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Dumb Question but I don't know it!

BigRed

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Stupid question but I just finished reading a bunch of tech reports on Callaways and L98's in general and Im getting the impression that MY Standard L98 is a 2 bolt main?!? Is this true?

I always thought all Corvette blocks were 4 bolt hence the reason they are a "Corvette" block!

Now is the L98 Block worth dumping LOADS of money into? Or is it better to just change it out like Ken did. I don't want a big block I'd like a 350 stroked to 383 then all the power stuffs coming from the intake and ignition.

Ive been reading Jegs catalog and Im seeing the ZZ4 and the 385 Fastburn as choices but they want WAY to much money (Also considering I just want the damn block) Im putting all my own Lunati,Crane,Edelbrock and TPiS parts into it.
 

69MyWay

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Yep, it is at 2 bolt main.

It is usually more than strong enough for street use.

Ken's car is awesome. Went for a ride yesterday.
 

Edmond

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BigRed said:
Now is the L98 Block worth dumping LOADS of money into? Or is it better to just change it out like Ken did. I don't want a big block I'd like a 350 stroked to 383 then all the power stuffs coming from the intake and ignition.


I've asked myself that question about the L98. It's a great engine with very nice torque, but the HP leaves more to be desired. Figure that a nice L98 would run you roughly $8,500-9,500?

What would be the mods that you would do?
Mini-ram?
Bolt ons?
Roller rockers?
Electrical stuff?

How much would all that cost? If you did any significant mods, it would end up costing you thousands. Add a few grand to the cost of the car and you're close to LT4 territory.
 
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But remember, that's if you're doing it all at once and have the CASH to do it all at once. My project will take several years to lessen the financial strain. The L98 seems like a great starting point because it's cheap, reasonably easy to maintain, and there are still tons of performance add-on's out there.
[RICHR]
 

Edmond

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Rich,

That is a good point about the L98, they aren't that expensive to buy and are pretty easy to take care of. Even I could take care of mine pretty well! LOL.

Doesn't Lingenfelter make a mini-ram type of gizmo as well? The TPIS mini-ram isn't cheap, it's like $900 or so. They claim a 90+HP gain, but I'm not totally convinced of that.

The L98 has a pretty restrictive exhaust right? So one would have to do:

heads
headers
high flow cat
high performance cat back

To do the whole exhaust right. Am I thinking right?
 
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I haven't looked at Lingenfelter's intakes yet, but the TPIS one also *requires* their fuel lines (for about $300 more) and if you want to take full advantage then you need their stage 4 chip - at another $400.

IMHO, the headers are decent on the L98 (they're not equal length, but they're still considered shorty/performance headers). I'd do a high-flow cat and a full catback (looking at Power Effects - easy to install, looks good, and is sound-adjustable).

Heads? Port and polish?

Definitely get roller rocker arms. Get the full rollers if you don't mind replacing valve covers (aftermarket ones are cheap if that's OK). But even my roller tips make a difference.
[RICHR]
 

BigRed

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1985 Bright Red Rocket
Yes I'll be doing this all at once. The engine will come out and the engine will go back in.

I'll do it after the car's paid off or if my business jumps by leaps and bounds. I figure 2-3 years.

What ive chosen is

TPiS MiniRam
Holley 58mm Throttle Body w/ Airfoil
30# Injectors
MSD Digital 8 Ignition
MSD Billet distributor (Complete)
MSD Coil and Wires (High Voltage pick of the day)
TPiS headers
Edelbrock Performer (Aluminum) Heads
Crane Roller Rockers
SLP Pistons
Lunati Cam (Learning the duration type I want)
Lunati Crank
Lunati Connecting rods
(Not sure which push rods or lifters) <--Still learning that part of the engine
Moroso Pan
Custom PROM
383 Stroke work done on the block (Which Im still choosing) the parts above will be sized the the 383 style as well.


I don't want NOS period

3:73 Gears
(Way later-->) Richmond 6 speed

thats my plan for my car if anyone wants to chime in about what Im missing or specifics about the cams or anything else that'd be great.


:beer
 

Edmond

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BigRed,

I read that you have to also buy TPIS's fuel rails for their mini-ram as well. Whats up with that? They say their mini-ram gives you 90+ horses, any truth to that?
 

BigRed

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Ya I know about the rail.. Good! I kind of wanted to keep the L98 in tact anyway for a Hot Rod my Dad and I are planning.

Chris (69myWay) has the Miniram in his car and he says its a "Whole new Demon" or something LOL

The MiniRam is a AWSOME mod and for the price? Im doing it for sure.
 
