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Clay bar left scratches in my paint!!!!

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jedi

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A month or so ago I striped the wax off my car using dove dishwashing det. and did the whole cleaning process with Mothers claybar and Meguiar's chemicals 1, 2, 3 (crystal wash, paint cleaner, polish, and canabara wax times 2). Last night I went out to the car and caught the light just right and saw very fine scratches all over the car, swirl marks, and straight lines in places where I remember using the claybar. I am ****ed! I followed the directions perfectly! Can this be repaired? What could I have done wrong?
Jedi
 
Did you a lubricant with it or did you use it dry? It must be used with some kind of lubricant. Meguiars includes their quick detailing spray with their clay bar as a lubricant. See "How to use a clay bar" in this forum by DetailingDude.



:v
 
Yeah, I used the mothers claybar and thier quick detailer lub that came with the bar. I used alot so I feel confident that I had enough lubricant on the cars paint. I did follow both the directions on the box and the stuff I found here on CAC. The question is who to fix it from here? I don't feel comfortable with using a claybar again with out someone who has done it successfully before watching over my shoulder.
Jedi
 
First off don't panic!!

Tell me what you are seeing and tell me a bit about the process you used.

What color is your car?
What car care products have you been using?
How often was your car waxed?
 
detail dude

is it possible that the car had been subject to one of those scratch hiding waxes and now that it has been stripped of these are showing up ? I use the meguires scratch and swirl mark removers and have had great success. just a thought anyway. I am sure you can help him better than me.... :beer
 
DetailingDude said:
What color is your car?
What car care products have you been using?
How often was your car waxed? [/B]

1995 Corvette Torch Red color. I bought it used back in November. I washed the car using Dove, which I was told would remove the wax without hurting the paint then Meguiar's Crystal wash. Then I used a mothers claybar with their liquid detailer as a lub, which is what the directions recommended, then Meguiar's chemicals 1, 2, 3 (paint cleaner, polish, and canabara wax times 2) all following the directions on the bottles. I used terrycloth cotton towels I bought from Autozone.

So the process was wash the car to remove the wax, I did this twice, then put the car in the garage, spent a few hours using the claybar, which I would first spray the lub on the car in an area the size of 2 feet by 2 feet. I then rubbed the bar back and forth listening for noises of stuff being picked up by the claybar. When I could feel no more pulling and no more noise I moved on to another area. The cars paint had sort of a flat look at this point. Not much gloss. Then I put the Meguiar's paint cleaner on it, and rubbed it in in circles, let it dry for a few minutes and then wiped with a terrycloth. Then did the same with the polish, and then the canabara wax twice. The car looked a little bit duller then when I first bought it but I figured I could fix that when it got warmer during the spring and could spend more time on the paint. Now I see swirl marks, and these straight lines when the light hits it just right. Anu suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Jedi
 
Re: detail dude

dmrodco said:
is it possible that the car had been subject to one of those scratch hiding waxes and now that it has been stripped of these are showing up ? I use the meguires scratch and swirl mark removers and have had great success.

That is possible, and would explain why the paint looked so good for a 1995. Even Rob (our CAC host) mentioned that when he saw the car. I was thinking of using the meguires scratch and swirl mark removers and was going to ask for opinons in another post.
Jedi
 
I have looked over your description and I very sincerely appreciate your honesty. Please don't feel like what I am telling you is destructive criticsm but rather constructive criticism. I know it can be very frustrating to have put all that hard work into your baby and have her sneer back at you that way. I do not feel that it is a serious problem. So don't panic!

In between the comments I make if you could make your own notes in your reply to me on the particular points so we can gradually narrow down the source of your scratches.


I washed the car using Dove, which I was told would remove the wax without hurting the paint then Meguiar's Crystal wash.
Note to self: Don't get side tracked here! Although it is so difficult to keep from going on a rant right about now. Grrr! I have some other posts on here regarding surface prep under "My Car Care Philosophy" that I think should be read right about now.

