Dealer service hourly prices

[jedi]

I am amazed at the hourly prices charged by dealers. I called around to a couple of shops this morning and found one dealer charged $89.50 per hour for things like battery changes or oil but then depending on the type of service the price goes up to as much as $150 an hour. I also have an aftermarket warranty and they charge a separate rate for insurance or warranty service of $107.50. What gives? Is this legal? I found this at 2 separate dealers.
Jedi

 

[tntcorvette]

I am amazed at the hourly prices charged by dealers. I called around to a couple of shops this morning and found one dealer charged $89.50 per hour for things like battery changes or oil but then depending on the type of service the price goes up to as much as $150 an hour. I also have an aftermarket warranty and they charge a separate rate for insurance or warranty service of $107.50. What gives? Is this legal? I found this at 2 separate dealers.
Jedi

It proabbly is legal....just another reason I do not take my Corvette to a GM dealer.............wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy to much money.

 

[JonM]

Lots of overhead at a dealer...

Insurance
Rent
Employees Salery and Insurance
Training
Equipment
Boss sitting on his big fat butt
...and so on

 

[Moonunit 451]

Same thing goes on in the medical field, one price for ins. co.'s, but you pay more if it's outa your own pocket. $hit's kinda upside down, ain't it? :crazy

 

[Edmond]

I don't know what the dealerships around here charge per hour; I stopped going when I saw $79 an hour and that was years ago!:L

 

[92conv]

There is a shop here in SD that prices it as 65.00 an hr. which isn't too bad for specializing in corvettes.

 

[Vettelt193]

I said this before, but will chime in again.


I wouldn't mind paying $100+ an hour for a trained vette tech IF they billed for the time actually worked on the car. What I found is a trained Corvette specialist can get a corvette specific job done in half the time (and it's right the first time) as a regular mechanic but then they still bill for the time the computer tells them it will take.

So, the computer says it takes 4 hours to change an opti-spark... the tech actually takes 2 but you still pay for 4 AND at the higher rate 'corvette tech' rate.

Now of course, if they have issues and it takes 6 hours instead of 4 hours they will bill you for the full 6. It is a bunch of BS

 

[AdvancedAutoCC]

I said this before, but will chime in again.


I wouldn't mind paying $100+ an hour for a trained vette tech IF they billed for the time actually worked on the car. What I found is a trained Corvette specialist can get a corvette specific job done in half the time (and it's right the first time) as a regular mechanic but then they still bill for the time the computer tells them it will take.

So, the computer says it takes 4 hours to change an opti-spark... the tech actually takes 2 but you still pay for 4 AND at the higher rate 'corvette tech' rate.

Now of course, if they have issues and it takes 6 hours instead of 4 hours they will bill you for the full 6. It is a bunch of BS

It would depend on the "issues" as to whether or not to charge extra time for the job, plus it goes without saying that the customer should be notified what that problem is. If, however, it's simply that the "tech" (BADLY overused term these days) couldn't figure things out, then no, there should be no addtional charge for his incompetence. I've said it too many times before, but I'll ay it again... if you think of automotive service in terms of a "commodity" to be priced, you'll get what you pay for every time. My shop labor rate has increased twice in the last year and a half, and is going up again next month. Has this affected business? Let's see....my waiting list is now 6 months plus, so I suppose not. I'm still well under the dealer, too.

YMMV

 

[jedi]

It would depend on the "issues" as to whether or not to charge extra time for the job, plus it goes without saying that the customer should be notified what that problem is. If, however, it's simply that the "tech" (BADLY overused term these days) couldn't figure things out, then no, there should be no addtional charge for his incompetence. I've said it too many times before, but I'll ay it again... if you think of automotive service in terms of a "commodity" to be priced, you'll get what you pay for every time. My shop labor rate has increased twice in the last year and a half, and is going up again next month. Has this affected business? Let's see....my waiting list is now 6 months plus, so I suppose not. I'm still well under the dealer, too.

YMMV

What if they can't find anything wrong. I took my car into the same dealer last month to check out a slipping transmission in overdrive. They could not recreate the problem and said it was normal, but still charged me just shy of $100.

 

[AdvancedAutoCC]

What if they can't find anything wrong. I took my car into the same dealer last month to check out a slipping transmission in overdrive. They could not recreate the problem and said it was normal, but still charged me just shy of $100.