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none right now :(
You have to realize HP is a calculation... when you think of HP, you should think, the ability to make torque at a certain RPM... what this means is, if you can raise your peak torque RPM (not peak torque!, just what RPM it happens to occur) you can get more HP... this is because RPM is the multiplier... this also means you can also REDUCE TORQUE, but INCREASE RPM, and INCREASE HP... depending on the numbers... the formula for HP is

HP = Torque x RPM / 5252

imagine this... you have two engines, each rated at 100 lb ft. of torque... only one is rated 100 lb ft @ 1000 rpm, the other rated at 10,000 RPM...

the one at 1000 rpm only has about 19 HP
the one at 10000 rpm has about 190 hp...

it is all a numbers game... car manufacturers play it all the time... Ford is really good at it, and they did a good job when they changed from the 5.0 to the 4.6... I think the 4.6 was only rated at 10 less HP, but the failed to mention the torque... they just raved about how great the gas mileage was, and how they only lost 10 hp... watch a 5.0 Vs. a 4.6 and have a good laugh about those 10 HP!

Anyway, this is how the mini ram makes such a big HP increase, it shifts your power range up to higher RPM's
 

BigRed

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Torque

Gotcha but witht he other mods I think the torque will increase just a "little" :t

Now I was looking today at the "T" bone setup. Instead of using a timing chain there is this piece with 2 gears on it shaped like bone! Whats the pros and cons on this thing? Can I get a higher redline due to less vibration? (Such as a Timing Belt conversion)

Also Im trying to plan a cooling system. The Be Cool seems to be a no brainer but how do I get this beast to run COLD. Im tired of this L98 and its over heating problem.

Im going to post another thread about the Stalker front end from Mid America. I like the style and I might be able to get more air flow for the rad and for the intake.
 

Edmond

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This old school mechanic was telling me one time about the Vette' and how one of it's "problems" or I should use the term disadvantages because it's a better description is that Vette's get their air from underneath the car and that it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that if a car get's it's air from a conventional "grill" it would get more air. Is he right?
 

BigRed

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Thats what im thinking. Spoliers grab air at speed so at speed the cars is fine but stop and go city traffic? I think the Rad would appreciate being out of a easy bake oven ya know?

But then you look at how many years C4's went on for and the design of the C5 and it seems to be working fine! I just know my car is HOT man like 236 oil and 230 coolant when its HOT outside and Im stop and go in the city core. Im also going to upgrade to a dual electric fan and the front fan will not be on a relay but solid on.

(Can we tell Im worried about overheating? ROFL)
 

Edmond

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BigRed,

I looked at the Be Cool Rad's as well, but for almost 3 1/2 big ones, I don't have the heart or the money for it, LOL.

As for you being concerned about overheating, I think we're all concerned with that. I'm concerned but not as much as you because I do absolutely no city driving.

I think I saw something before with the side "gills" where they can expell more hot air from the engine bay. Ever see anything like that?
 

WhalePirot

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1984 White Z-51/ZF6-40/Shinoda body
Been there.........

Just finishing. The biggest issue turns out to be the chip. Just try and find someone who can REALLY do a custom chip, for YOUR engine in YOUR car. Mail order will not cut it, unless you're REAL lucky. The best way is on a variable load dyno, which very few shops have. Just as rare is a guy who can program the chip. All the rest matters not, if the ECM cannot run it. I am running a '90 Camaro box, in the stock location. Next time, I'd seriously look at the 'smart', fully programmable and adjustable digital boxes for engine management.

I paid under $4800 for my 406. Add on the new computer, wiring harness, exhaust system, intake, all the peripherals, like rebuilding the tranny. O/D, master cylinder, the calipers etc. and I'm a shade over $15k. (You see, I wanted to be able to stop as well, plus dared not put all that power through the 105k driveline.) I did the dis/re-assembly myself over 2+ years. The car looks new inside and out, and appears almost a stocker '84

The car goes like stink! The 0-60 numbers rival and may beat the Z06. It runs 92 octane and purrs hoarsely. Step on it and the TPIS exhaust makes everyone sit up and pay attention. Thanks to Gary Leonhardt, I no longer send messages to Tonto from my tailpipes. He worked long and hard to fix my 'custom' chip, from another expert. It ran VERRRRRRRRY rich, except at WOT.

I like the idea of the TPIS fuel rail, with the access it affords to other injection system parts without tearing everything down. The exact opposite is true of the Lingenfelter/Accel intake, which made the mistake of buying. I had to beg for enough bolts to assemble the damn thing, too. At least their instructions and customer service suck! I like the expertise, customer support and lack of BS at TPIS.

If you get the Ling, buy a HUGE tube of RTV black to seal the damn thing. Use it ALL! Expect to pay major dollars, too, or spend many, many hours trying to assemble it, probably more than once, using every 12 point, 1/4" wrench you can imagine, in very tight quarters. Torque the nuts? You've GOT to be kidding! I was lucky to get all the bolts in this thing! Mechanics hate it, but love to cash the huge check you'll write if you need to get to any injector or other component under the plenum. Get the hint? I like the TPIS, but a pal has great results with the stock plenum, Arizona Speed and Marine runners and the Ling manifold. If only I'd listened MORE closely to what he said!!

Make sure you talk with an experienced engine shop, too. Don't just throw name part$ at it. Some make sense for the street; some don't. A balance approach, with a specific goal in mind, will yield the greatest satisfaction.

Cold air? Who needs it? Gary's been around this biz for many years and the clubbers know he won't waste their money on stuff that promises, but don't deliver. He says the difference in intake temperature, betwen my conical K&N behind the radiator and a 'ram air', from the front bumper, will make little difference to my engine. Ram air? Ha! Above 90, maybe.