Then I used a mothers claybar with their liquid detailer as a lub, which is what the directions recommended
Excellent clay bar. However, was the car 100% dry when you clayed it? I know some people like the car to be wet when they clay, and perhaps I am way too anal but what I have found after claying probably 1,000 cars myself is two things:

Sometimes I miss a spot when I am washing and when I go to dry the car I notice the area and I need to wash that area again. So I am saying that you may have missed a tiny area on your car and some of the dirt got trapped in your clay bar and you rubbed it into your paint.

Another thing is that water is attraced to other water. Ever notice 2 beads of water close together and they seem magnatized and the two join to form a bigger one? Well, the same thing can happen when you are claying but in a slightly different way. When you spray on the surface lubrication near a badge, piece of body molding or piece of trim the piece of dirt that is hiding in the water under the badge can get drawn out and trapped in your clay and ground into the paint.

Some people have good results with their method but they fail to realize that there are people out there who have not clayed before and pass on their short cut and that is where problems can occur.


Meguiar's chemicals 1, 2, 3 (paint cleaner, polish, and canabara wax times 2) all following the directions on the bottles.
I tell people all the time not to polish unless they absolutly need to and this is why. What sort of applicator did you apply the poish with?

I used terrycloth cotton towels I bought from Autozone.
I think this could be where part of your problem comes from as well. Those towels probably aren't 100% cotton. 100% of the cotton they used was 100% cotton but they probably used some sort of cotton/poly blend. That said, did you wash and dry them before you used them? If not they are often brittle and can scratch paint.

So the process was wash the car to remove the wax, I did this twice, then put the car in the garage
I am sure you removed all the dirt so that is not a concern now. However did you leave your vette wet as you clayed?

spent a few hours using the claybar, which I would first spray the lub on the car in an area the size of 2 feet by 2 feet. I then rubbed the bar back and forth listening for noises of stuff being picked up by the claybar. When I could feel no more pulling and no more noise I moved on to another area.
I actually find claying to be theraputic. I was nervous the first time too. Were you wiping it dry when you finished the section?

The cars paint had sort of a flat look at this point. Not much gloss.
Hmmmm, clay should not dull it. Perhaps the Dove washing had some sort of adverse reaction to the paint and it was revealed afterward. Torch red is clear coated for that year, correct?

Then I put the Meguiar's paint cleaner on it, and rubbed it in in circles, let it dry for a few minutes and then wiped with a terrycloth.
Ohhhh nooooo! Not circles. I blew out my shoulder (2 times total now) several years ago and had to switch from circular motions to side-to-side and up-and-down motions. I found that it made a huge difference in the amount of surface scratching. A lot of companies now suggest this too because of the way the sunlight gets refracted to the side and not in various directions (aka the swirls you are referring to). Plus you removed a dry product with a brittle towel. I know your name is Jedi, but I hope you didn't apply too much force when rubbing the product off!

Then did the same with the polish
Same answer as above. Plus the addition of the abrasives in the polish added to the eventual result.

and then the canabara wax twice.
I don't think you can get depth with that series. My suggestion is switching over to Meguiar's #26.

The car looked a little bit duller then when I first bought it but I figured I could fix that when it got warmer during the spring and could spend more time on the paint. Now I see swirl marks, and these straight lines when the light hits it just right. Anu suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
I'll make a few suggestions once you have replied to the questions and suppositions I made.
 
Originally posted by DetailingDude
I have looked over your description and I very sincerely appreciate your honesty. Please don't feel like what I am telling you is destructive criticsm but rather constructive criticism. I know it can be very frustrating to have put all that hard work into your baby and have her sneer back at you that way. I do not feel that it is a serious problem. So don't panic!

In between the comments I make if you could make your own notes in your reply to me on the particular points so we can gradually narrow down the source of your scratches.


I washed the car using Dove, which I was told would remove the wax without hurting the paint then Meguiar's Crystal wash.
Note to self: Don't get side tracked here! Although it is so difficult to keep from going on a rant right about now. Grrr! I have some other posts on here regarding surface prep under "My Car Care Philosophy" that I think should be read right about now.