If it was diagnostic labor, this is normal. I always inform customers upfront about diagnostic labor to as to avoid confusion later on (yes..it is a separate charge from repair labor). There's also the issue of a minimum charge, some shops have one, some dont. Most dealers do. Auto repair isn't nearly as simple as it used to be, but the perception of it hasn't changed to reflect that fact.

 

[Chris Kennedy]

The world of auto repair has to be the last big consumer area which has NOT undergone a revolution in service in recent years. Think of what Ebay and the various nationwide used car networks have done for auto purchase and sale, parts etc etc and you get my drift. Notwithstanding everything, it still seems to be the case that most of us are adamant (rightly I think) that auto repair shops, dealers etc. charge way too much for their work, most don't know what they're doing and make you pay for their learning time, and they also exhibit an "attitude" (especially concerning cars like ours) that they think gives them the right to keep the car forever while giving you excuses as to why the work is taking so long, not getting done etc. Finally, when you pick up the car it's filthy and/or something has been broken or scratched, the work hasn't been done right AND you are presented with some huge bill. We have all been through this sort of awful experience, in which you end up feeling like you and your property are being held captive.

What's really needed is some sort of "Wal Mart of Auto Repair" that does for auto repair what Wal Mart and other similar operations have done for buying so many things. That is, provide the product promptly (in this case service) at a cheaper price. The fact that this might drive lots of mom and pop auto repair places out of business doesn't bother me in the least, as many should have gone out of business long ago and deserve to go out of business.

/s/ Chris Kennedy
Houston, Texas

 

[Chris Kennedy]

Something I would add to my previous posting is that I have yet to find in the auto repair business any correlation between price and the quality of service received. In fact, some of the toniest looking repair shops, I think, "market" this idea that they are specialists, or that you are paying more but getting more, and when you go in and want something simple done they either find something else to do in addition, or say "well, to really do this right we need to.....".

Just this week I had this experience trying to get the air conditioner fully charged up in my Ebay '89 rat. It actually felt o.k. as it was, but I really didn't have a point to measure from since I only rescued the poor car three months ago, so wanted to get everything full charged and see how it performed. So, I went to an air specialist, and the guy was into $140 work of "checking" bunches of things before I pulled the plug. Not only was the air conditioner not recharged, but the guy refused to give me an overall conclusion on the system, saying how he couldn't do that because he need to check/disassemble something else. Anyway, I told him that was it, and paid the bill and left. I felt like an idiot for getting suckered by this. So, next day I went to a place most people look at and recoil from where I get the oil changed, things welded etc., they take me in on the spot understand exactly what I wanted to do even though they speak broken English and we have to communicate partially in sign language, and a half hour later for $75 I have a fully recharged air conditioner and several new and related parts happily keeping me cool. Now, I know how it should perform, can check for leaks etc.

/s/ Chris Kennedy
Houston, Texas

 

[AdvancedAutoCC]

Here we go again (sigh)

The world of auto repair has to be the last big consumer area which has NOT undergone a revolution in service in recent years. Think of what Ebay and the various nationwide used car networks have done for auto purchase and sale, parts etc etc and you get my drift. Notwithstanding everything, it still seems to be the case that most of us are adamant (rightly I think) that auto repair shops, dealers etc. charge way too much for their work, most don't know what they're doing and make you pay for their learning time, and they also exhibit an "attitude" (especially concerning cars like ours) that they think gives them the right to keep the car forever while giving you excuses as to why the work is taking so long, not getting done etc. Finally, when you pick up the car it's filthy and/or something has been broken or scratched, the work hasn't been done right AND you are presented with some huge bill. We have all been through this sort of awful experience, in which you end up feeling like you and your property are being held captive.

What's really needed is some sort of "Wal Mart of Auto Repair" that does for auto repair what Wal Mart and other similar operations have done for buying so many things. That is, provide the product promptly (in this case service) at a cheaper price. The fact that this might drive lots of mom and pop auto repair places out of business doesn't bother me in the least, as many should have gone out of business long ago and deserve to go out of business.

