Comments on a new garage heater I have installed

[IH2LOSE]

http://www.rezspec.com/index.php?pageid=000000000007&mod_catalog

For some reason I cant get the link to work it there model udap

its from a company who has been around a long time and is sold by most hvac suppy houses


This is a very light weight effcent heating unit in a tiny package.It is a direct vent unit with a draft inducer built in to it. this just more or less means you can side wall vent the unit you dont need to go up thru a roof.It has a fan on feature that will allow the unit to constantly circulate air by keeping the blower running when its not calling for heat.It operate's from any standard 24 volt thermostat. It has a clearence of only 1" needed on the top and one side so if you have a low ceiling hieght it can practicly be mounted to the ceiling or up against a wall.

This unit uses indoor air for combustion,they have another model that use's outdoor air for combustion but it was double the price. (why did I have to be born soo cheap) the one that use's outdoor air is definatley a better option for an active working garage because its using clean air from outside not dirty contaminated garage air.(cleaner combustion air from the out side means less maintinence and less chance of an explosion if you are painting) The other benifit of outdoor air for combustion is that you not using the air that you just paid to heat you garage,also you have less infiltration but in a garage its not quite as important to avoid infiltration as it is in a home.

I got tired and just have to connect electic to it tomorow night to get it up and running.So after tomorow night I should be able to get back in the garage and complete some of the project I was supposed to do last winter.

I have been going back and forth with the vilage I live in to get a vareance to exstend my garage 11 feet wider and have been holding off on installing this but its so simple to install I figured if it take another 3 months to get my permit at least I be warm while I am working on the car.

When I do exstend my garage I plan on installing a mini slit a/c system to manage the humidity levels in the garage.I am really not concerned with how cool it is in the garage I am istalling it mainly to maintain a reasonable humidity level in those steamy days of july and august.

If you guys have heat or a/c question please ask it what I do as a proffesion

 

[IH2LOSE]

WOW

What a pleasure to have a heated garage.I should have done this 15 years ago.

The worst part is I am in the industry

 

[Subfixer]

What size did you end up with? My garage is 768 sq/ft. I'll be insulating and adding heat this year.

 

[IH2LOSE]

What size did you end up with? My garage is 768 sq/ft. I'll be insulating and adding heat this year.

My garage will be a total of 529 square feet super insulated.A rule of thumb for sizing a gargae is 65 btus per square feet
so 529x65=34,385.00 btus output need to heat the area.

The unit I purchased is a called a 45,000.00 input unit 83% afue means it has an output rating of 37,000.00 so I am sized close for my garage just a tiny bit over sized.With a garage you really cant oversize the unit because you need a quick recovery especailly if you are bringing a dailey drive in and out.

Depending on what your using the garage for I would suggest you getting the 60,000 btu unit 768square feetx65 btus=49,992.00 net out put needed and the 60,000.00 btu unit is 50,000.00 btus output.

If you think you need a real quick recovery go bigger but if your looking to just maintain tempitures your OK with the 60.

In a home inveroment I would never suggest oversizing a heater because the unit will cycle often But in a garage you want the added btus to recover from opening the door or pulling in an ice cold car.

 

[tonyk72]

Are any of those propane units? My house is heated by propane & I was looking for a heater & blower to heat my 2 car garage...what would a unit cost me...how about installation costs? I seen a unit similar to this :

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/LLCategoryDisplayView?storeId=6970&langId=-1&catalogId=4006970&PHOTOS=on&TEST=Y&productId=629130&categoryId=155629

for $100...Is that any good? Thanks

 

[IH2LOSE]

Are any of those propane units? My house is heated by propane & I was looking for a heater & blower to heat my 2 car garage...what would a unit cost me...how about installation costs? I seen a unit similar to this :

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/LLCategoryDisplayView?storeId=6970&langId=-1&catalogId=4006970&PHOTOS=on&TEST=Y&productId=629130&categoryId=155629

for $100...Is that any good? Thanks

The unit you have a link to is called a
"vent free"
"Non vented"
"ventless"

Its all marketing terms there is no such thing as a vent free unit.They should call it what it really is a room vented or garage vented unit.Meaning that all of the byproducts of combustion are put back into the room/garage.

The byproduct of combustion with any type of fossil fuel is not good for a car to be stored in No less a human being.

allthough they are legal,I do not think they are safe or a good product to deal with.These are products that are available to me and I will not sell them to a customer I would rather pass on making a profit then to sell or install what I feel is a bad product.

Lastley the unit I have installed is available in propane.We used to install a simular product called a HOT DAWG made by modine and our average installed price was around 1900.00 to 2500.00 including gas and electric and permits

 

[Dave L.]