Can you point me to where I can find these posts on Surface prep?


Then I used a mothers claybar with their liquid detailer as a lub, which is what the directions recommended
Excellent clay bar. However, was the car 100% dry when you clayed it? I know some people like the car to be wet when they clay, and perhaps I am way too anal but what I have found after claying probably 1,000 cars myself is two things:

Sometimes I miss a spot when I am washing and when I go to dry the car I notice the area and I need to wash that area again. So I am saying that you may have missed a tiny area on your car and some of the dirt got trapped in your clay bar and you rubbed it into your paint.

Another thing is that water is attraced to other water. Ever notice 2 beads of water close together and they seem magnatized and the two join to form a bigger one? Well, the same thing can happen when you are claying but in a slightly different way. When you spray on the surface lubrication near a badge, piece of body molding or piece of trim the piece of dirt that is hiding in the water under the badge can get drawn out and trapped in your clay and ground into the paint.

Some people have good results with their method but they fail to realize that there are people out there who have not clayed before and pass on their short cut and that is where problems can occur.


Yeah, the car was completly dry, becuse it was a few hours between washing and starting to claybar the car. Now having said that I did wet the car considerably when I started to use the claybar with the lub provided in the mothers claybar box, per the directions. I sprayed a 2 foot by 2 foot area with the lub and then used the clayblock just in that area.

Meguiar's chemicals 1, 2, 3 (paint cleaner, polish, and canabara wax times 2) all following the directions on the bottles.
I tell people all the time not to polish unless they absolutly need to and this is why. What sort of applicator did you apply the poish with?

I used a terrycloth applicator made by the same guys who make the towels I bought from Autozone. It was a small round pad. I bought 10 of them in a pack so I could use a new one with each chemical.

I used terrycloth cotton towels I bought from Autozone.
I think this could be where part of your problem comes from as well. Those towels probably aren't 100% cotton. 100% of the cotton they used was 100% cotton but they probably used some sort of cotton/poly blend. That said, did you wash and dry them before you used them? If not they are often brittle and can scratch paint.

No I unfortunetly used them right out of the bag. I will wash them first in the future. I did notice that bits of cloth kept flying around as I used them, so they were not very strong.

So the process was wash the car to remove the wax, I did this twice, then put the car in the garage
I am sure you removed all the dirt so that is not a concern now. However did you leave your vette wet as you clayed?

I started with it dry and then used the lub for the clay.

spent a few hours using the claybar, which I would first spray the lub on the car in an area the size of 2 feet by 2 feet. I then rubbed the bar back and forth listening for noises of stuff being picked up by the claybar. When I could feel no more pulling and no more noise I moved on to another area.
I actually find claying to be theraputic. I was nervous the first time too. Were you wiping it dry when you finished the section?

No I left it wet and moved on to another section, and then once I had done the whole car I washed it again with the crystal wash

The cars paint had sort of a flat look at this point. Not much gloss.
Hmmmm, clay should not dull it. Perhaps the Dove washing had some sort of adverse reaction to the paint and it was revealed afterward. Torch red is clear coated for that year, correct?

It's possible that this was an aftermarket paint job as I just bought the car in November. How can I tell if it was clear coated?

Then I put the Meguiar's paint cleaner on it, and rubbed it in in circles, let it dry for a few minutes and then wiped with a terrycloth.
Ohhhh nooooo! Not circles. I blew out my shoulder (2 times total now) several years ago and had to switch from circular motions to side-to-side and up-and-down motions. I found that it made a huge difference in the amount of surface scratching. A lot of companies now suggest this too because of the way the sunlight gets refracted to the side and not in various directions (aka the swirls you are referring to). Plus you removed a dry product with a brittle towel. I know your name is Jedi, but I hope you didn't apply too much force when rubbing the product off!