/s/ Chris Kennedy
Houston, Texas

This statement in particular is what's wrong with the perception of automotive repair. Auto repair is a service, not a commodity. Plus, you state in the very next sentence to provide the service promptly and cheaper. This is a non-sequitur.
I can only speak from my personal experience (20+ years now) as to some of the allegations you raise. Yes, there are a lot of unqualified people working on cars...most of them are in the "fixit" type shops that cater to the price-only type of customers (gator-arms). You'll also find them in WAL-MART service centers, Goodyears, and the like... the big chain outfits are the place that hire the cheapest labor they can, paying strictly commission on top of a minimum wage which creates the "rip 'em off" mentality. Yeah... this is where I want my Vette going....NOT!
Next... the dealerships. Dealers are a good place to get trained (that's where I learned about ASR, ABS and GM OBD systems in detail), and the best techs usually leave after 2-5 years there to go work for a good independent shop. Most customers only speak with a service advisor at a dealership, and service advisors likely know less about your car then you do...their job is to sell work, nothing more. Good dealer techs are hard to keep.
Now... let's look at that "greedy" auto tech for a minute. Modern cars require specialized knowledge about fluid systems, electrical theory, computer and data systems, and HVAC systems, just to name a few. You also have tools to purchase (at your own expense), as well as ongoing training on several different makes (which of course, are all different). Myself, I have around $70,000 invested in tools and a good box to keep them in. I've made several Snap-On men happy as a result, but not because I wanted to. The dynamics of professional auto repair demanded it (broke too many tools "as good as" with "lifetime warranty"). Some guys in the field still don't understand that concept either (price only guys!).
Diagnostic equipment isn't free either.... I currently have $12000 invested in my MODIS system, with a Tech II coming into the shop next month (oh no..another $5000 to spend!) to better serve my GM customers. I also have Kent-Moore GM specific tools for diagnosing SIR (airbag) sytems, and a VATS Interrogator for VATS/PASSKEY systems. Do I give "free scans"? No, I do not..my time is valuable, just as much as yours is. I won't even go into the cost of my building, equipment, lifts, etc that aren't free either.
As to eBay "revolutionising" the auto industry..oh yeah, it's taking fraud to a whole new level. Case in point: A current customer of mine came in excitedly telling me about a car he bought on eBay for $14,000 (a genuine 63 Impala SS convertible) and started asking about upgrades for it, etc. He showed me the pictures of it, and it looked very nice in the photos. When it got here (delivered from another state by a delivery service), what he bought wasn't pretty. The engine, instead of a 327 was a redecaled 283, had a dead cylinder and would hardly run, the brakes were toast (all 4 corners were leaking fluid as well as the master) and the body was half built with bondo. It's currently getting a body-off restoration, and likely will cost near $100,000 to complete. I've been burned by eBay personally for parts purchases myself.

Now about the "attitude" presented to cars like ours... Most of the trouble is from the owner of the car, rather than the car itself. The emblems say "Corvette", but it's still a car..nothing more, nothing less. A good tech is NOT intimidated by any car, but at the same time will recognize his limitations. The real problem is bad owners, i.e. People who own Corvettes typically look down upon Mustang owners, Ferrari and Porsche owners look down upon Corvette owners, etc. etc. and the problem is self-perpetuating. As I get older, my tolerance for these types of people is less and less.
Now... if you go into a shop with a chip on your shoulder already, you're halfway on the journey to a bad experience. Most qualified shops weed out problem customers, and I most certainly do. I leave the price shoppers to the guys that love to be "the cheapest in town", and their parking lots reflect that very fact. Take a good look next time you're out as to what kind of cars are in the lot...are they broken down "hooptys", clearly on their last legs? There's your "Wal Mart of Auto Repair"... always low prices...always. And service to match, trust me. You cannot have high quality and low price at the same time...it's just not possible. There's a difference between "price" and "value".
I'm sorry you've had bad experiences in auto repair, you're obviously very bitter from a bad experience or experiences from an obviously unqualified shop.

There are two sayings that apply here, that I use every day.
"The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten..." This goes hand in hand with:
"There are people who know the price of everything and the value of nothing..."

Words to live by.

