Doing Your Own Front End Alignment

[toobroketoretire]

perhaps nobody is interested....


if you do a search,there are already plenty of threads on front end alignments.

But none of them use my simple method. A simple method that is 100% accurate, dirt cheap, and can be done in your garage.

 

[Antz81]

But none of them use my simple method. A simple method that is 100% accurate

You still haven't shown us any proof of this. You probably never will either, because you have just enough knowledge to be dangerous and don't believe it is possible that you could be wrong.
I'm lucky I live so far away from you.

 

[dougelam]

But none of them use my simple method

It's only simple for you (you left out very dangerous)

A simple method that is 100% accurate, dirt cheap, and can be done in your garage.

Again, only as accurate as the user AND not cheap. 2 and a half hours at work pays for the cost of an alignment and I'm off to the races

Whatever ever happened to SAI?
Thrust Angle?


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[toobroketoretire]

Aligning Your Own Front End

The term "front end alignment" is a BIG misnomer because it should be called a "front end geometry restoration". Over time the rubber bushings collapse and when that happens the geometry changes. The caster angle increases and the camber angle decreases and then the tires wear really odd. The front end will shimmy when going around corners and the only cure is to get the geometry corrected back to the original specifications. With my simple home made tool and inexpensive angle finder you can measure your caster and camber angles then set them to the correct values by adding or removing shims at the upper control arms. Once you get the geometry restored you put the wheels/tires back on and set the toe in (using a tape measure). There is no need to pay someone to align your front end when you can do it yourself for a few bucks and learn something at the same time.

I have been using an angle protractor for the last 50 years because it worked good enough. But once I bought my magnetic base angle finder it got REALLY easy to do because it displays the angles in BIG easy-to-see numbers. And as I had the need for an angle finder for other projects I could justify the measly $31 expense.

 

[dougelam]

The term "front end alignment" is a BIG misnomer because it should be called a "front end geometry restoration".

The term "front end alignment" came from you, the rest of the world calls it "WHEEL ALIGNMENT"

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[toobroketoretire]

Aligning Your Own Front End

Here's an AutoCad picture I drew of a RIGHT side upper control arm that illustrates what happens when shims are added or removed and how it affects the caster and camber angles. Once you get the hang of adding or removing shims and seeing how much it affects the angles it becomes real easy. If you decide to give it a try I suggest you copy this picture and use it as a reference when you align your front end.

When you align your front end you are actually setting the caster and camber angles of ONE side at a time. I always do the left side first (as a matter of habit) and then I do the right side. Once I get both sides done I put the wheels/tires back on it and put it back onto the ground, roll it backwards about 10 feet, then forewords 10 feet, then measure the amount of toe in. A quarter turn of the tie rods will produce about 3/16" of toe in/out so when you make adjustments to the tie rods turn them about 1/4 turn at a time and be sure to turn them equal amounts.

Once you see how easy it is to do a front end alignment (geometry restoration) on your C3 you'll realize you can align any front end by merely making an appropriate tool to measure the caster angle.

 

[kpic]

Same as the ever ready bunny; he keeps going, going and going.

 

[dougelam]

It's obvious that he never aligned a C-5

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[bill81vette]

You can't make this stuff up!!!!!

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[Peer81]

Hello Toobroke,

Oke I'll bite for one last time. I don't care for no autocad drawings neither if its front end or wheel alignment. But this I do: so you connect it to the upper and lower grease zerks? Do you have the picture on the lower connection? As the upper one is straight forward a round hole but the lower one as the zerk fitting is at on angle a round hole doesn't do the job I think. Then as you're not measuring at the wheels how do you know the relation between the place you setup your tool and the wheel? Second, As I assume the grease fittings aren't level above each other how do you zero out the suspension to begin with?

Btw. I like people that try something different or look at things from another angle. But this is a forum which is here to discuss things. If you think dropping more and more lines of text is more important then going into discussion then I have more important things to do then reading ones opinions on how the world should turn!

Greetings Peter

 

[LLC5]

You can't make this stuff up!!!!!

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No you certainly can't.

C'mon toobroke, start answering the questions asked of you in these posts such as your formal training in your career, job title now, documented before and after results of your alignments, etc,.....

Hell, at least answer Peers81 post in #90.......

 

[toobroketoretire]

Hello Toobroke,

Oke I'll bite for one last time. I don't care for no autocad drawings neither if its front end or wheel alignment. But this I do: so you connect it to the upper and lower grease zerks? Do you have the picture on the lower connection? As the upper one is straight forward a round hole but the lower one as the zerk fitting is at on angle a round hole doesn't do the job I think. Then as you're not measuring at the wheels how do you know the relation between the place you setup your tool and the wheel? Second, As I assume the grease fittings aren't level above each other how do you zero out the suspension to begin with?

Btw. I like people that try something different or look at things from another angle. But this is a forum which is here to discuss things. If you think dropping more and more lines of text is more important then going into discussion then I have more important things to do then reading ones opinions on how the world should turn!

Greetings Peter

My grease zerks point up and if your grease zerks don't point up someone has put a 45 or 90 degree angle zerk in it's place. With both grease zerks pointing up the tool registers onto BOTH of them.

It very disheartening to see none of you are the least bit interested in learning anything and that's why America is falling behind the rest of the world.

 

[toobroketoretire]

It sounds like you're going through a rough time. I hope you're doing okay?

