're not sure which ones are for the coil then test on thr relay for the two terminals that have resistance between them (bbut not a short, would expect it to be a few hundred ohms)

 

[Pags]

Makes sense! I'll give it a shot as soon as I can and report back

 

[dadaroo]

OP, if you need help with testing I can help if you PM me with your phone number.

With regard to buzzing relays, they do this when there is low voltage. You can just pull the relay until we get it to crank. While it is pulled you can measure the voltage across the pins for the coil. Low voltage could be due to a bad ignition electrical switch.

For the No Crank issue, these are my top picks:

Since you replaced the TDR I will assume it is not the issue.

It may not crank if your key is not being read. Does your Security Light go off indicating the key resistance has been read?

Could be a bad ignition electrical switch, could explain the ignition relay issue also.

Could be a bad clutch safety switch (manual) or Park/Neutral switch (auto)

Could be a bad starter solenoid or connection.

Could be a bad BCM

Connection or wiring issue.


Here is a way to jumper the TDR to see if you can get the car to crank. NOTE THE SAFETY PRECAUTION!

The crank circuitconsists of two circuits centered around the THEFT DETERRENT RELAY (TDR).

The low current 12 VDC CONTROL side turns/powers the TDR coil on. The 12 VDC high currentside supplies the starter with 12 VDC, 60 AMPs once the TDR is energized.

The control side consists of the neutral safety switch or the clutch safetyswitch, Ignition switch, and the BCM security circuit, When the BCM gets all thesecurity it needs, it supplies ground to the safety circuit and allows therelay to close.

When the relay closes, it connects the solenoid to the 60 amp circuit thatallows the solenoid to operate, The solenoid throws the starter Bendix drivegear into the flywheel and also connects the VERY HIGH CURRENT switch insidethe solenoid to power the starter.



Either one of these should activate the starter:

Safety Precaution: Make sure Manuals are in Neural and Autos in Park.

You can GROUND the YELLOW /BLACK wire on the TDR and eliminate the BCM SecurityCircuit from the problem.

Jumper the red andpurple wire on the TDR.

Either SHOULD cause the starter solenoid to run thestarter/crank the engine.


Here is the schematic:




Once we get it to crank we can solve that part of the puzzle.

If you get it to crank, you can do it again but this time with the ignition key ON. That should make it crank and RUN. If you do this, only jumper it enough to get the Car to RUN otherwise it will keep cranking.

Remember the safety precaution.


Let me know if you have any questions.



<o> </o>

 

[Pags]

I pm'd you

 

[Pags]

Well thanks to a HUGE help from dadaroo, the no crank issue is solved. It was the neutral safety switch. I didn't try to start it yet, but she cranks! Don't know if that shorting out and killing the tdr caused it to die while driving or not, and caused the no comm issue. But at least I'm one step closer to driving again!

 

[Antz81]

Neutral start switch will only cause your cranking issue. But you are one step closer.
I assume that stopped your relay buzzing?

 

[Pags]

I don't know about the ignition relay buzzing, I had it out when we jumpered the tdr relay. I just spent the last few hours taking the old neutral switch out, and putting the new one in. Can't get the old connectors to go in to the new switch, real pita. So I quit for the night

 

[nascar03]

I just read 7 pages and 4 months of discussion about PAGS C5 not starting.
Some very interesting reading.. dadaroo.. your info was most detailed and helpful.
But I sure was expecting some sort of update or conclusion to this story.

Does anyone know if this fellow got his car started.?
I thought it would solve all his problems if the car did get written-off, buy the parts back and start with a car that works.

I checked PAGS's profile and this is the only time he came on the forum so I guess we will never know.

I do not have this issue but I know it is common so I was hoping for a better ending of any sort!
thanx to all that helped.

graham

 

[Otter]

Some very interesting reading.. dadaroo.. your info was most detailed and helpful.

FYI, dadaroo passed away back in May 2016. A very helpful guy that didn't mind sharing his knowledge.

 

[nascar03]

Oh my!
that is so sad.
i just checked out more of his writings on this forum.
he will be missed.

thanx for the response.
graham