 

[Chris Kennedy]

This statement in particular is what's wrong with the perception of automotive repair. Auto repair is a service, not a commodity. Plus, you state in the very next sentence to provide the service promptly and cheaper. This is a non-sequitur.
I can only speak from my personal experience (20+ years now) as to some of the allegations you raise. Yes, there are a lot of unqualified people working on cars...most of them are in the "fixit" type shops that cater to the price-only type of customers (gator-arms). You'll also find them in WAL-MART service centers, Goodyears, and the like... the big chain outfits are the place that hire the cheapest labor they can, paying strictly commission on top of a minimum wage which creates the "rip 'em off" mentality. Yeah... this is where I want my Vette going....NOT!
Next... the dealerships. Dealers are a good place to get trained (that's where I learned about ASR, ABS and GM OBD systems in detail), and the best techs usually leave after 2-5 years there to go work for a good independent shop. Most customers only speak with a service advisor at a dealership, and service advisors likely know less about your car then you do...their job is to sell work, nothing more. Good dealer techs are hard to keep.
Now... let's look at that "greedy" auto tech for a minute. Modern cars require specialized knowledge about fluid systems, electrical theory, computer and data systems, and HVAC systems, just to name a few. You also have tools to purchase (at your own expense), as well as ongoing training on several different makes (which of course, are all different). Myself, I have around $70,000 invested in tools and a good box to keep them in. I've made several Snap-On men happy as a result, but not because I wanted to. The dynamics of professional auto repair demanded it (broke too many tools "as good as" with "lifetime warranty"). Some guys in the field still don't understand that concept either (price only guys!).
Diagnostic equipment isn't free either.... I currently have $12000 invested in my MODIS system, with a Tech II coming into the shop next month (oh no..another $5000 to spend!) to better serve my GM customers. I also have Kent-Moore GM specific tools for diagnosing SIR (airbag) sytems, and a VATS Interrogator for VATS/PASSKEY systems. Do I give "free scans"? No, I do not..my time is valuable, just as much as yours is. I won't even go into the cost of my building, equipment, lifts, etc that aren't free either.
As to eBay "revolutionising" the auto industry..oh yeah, it's taking fraud to a whole new level. Case in point: A current customer of mine came in excitedly telling me about a car he bought on eBay for $14,000 (a genuine 63 Impala SS convertible) and started asking about upgrades for it, etc. He showed me the pictures of it, and it looked very nice in the photos. When it got here (delivered from another state by a delivery service), what he bought wasn't pretty. The engine, instead of a 327 was a redecaled 283, had a dead cylinder and would hardly run, the brakes were toast (all 4 corners were leaking fluid as well as the master) and the body was half built with bondo. It's currently getting a body-off restoration, and likely will cost near $100,000 to complete. I've been burned by eBay personally for parts purchases myself.

Now about the "attitude" presented to cars like ours... Most of the trouble is from the owner of the car, rather than the car itself. The emblems say "Corvette", but it's still a car..nothing more, nothing less. A good tech is NOT intimidated by any car, but at the same time will recognize his limitations. The real problem is bad owners, i.e. People who own Corvettes typically look down upon Mustang owners, Ferrari and Porsche owners look down upon Corvette owners, etc. etc. and the problem is self-perpetuating. As I get older, my tolerance for these types of people is less and less.
Now... if you go into a shop with a chip on your shoulder already, you're halfway on the journey to a bad experience. Most qualified shops weed out problem customers, and I most certainly do. I leave the price shoppers to the guys that love to be "the cheapest in town", and their parking lots reflect that very fact. Take a good look next time you're out as to what kind of cars are in the lot...are they broken down "hooptys", clearly on their last legs? There's your "Wal Mart of Auto Repair"... always low prices...always. And service to match, trust me. You cannot have high quality and low price at the same time...it's just not possible. There's a difference between "price" and "value".
I'm sorry you've had bad experiences in auto repair, you're obviously very bitter from a bad experience or experiences from an obviously unqualified shop.

There are two sayings that apply here, that I use every day.
"The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten..." This goes hand in hand with:
"There are people who know the price of everything and the value of nothing..."

Words to live by.

Well, people will differ. Still, I am curious whether it is your shop that is restoring/re-creating what appears to be an unoriginal '63 Impala SS at a cost of "near $100,000"?

/s/ Chris Kennedy

 

[AdvancedAutoCC]

Well, people will differ. Still, I am curious whether it is your shop that is restoring/re-creating what appears to be an unoriginal '63 Impala SS at a cost of "near $100,000"?