Although the guys are giving you a bit of razzing, I'm sure they're with me in wishing you a swift recovery.

Mac

Back in 1987 while painting my house I took a backward and upside down fall off a ten foot ladder. When I hit the ground upside down the impact buckled my spine between T9 and T10 and drove my face into my crotch! My spine got torn apart and my lower esophagus got ripped open (the esophagus is attached to the front of the spine). I lived in misery for the next 20 years until I finally got my herniated esophagus cauterized closed in mid 2007. My spine got fused in early 2009 and my herniated esophagus cauterized closed (again) but the hernia keeps opening and to this date I have had it repaired 14 times since 2007. I am going to have the 15th repair done at the Sansum Medical Clinic in Santa Barbara on August 16th but it will certainly fail as the other repairs have. As I'm in so much pain I have been adding new posts but not addressing each of your posts and for that I am sorry.

 

[toobroketoretire]

I don't see the calculation for the difference from hanging camber to loaded camber!

I believe the camber goes negative as the suspension travels from jounce to rebound

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"Hanging camber to loaded camber"? Huh? That's why I set my rotor onto blocks/shims to LOAD the front end and at the usual height. You really need to comprehend what I am saying and showing you in my pictures.

 

[dougelam]

It very disheartening to see none of you are the least bit interested in learning anything

THATS IT you crossed the line now buddy!!!

You start out telling us how we are doing it all wrong and you AND ONLY YOU have the correct method!
Then when questioned you repeat the same nonsense

Nome of us???
I believe all or at least most of us read your posts

Interested???
Not to many have the time, skill, facilities or ambition to follow your topics

Anything???
We all learned something, some good,some eeh and some bad

Most if not all of your posts are based on VERY old topics and you seem to forget that a lot of us were there also.

It is very disheartening that YOU are not the least bit interested in learning ANYTHING

AND YOU have not ONCE even acknowledged anyone's point of view or their experience with the related topic

If and that's a BIG if America is falling behind the rest of the world it's because of you, not us

U are living in the past and by your posts you are trying to bring us back with you!

If that isn't falling behind then I don't know what is!!!

 

[kpic]

It's obvious that he never aligned a C-5

That applies to so many things.

A bud has a 69 Cutlass S and he re-built the front end. He "aligned" it himself before he drove it to the alignment shop. Guess what, it was off.

He's converted the Cutlass to front disks, type O diff to GM corporate 10 bolt etc. A Jeep Comanche 2WD to 4WD and quite a few other interesting things. As a USNA grad, he's sharp.

 

[toobroketoretire]

Aligning Your Own Front End

This morning is the first time I have had the time (or felt good enough) to read thru all of your hateful posts regarding my alignment procedure and it saddens me to see none of you are willing to learn anything but are more willing to bash me because it makes you feel good. The point is I have been doing my own front end alignments for 50 years and my vehicles perform just as well as if they were aligned using expensive machinery. I started this thread to teach others how to align their own front ends and am delighted to see this thread has over 1200 "views" in the last 2-1/2 weeks. With that said I'll continue aligning my own front ends and you can continue paying others to do it.

 

[dougelam]

"Hanging camber to loaded camber"? Huh? That's why I set my rotor onto blocks/shims to LOAD the front end and at the usual height. You really need to comprehend what I am saying and showing you in my pictures.

Comprehend???
Is real obvious you never saw a vehicle sitting on an alignment rack.

If you place a turntable
(here is a link so you can actually see what one actually looks like) Alignment TURN-PLATES, Set of 2 - Steel, Standard Duty. Ships Free in USA. - ShopEquipmentParts.com
under one wheel (yes the wheels are still on the vehicle, that's why it's called "wheel alignment") and the other on dry pavement, both of them facing forward, bounce the side that's on the turntable and watch the slip plate move in and out.

My question is (not the he can or will answer it)
How can you ignore this movement during your alignment procedure?

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[dougelam]

Comprehend???
Is real obvious you never saw a vehicle sitting on an alignment rack.

If you place a turntable
(here is a link so you can actually see what one actually looks like) Alignment TURN-PLATES, Set of 2 - Steel, Standard Duty. Ships Free in USA. - ShopEquipmentParts.com
under one wheel (yes the wheels are still on the vehicle, that's why it's called "wheel alignment") and the other on dry pavement, both of them facing forward, bounce the side that's on the turntable and watch the slip plate move in and out.

My question is (not the he can or will answer it)
How can you ignore this movement during your alignment procedure?

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[toobroketoretire]

Aligning Your Own Front End

When you set the caster and camber angles with the wheels/tires off you don't need turn plates (duh). As my vehicles are sitting on a tall block of wood with steel shims on it the block of wood tilts in or out as shims are added or removed. You know guys, if you aren't the least bit interested in learning anything why bother replying with your senseless drivel and needlessly interrupting my thread? As I said earlier I started this thread to teach OTHERS how to align their own front ends; not you guys who know everything there is to know and don't need to be taught anything. If I can teach just one person how to align their own front end I will feel successful in my effort.

And for those of you who can't hang the tool on your lower 90 degree grease zerk I highly recommend putting a straight zerk in so you CAN hang the tool on both zerks (duh). I thought about showing you a picture of my lower straight grease zerk but I'm sure you wouldn't comprehend what you're looking at.