Well I am a rockclimber so my shoulders are up to the challange of this, helps that I am still young too. I have heard since I did this to go side to side and not in circles a'la wax on wax off (I could be showing my age with that quote;) But I did not rub too hard, I knew ahead of time to be careful with this and the polish due to the abrasives.

Then did the same with the polish
Same answer as above. Plus the addition of the abrasives in the polish added to the eventual result.

and then the canabara wax twice.
I don't think you can get depth with that series. My suggestion is switching over to Meguiar's #26.

I am going to be ordering a bunch of stuff from them so I will add it too the order.

The car looked a little bit duller then when I first bought it but I figured I could fix that when it got warmer during the spring and could spend more time on the paint. Now I see swirl marks, and these straight lines when the light hits it just right. Anu suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
I'll make a few suggestions once you have replied to the questions and suppositions I made.


Thanks again for all your help Detailingdude
 
I have heard since I did this to go side to side and not in circles a'la wax on wax off

oh no! has Mr. Meagi (sp?) taught me wrong? good thing i read this, or i would be going in circles too! Daniel San has probally been using the circle method too long to fix his ol car now :( ;LOL

for refferance, you were talkin about the Karate Kid right? that was a great movie, i should rent it again or somthin some time.

And DetailingDude thanks for sayin not to go in circles, because that is what i would have done, and you just saved me sholder pain and surface damage!
 
You Said:
I washed the car using Dove, which I was told would remove the wax without hurting the paint then Meguiar's Crystal wash.

I Said:
Note to self: Don't get side tracked here! Although it is so difficult to keep from going on a rant right about now. Grrr! I have some other posts on here regarding surface prep under "My Car Care Philosophy" that I think should be read right about now.

You Said:
Can you point me to where I can find these posts on Surface prep?

I Said:
These are inter-forum links to My Car Care Philosophy (Part 1) and My Car Care Philosophy (Part 2)
There's a lot of the same information in both posts but Part 2 covers abrasives a bit more indepth.


------------------------

You Said:
Then I used a mothers claybar with their liquid detailer as a lub, which is what the directions recommended

I Said:
Excellent clay bar. However, was the car 100% dry when you clayed it? I know some people like the car to be wet when they clay, and perhaps I am way too anal but what I have found after claying probably 1,000 cars myself is two things:

Sometimes I miss a spot when I am washing and when I go to dry the car I notice the area and I need to wash that area again. So I am saying that you may have missed a tiny area on your car and some of the dirt got trapped in your clay bar and you rubbed it into your paint.

Another thing is that water is attraced to other water. Ever notice 2 beads of water close together and they seem magnatized and the two join to form a bigger one? Well, the same thing can happen when you are claying but in a slightly different way. When you spray on the surface lubrication near a badge, piece of body molding or piece of trim the piece of dirt that is hiding in the water under the badge can get drawn out and trapped in your clay and ground into the paint.

Some people have good results with their method but they fail to realize that there are people out there who have not clayed before and pass on their short cut and that is where problems can occur.


You Said:
Yeah, the car was completly dry, becuse it was a few hours between washing and starting to claybar the car. Now having said that I did wet the car considerably when I started to use the claybar with the lub provided in the mothers claybar box, per the directions. I sprayed a 2 foot by 2 foot area with the lub and then used the clayblock just in that area.

I Said:
It looks to me like you did the claying process perfectly. Did you dry the area with those towels when you were finished

---------------------------------

You Said:
Meguiar's chemicals 1, 2, 3 (paint cleaner, polish, and canabara wax times 2) all following the directions on the bottles.

I Said:
I tell people all the time not to polish unless they absolutly need to and this is why. What sort of applicator did you apply the poish with?

You Said:
I used a terrycloth applicator made by the same guys who make the towels I bought from Autozone. It was a small round pad. I bought 10 of them in a pack so I could use a new one with each chemical.

I Said:
I have used those applicators in the past and found them to be fine. Although I generally use sponge applicators now. However, if the product began to dry on the applicator and you pressed the dry product onto the surface you may have induced a few of those marks.