The car runs cool with a clean, stock radiator and water pump, but I need more miles to prove it, long term. An easy change later, if need be.

I would use ceramic coated headers to get as much heat as possible out from under the hood and into the exhaust where it can work FOR you. Cats don't run well, cold. Hell, I'd use a LOT more ceramics.

:w
 

Tom73

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73 LS4 Coupe - 04 CE Conv
BigRed said:
I always thought all Corvette blocks were 4 bolt hence the reason they are a "Corvette" block!
Chevy did not have a 4-bolt block before '69. ALL of the high performance 283 and 327 engines were all 2-bolt blocks. Nothing wrong with two bolts. But any good machine shop can upgrade it to 4-bolt mains for you. Very easy to do.

tom...
 

BigRed

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1985 Bright Red Rocket
For the time and money Tom I might as well save the L98 as a complete unit. I mean it running good but not enough gogo for me. When its go time I'll pull the L98 and save it.

I mean how much is a empty block! Not worth the Mod IMO

Whale, thats good information to know. =Jeff= has proven himself to me that he's one of those guys who knows how to burn these PROMS. My ECM runs at 400 Baud and the one Im buying off him (As soon as my account stablizes from the wedding) is off a 89 Corvette with 4000 Baud rate (Am I saying that right?)

With that ECM installed Im going to run the Thermo 160 Chip and thermostat for a temporary measure. Once I drop in this new engine I'll have Jeff (If hes still around I hope) work with me to burn a new chip and I'll stich the Thermo in with the L98 package Im pulling.

(Won't be bad for a lil deuce coupe)

BTW thanks alot guys Im writing as fast as I can type to record this information so I don't spend money BLINDFOLDED like I did last year.

9000 Dollars and please don't make me say what it actually did. (Im shaking still from the thought)

Now just from the Jegs catalog they have a 4 bolt main 350 from GM. Called the ZZ4 HO Short block. Now can I 383 that bad boy? Or for the 2000 they're asking do I really need to grind risking a water jacket hit?

All Im after is to beat the ZR1 or a Z06 (Hard dream to live up to)

Edmond, I hope you don't mean 3500! for the Rad! Jeez LOL 350 is no problem to put my mind at ease. They're claiming 10-15 degrees coolers and Ive actually heard that claim is for real.

Can someone help me understand lifters and cam duration and cam types? I have no Idea what Im supposed to buy Compucams.Roller Cams or Hydraulic lifters,Mechanical lifters.Solid Lifters. Do I even have to worry about lifters?! LOL

I want the car to run SMOOTH not like a 426 Hemi with headers but Im wouldn't mind the whole "front tires off the ground thing" LOL

I don't want to run a supercharger (BTW that Paxtons shot) if I don't have to. And NOS is WAY to scary and deep into uncharted territory for me. Id like the thing to be reliable as well as fast.
 

Jack

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/bigred ... Now just from the Jegs catalog they have a 4 bolt main 350 from GM. Called the ZZ4 HO Short block. Now can I 383 that bad boy? Or for the 2000 they're asking do I really need to grind risking a water jacket hit?---Id like the thing to be reliable as well as fast.

Bigred:
Hell-bent for a 383? Take a look at GM Performance Parts' factory sbc crate known as HT383 (GM as in Chevy). 4-bolt main, forged 3.8" stroke crank, 4" bore, roller cam, 9.1:1 CR (great for street & pump gas) ... under $4000 complete less carb & dist ... with GM warranty ... PN 12497317. Also, HT383 short block available from GM. Also take a look at link below to Hot Rod Mag's six-step buildup of an HT383.

http://www.hotrod.com/editorial/article.jsp?viewtype=text&id=66278
JACK:gap
 

Edmond

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2003 Z06
BigRed,

When you make as little as me, $350 is 3 1/2 big ones! LOL!

I have also contacted Jeff about the PROM and I'm excited about what it can do better than the stock one!
 

BigRed

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1985 Bright Red Rocket
JACK YOU DA MAN!!!

A 383 with GM's warranty attached AWSOME buddy!

And for it being near complete I won't have to worry about internal engine guts. As for the heads oh well Edelbrocks can wait. So I wonder if TPiS's Miniram will attach to this engine (Heads port shape)?

So if I put all Lunati stuff in Im not going to gain "Substaintial" gains. (Good thing less work)

Now the question is will this "350" bolt up to my mounts and bell housing? Im probably going have to run a Scatter shield so do they make one for the C4 housing? And will my CDF clutch fit? (Ive heard the CDF clutch is a little larger than normal because of the second set of keys.

The article does suggest add ons are neccesary for the performance I want but they seem to be minor in comparison to what I had planned before. Not to mention my wallet just got heavier, I think with quick head math you just saved me 3000 Bucks.

I have seen 383 engines from local engine shops but

1) I have to supply the block
2) The warranty is similar to a screwy used car lot

But they do come with the heads I want, Big deal considering the block is used.
 

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