/s/ Chris Kennedy

Actually, the job is a collaboration of my shop and an outside body shop.
This particular car is a resto-mod/custom. The estimated price includes the body shop (separate issue from me), which is doing body-off work, including media blasting the shell (what's left of it) and replacing practically every component. As I said, the car was a basket case that was shined up. My end of things is strictly mechanical and includes a completely NEW driveline (engine, trans, differential) , complete chassis renovation (including powdercoating the frame and componenets), as well as brake upgrades, A/C installation, etc., all of which costs money... real money. Restoration is labor intensive... a typical body-off will require around 1500-2500 hours to complete. Multiply that by an average rate of $50 per hour. That doesn't include parts, which will of course bring the total up more. Definitely NOT for the faint of heart or wallet.

 

[86PACER]

Lots of overhead at a dealer...

Insurance
Rent
Employees Salery and Insurance
Training
Equipment
Boss sitting on his big fat butt
...and so on

Excatly! And YOU are the one who pays for all that and their nice big facilities. It's pretty sad since a lot of people do not even earn in a whole day's work what they charge for 1 hours labor. That is exacly why I have done 99% of the repair on my Vette myself. Everything from Head Gasket replacement to radiator flushing. I have literally saved thousands of dollars. If I took my car to a shop and paid those types of hourly labor rates with all the things that have broken or gone wrong with my Vette, I would not be able to afford having it.

Yes, some people do not have the tools, the time, or the know how to do their own work. I did not either, but I leaned anyway.

In fact, a few weeks ago, I had my uncle's car in for a Smog test. The technician told me it did not pass and it needed a new 02 Sensor at $45 plus $65 just to install it! This is a 2 minute job, as the sensor sits right in front of the engine compartment with nothing around it to make it difficult to change. I kindly informed him that there was no way it takes almost an hour to change. I had just done a complete cylinder head and valve job on this car in my driveway a few weeks ago, so I know damn well where the 02 Sensor is and how easy it is reached with a wrench. I changed it myself in 2 minutes with an open end wrench. It was as simple as removing a light bulb from a house lamp. And this guy was going to charge me a full $65.00! That is f'n highway robbery. My uncle, the owner of this car makes less than $8.00 an hour at his job. Took it back in and it passed fine. Oh and by the way, I got that same 02 Sensor they wanted to install at the local parts store for $22, not the $45 they where charging. Now tell me that not some nonesense.

I am not saying that all mechanics and shops are bad, but I am saying that there are a lot of crook SOB technicians out there who see folks that they feel know nothing about their cars and overcharge labor and/or replace parts that do not need to be replaced. I've had more than one facility try to replace an expensive part that I later tested using my GM Shop Manual at home and found to be working properly. Maybe it's my age I don't know.

 

[Jeb]

This statement in particular is what's wrong with the perception of automotive repair. Auto repair......

Well said. Thanks.

 

[Chris Kennedy]

Excatly! And YOU are the one who pays for all that and their nice big facilities. It's pretty sad since a lot of people do not even earn in a whole day's work what they charge for 1 hours labor. That is exacly why I have done 99% of the repair on my Vette myself. Everything from Head Gasket replacement to radiator flushing. I have literally saved thousands of dollars. If I took my car to a shop and paid those types of hourly labor rates with all the things that have broken or gone wrong with my Vette, I would not be able to afford having it.

Yes, some people do not have the tools, the time, or the know how to do their own work. I did not either, but I leaned anyway.

In fact, a few weeks ago, I had my uncle's car in for a Smog test. The technician told me it did not pass and it needed a new 02 Sensor at $45 plus $65 just to install it! This is a 2 minute job, as the sensor sits right in front of the engine compartment with nothing around it to make it difficult to change. I kindly informed him that there was no way it takes almost an hour to change. I had just done a complete cylinder head and valve job on this car in my driveway a few weeks ago, so I know damn well where the 02 Sensor is and how easy it is reached with a wrench. I changed it myself in 2 minutes with an open end wrench. It was as simple as removing a light bulb from a house lamp. And this guy was going to charge me a full $65.00! That is f'n highway robbery. My uncle, the owner of this car makes less than $8.00 an hour at his job. Took it back in and it passed fine. Oh and by the way, I got that same 02 Sensor they wanted to install at the local parts store for $22, not the $45 they where charging. Now tell me that not some nonesense.