Since we are on the subject of garage heating again,I'd like some advice. My new home under construction will have a 1200 sq ft fully insulated garage. I am having a natural gas line installed in the garage. I'd like to keep the garage moderately heated 50 degrees or so in the dead of winter and warmer of course when I'm working out in the garage. What would you suggest for a heating source? Thanks in advance.

 

[IH2LOSE]

Since we are on the subject of garage heating again,I'd like some advice. My new home under construction will have a 1200 sq ft fully insulated garage. I am having a natural gas line installed in the garage. I'd like to keep the garage moderately heated 50 degrees or so in the dead of winter and warmer of course when I'm working out in the garage. What would you suggest for a heating source? Thanks in advance.

1200 is a large garage.



The absolute best way to heat an area I feel is with in floor radiant heat, but it is the most expensive and it also does not do well with offsetting temperatures. Meaning keeping it set on 50 degrees then when you want to work on the car raising it up to 65 degrees. Radiant heat can not recover quickly because of the large mass (the floor and all the contents of the garage) before you start to feel your comfort. But it’s also a type of heat that is maintained at lower temperature levels. Absolute best type of heat for comfort but I don’t feel it’s realistic for a garage area.



Heating with water either a hanging water to air blower, or plain old baseboard (normally in a garage you don’t have enough wall space (because of storage along the walls) to effective heat a garage with baseboard) Or even a hydro coil I don’t recommend any of the above water source systems to heat with because of the risk of freezing pipes. You can install freastats that will circulate the water in the pipes if it gets to a set danger level. Or you could have a special type of anti freeze install for the garage water piping. So yes it can be done but with all the extra work what would be the benefit? If you have natural gas or propane available install a separate VENTED unit heater for the garage. If you only have oil then I would suggest using a hydro air or hanging water to air hanging unit.



So assuming you have natural or propane available for a simple affordable set up you can’t beat these style of hanging unit heaters. There main benefits are that they are small in size so you don’t have clearance problems in a low garage like the old style units. They are quiet, they don’t vibrate as the old giant prop style heaters used to.

They are also very efficient 83% A.F.U.E most home don’t even have a heater this efficient. The only down side that I see to them is having to have an additional flue system exiting the home ,That’s it



As for your garage I would suggest a unit with at least 78,000 btus net output. but with the size of your garage it might be better to install two smaller unit then one large one depending on the length .What we give up for quietness with one of these smaller units is that the prop style fan does not have a lot of balls to throw the air far. They have a chart in one of there online engineering pdf file that shows how weak the motor actually is. Although the btus are still the same I don’t feel they can circulate and change the air enough times in a long area to effectively work. So under standing the throw of this blower helps us decide to go to two smaller unit’s rather then one larger one.



The other option is to install a ducted warm air furnace. I chose not to do that only because of the simplicity of this quiet efficient hanging heater .


Good luck

 

[Dave L.]

Thanks. I'm leaning towards a Renzor/vented or similar hanging unit as you suggest. I'm going to get prices from several local AC/heating contractors so I can determine the best location for the gas line before all the insulation and drywall goes in.
Thanks again,I appreciate the quick reply and advice!

 

[Evolution1980]

I (my dad's garage) has one of these units from Enerco:
http://www.enerco.com/garageshop.htm, except ours is a larger model not shown. (Notice the car in their smaple pic? )

The insulated garage is 6.5 cars (sq ft unknown by me) and it keeps it nice and warm at whatever I have the thermostat set at. It's a natural gas unit.

There's one on ebay right now for $265 shipped, new in box.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2596598195&category=26218

 

[cdr63corv]

Hey IH2LOSE, the air conditioning idea sounds good, had to pull a motor around the 4th of july and darn near cooked myself. What type of unit were you thinking of putting in? Thought about a bigger window unit but dont want to lose my window any recommendations? My garage is around 1400 sq. ft........

 

[Dave L.]

Evo- I had considered that type (and still am) but due to the size of my garage I didn't know how many of these units I'd have to install. Does your dads garage have just 1?
My garage is 30 X 40 (6 car).

Thanks..Dave

 

[IH2LOSE]

I (my dad's garage) has one of these units from Enerco:
http://www.enerco.com/garageshop.htm, except ours is a larger model not shown. (Notice the car in their smaple pic? )

The insulated garage is 6.5 cars (sq ft unknown by me) and it keeps it nice and warm at whatever I have the thermostat set at. It's a natural gas unit.

There's one on ebay right now for $265 shipped, new in box.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2596598195&category=26218

Evolution the unit you have sent a link to is a room vented unit.

I really dont advise them because they are putting the by products of combustion back into the living/storage area.Its very corrosive and also posionous.They sell simular units like this that are vented but they heat as the SUN in the sky does.So you have to be real carefull on there location because of clearence in a standard garage they can ruin the paint on a car or melt the roof racks off of a SUV. Last year we removed a nice set of radent tube heater out of a garage and reinstalled 3 of the hot dawg heaters because the tube heaters were installed in the wrong application and had destroyed the roofs on some exspecive excotic cars and one SUV roof rack

 

[Evolution1980]

BURGLAR, yep, just the one.