-----------------------------

You Said:
I used terrycloth cotton towels I bought from Autozone.
I think this could be where part of your problem comes from as well. Those towels probably aren't 100% cotton. 100% of the cotton they used was 100% cotton but they probably used some sort of cotton/poly blend. That said, did you wash and dry them before you used them? If not they are often brittle and can scratch paint.

You Said:
No I unfortunetly used them right out of the bag. I will wash them first in the future. I did notice that bits of cloth kept flying around as I used them, so they were not very strong.

I Said:
I suggest writing them off. Use them to clean up fluid spills on your garage floor. I don't like passing off links away from this forum so I will let anyone else do that but I suggest some true 100% cotton towels and microfiber towels.

--------------------------

You Said:
So the process was wash the car to remove the wax, I did this twice, then put the car in the garage

I Said:
I am sure you removed all the dirt so that is not a concern now. However did you leave your vette wet as you clayed?

You Said:
I started with it dry and then used the lub for the clay.

I Said:
Kewl.

-------------------------------

You Said:
spent a few hours using the claybar, which I would first spray the lub on the car in an area the size of 2 feet by 2 feet. I then rubbed the bar back and forth listening for noises of stuff being picked up by the claybar. When I could feel no more pulling and no more noise I moved on to another area.

I Said:
I actually find claying to be theraputic. I was nervous the first time too. Were you wiping it dry when you finished the section?

You Said:
No I left it wet and moved on to another section, and then once I had done the whole car I washed it again with the crystal wash

I Said:
I like the additional wash. Did you check the surface with a cigarette wrapper? Here's another inter-forum link to The Ultimate Clay Bar Guide. It describes the claying process.

-------------------------------------

You Said:
The cars paint had sort of a flat look at this point. Not much gloss.

I Said:
Hmmmm, clay should not dull it. Perhaps the Dove washing had some sort of adverse reaction to the paint and it was revealed afterward. Torch red is clear coated for that year, correct?

You Said:
It's possible that this was an aftermarket paint job as I just bought the car in November. How can I tell if it was clear coated?

I Said:
Well it is pretty easy to do but hard to describe. Hmmmmm, let me work on that one, k?

---------------------------

You Said:
Then I put the Meguiar's paint cleaner on it, and rubbed it in in circles, let it dry for a few minutes and then wiped with a terrycloth.

I Said:
Ohhhh nooooo! Not circles. I blew out my shoulder (2 times total now) several years ago and had to switch from circular motions to side-to-side and up-and-down motions. I found that it made a huge difference in the amount of surface scratching. A lot of companies now suggest this too because of the way the sunlight gets refracted to the side and not in various directions (aka the swirls you are referring to). Plus you removed a dry product with a brittle towel. I know your name is Jedi, but I hope you didn't apply too much force when rubbing the product off!

You Said:
Well I am a rockclimber so my shoulders are up to the challange of this, helps that I am still young too. I have heard since I did this to go side to side and not in circles a'la wax on wax off (I could be showing my age with that quote;) But I did not rub too hard, I knew ahead of time to be careful with this and the polish due to the abrasives.

I Said:
Good.

------------------

Then did the same with the polish
Same answer as above. Plus the addition of the abrasives in the polish added to the eventual result.

and then the canabara wax twice.
I don't think you can get depth with that series. My suggestion is switching over to Meguiar's #26.

I am going to be ordering a bunch of stuff from them so I will add it too the order.



I think the problem is on a few levels but no permanent damage was done. First off I think you did the claying incredibly well. I am somewhat interested in the affect that Dove had on your finish but I that should not have been any long lasting problem especially since you went right into the next levels of surface care. I am concerned for your plastic trim but I will have to do some invesitgating on Dove.

Secondly, as you will notice in My Car Care Philosophy that I am not at all in favor of using a polish on a car just because it is Step 2 of a package. A polish should be used to eliminate a problem and not a part of an integrated package as Meguiar's has done. The do have many fine products which perform as marketed when the directions are followed but skip the polish next time unless you are treating a specific problem.