I am not saying that all mechanics and shops are bad, but I am saying that there are a lot of crook SOB technicians out there who see folks that they feel know nothing about their cars and overcharge labor and/or replace parts that do not need to be replaced. I've had more than one facility try to replace an expensive part that I later tested using my GM Shop Manual at home and found to be working properly. Maybe it's my age I don't know.

There IS an incredible rush when you beat "the system" and fix your own car. Something I would also add is that anytime people begin to question or revolt against standard service/billing practices, regardless of the industry, the people who benefit most from the hithertobefore accepted (but now challenged) status quo are the ones who start bringing up arguments that quality will suffer, safety is compromised, your children will be at risk, etc etc etc. unless things continue as they are. For example, right now many real estate brokers' associations are under antitrust attack for the standard 5-6% commission rate, and their response is that this rate insures that people are getting good service, that anything else will endanger the public, cause houses to explode in flames, etc etc etc. One of the great things about the American system (unlike certain European countries which are currently experiencing no growth and 10-12% unemployment rates) is that it generally rejects these arguments, and, given the need for a change in the industry, that need is met. For example, given its tremendous success, there was obviously a need for something like E-Bay, and the fact that the defenders of the auto sales, parts and service industry status quo pre-Ebay are among Ebay's loudest detractors is to be expected. Are they telling us that deceptive practices/goods in the auto industry did not exist BEFORE Ebay? Apparently so. Do you believe THAT? Anyway, there is obviously a demand out there for a different approach to auto service and repair, and that demand will be met and quality assurred, children will be able to sleep safely at night, etc.

/s/ Chris Kennedy

 

[Edmond]

Yep, when people get sick of getting taken advantage of and kicked around, they do something about it. I think most of the people here do their own work. Of course, there are exceptions like machining work that we usually don't have the equipment at home to do.

On the contrary, I think if commission rates for real estate sellers dropped, quality would improve because people would have to work harder for their money. They would have to sell more houses and keep buyers satisfied because there is more at stake with each transaction such as their reputation.

I don't take my cars to mechanics unless it's under warranty. Your car, to them, is just a work order #. It doesn't mean anything to them.

 

[Vettelt193]

There IS an incredible rush when you beat "the system" and fix your own car. Something I would also add is that anytime people begin to question or revolt against standard service/billing practices, regardless of the industry, the people who benefit most from the hithertobefore accepted (but now challenged) status quo are the ones who start bringing up arguments that quality will suffer, safety is compromised, your children will be at risk, etc etc etc. unless things continue as they are. For example, right now many real estate brokers' associations are under antitrust attack for the standard 5-6% commission rate, and their response is that this rate insures that people are getting good service, that anything else will endanger the public, cause houses to explode in flames, etc etc etc. One of the great things about the American system (unlike certain European countries which are currently experiencing no growth and 10-12% unemployment rates) is that it generally rejects these arguments, and, given the need for a change in the industry, that need is met. For example, given its tremendous success, there was obviously a need for something like E-Bay, and the fact that the defenders of the auto sales, parts and service industry status quo pre-Ebay are among Ebay's loudest detractors is to be expected. Are they telling us that deceptive practices/goods in the auto industry did not exist BEFORE Ebay? Apparently so. Do you believe THAT? Anyway, there is obviously a demand out there for a different approach to auto service and repair, and that demand will be met and quality assurred, children will be able to sleep safely at night, etc.

/s/ Chris Kennedy

Everyone has a friend that got burned on eBay; and it is always considered fraud, etc. eBay offers protection on these things though, but no one seems to explain why they didn't persue it. If the guy with the impala got burned so bad, why wouldn't he have filed the claim with eBay instead of spending 100k on it? Give me a break. I also agree with the before/after aspect. eBay doesn't make crooks out of people, they were there before and are still there now. If anything, eBay is making it harder for crooks to sell, because they offer protection against fraud.

The real crooks are the shops that charge 100 bucks an hour to do work on cars. How long does it take to get ASE certified? 1 year, 2 years? The average college graduate (4 year degree) probably makes $40k per year, yet we pay mechanics 50-100 bucks per hour, which equals $100,000 - $200,000 per year. There aren't that many jobs, even highly technical jobs, that really pay that well. I can't think of ANY jobs that pay that well with only 2 years of education.