Evolution the unit you have sent a link to is a room vented unit.
I really dont advise them because they are putting the by products of combustion back into the living/storage area.Its very corrosive and also posionous.

Hmmm...that's interesting. Although I'm sure there is some trace amount of emissions from the unit, I thought natural gas ("NG") was touted as one of the holy grails of clean burning fuels?
What kind of corrosion and poisons are we talking about? In what qty and over what approximate amount of time?
The heater is only used in the winter to keep it around 55°F. It's triggered by a mercury switch thermostat.
Based on the approximate size of the garage, the limited(?) use that it gets only during the winter season, and that we need to open the 2-car garage door to move cars around, how detrimental are we talking here? If my car sits in the garage for 5 months, are the effects even noticable? After 5 years?

I ask because I just bought a house with a 2.5 car attached garage. I was going to have one installed next winter season.

 

[IH2LOSE]

Hey IH2LOSE, the air conditioning idea sounds good, had to pull a motor around the 4th of july and darn near cooked myself. What type of unit were you thinking of putting in? Thought about a bigger window unit but dont want to lose my window any recommendations? My garage is around 1400 sq. ft........

Another giant garage.

In my garage I will be installing a fujitsu unit

http://www.fujitsugeneral.co.jp/english/products/aircon/products/split/wall_mounted/index.html

Again my garage is less the 600 square feet.I am going to install one of these units more for humidity removal then for cooling.But as we all know its not the heat that make you uncomfortable its the humidity.So a CRISP,DRY garage will feel cool and comfortable on a hot hummid day.When sizing for humiditey removal you want to undersize the a/c unit so it has longer on cycles.If the unit is over sized it will remove the sencable heat(what we measure on the thermostat)real fast and the unit will go off and leave the latent heat( the humidity) So I would not advise sizing a cooling system for making a garage cool because you will have to oversize it soo much for the load that it just wont work on emoving the humidity. Again these are my personal belifes.We have installed hundreds of system to carry an a/c load for a garage but it leaves the humidity levels high.It all depends on what you want.I am more concerned with having a crisp dry garage then a cool garage.Mine will be cool compared to the out door tempiture but certainly not the same level as I would design for in a home enviroment.

The reason I have chose the above unit is because this unit has a dehydration setting in it that will alow the unit to remove humidity and it also has a built in low ambent kit that will allow the unit to run at lower outdoor tempiture's to maintain the indoor setting were as a normal a/c sytem will not effectively run in lower outdoor tempitures with out adding in controls. I am on the east cost and for the load of my garage with the understanding I will be more concerned with humidity removal I will be installing the 12,000 btu model.

 

[IH2LOSE]

BURGLAR, yep, just the one.

Hmmm...that's interesting. Although I'm sure there is some trace amount of emissions from the unit, I thought natural gas ("NG") was touted as one of the holy grails of clean burning fuels?
What kind of corrosion and poisons are we talking about? In what qty and over what approximate amount of time?
The heater is only used in the winter to keep it around 55°F. It's triggered by a mercury switch thermostat.
Based on the approximate size of the garage, the limited(?) use that it gets only during the winter season, and that we need to open the 2-car garage door to move cars around, how detrimental are we talking here? If my car sits in the garage for 5 months, are the effects even noticable? After 5 years?

I ask because I just bought a house with a 2.5 car attached garage. I was going to have one installed next winter season.

I had replied to this but it never showed up sorry

Its like asking a doctor "how many ciggarettes can I smoke a day and not get cancer?

Here is a link to a web site with some great information on it.

http://www.naturalhandyman.com/iip/infsisters/infco.shtm

Yes gas burnig products do burn clean.But these units are not magic.they can not turn the byproduct of combustion into a safe substance. Again I really dont understand how they are legal on the market.

 

[IH2LOSE]

PS while on the subject of Carbon monoxide

NO HOME BURNING FOSSIL FUEL SHOULD BE WITH OUT A DETECTOR.

I cant say it enough times ,they are affourdable and easey to install.Go get one today if you dont have one.If it goes off after you install it have the heating units checked out imedately.The one I would recomend are the ones with a digital display showing levels in ppm. a good detector should cost you any where from 40 to 60 dollars.I am in the industry and I hear more of unnessary DEATHS that could of and should have been avoided.We also go into hundreds of homes a year and the chimney is colasped,or not working correct and they have high CO readings and its only by the grace of god that the familys have not perished.

Want to give out a great present next year for christmas or a holiday give some one you love or want to protect a co detector.

I sincerly cant stress this enough PUT ONE IN YOUR HOME