Thirdly, I don't know how long you allowed the products to haze and how much of them you had to buff off but I think that a bit of your problem came from there. There are a few products that should be allowed to 'haze' on the car but a polish is not one of them.

Finally, I think that your towels are equally as guilty as the polish and the dryness of the product you buffed off.


--------------------------

Thanks again for all your help Detailingdude

Not a problem.

My remedy: Do you want to digest the above post and then decide what, if any, remedy you are going to go with?
 
Good stuff Detaildude! I suspected the towels might be a problem. I would be intersted in any recommendations you might have. You can email me directly at my email address below. I did not check the surface with the cig wrapper but I will need some clarification on how to do that. Please by all means if you have any suggestions on how to repair this please post them. I would be very appreciative (bad spellin and all). Thanks again for all your help.
Jedi
av8tr@keyva.com
 
I think we must have set some sort of world record on post length. It was mind boggleing keeping my thoughts in order, formatting and then the fear that we'd hit the limit lock up my PC :Twist .

I'd rather have everything posted on here so everybody can benefit from it.
 
I agree, I could have used this stuff before I had my little adventure.
Jedi
 
DetailDude has given you sound advice. Many of the points that he has mentioned were things that I was thinking as well.

You must promise not to use those AutoZone towels on your car again, please. They are awful. Delegate them to "grime duty" on your tires or something.

There is one point that I would like to add in regard to the method that you used to clay your car. Overall, it sounds like you did it correctly and the clay did it's job, but one thing that I do is actually take the clay bar and break off small pieces in order to form what look like silver dollar pancakes. It is these silver dollar pancake size pieces that I use on the car and not the entire bar all at once. The reasons: If you drop that clay bar, you might as well toss it out. If you drop a small piece, then you still have many fresh pieces to use. And second, by using the small pieces there is no kneeding of the clay bar involved. If you are not kneeding the clay bar, then you are not forcing contaminants back into the clay and into contact with your paint; you will always begin with a fresh/clean clay surface. You can utilize both sides of the "pancake" and then toss it out.

This is a method that I really like and find effective.

6Shooter - Don't be afraid to clay your car. It's actually more damaging to NOT clay it than it is to clay it. From what I have read of Jedi's posts, it was not the clay itself that caused what he is seeing.
 
It's real easy to pick up a little sand around the wheel wells . I did and had to do a little polishing above the rear wheel. But claying did a great job on my car. I used the mothers kit too.
 
I realy hate to take you all the way to the beginning because I know you've put a tone of work into it but here's my rememdy:

Step 1: Wash

Step 2: Clay
I know you recently clayed but it has been more than a month but the work you could be doing you'll want to make sure that you're not unecessarily grinding dirt into your paint. If you check over your paint with a cigarette wrapper like I suggest in the clay bar guide and you find nothing on your paint then you can skip this step.

Step 3: DeWax
I am hoping that the surface scratches are mainly in your wax. If you DeWax with 3M General Purpose Adhesive Cleaner you may find them gone.

Step 4: Inspect
Check to see if the damage is still there. If it is begin introducing your wax system. If the damage remains you can choose from a few of options:

Step 5: Minimize it, Hide it, or Remove it.
What you do and your result will depend upon the severity of the damage and the products you choose. There is no standardize answer to this part.

Give me a quick inventory of the products you have in your garage.
 
Re: Re: Clay bar left scratches in my paint!!!!

DetailingDude said:
Give me a quick inventory of the products you have in your garage. [/B]

Sorry it took so long for me to get back to you.
I have the following products that were used to detail the car.

Of course Dawn dish washing detergent
Meguiar's Softwash Gel
Mothers clay bar
Meguiar's "Deep Crystal" 3 step system which consists of
Paint cleaner
Polish
and Carnauba wax

I took more time to look at the scratches and I have both circular and long stright lines in the hood which are where I recall running the clay bar. What do you think?
Jedi
 

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