Early ZR1, LPE modded L98, or new engine...

[Nicholas_Bostaph]

Hi guys,

I've been hanging around reading for the past few days since I found the site through Google. Lots of good info here and everyone seems real cool. I don't own a 'Vette right now, but I'm looking at picking one up in another year or two here, and was wandering what you guys thought as far as what I should get. I figure I should be prepared in advance. I want one with the older C4 styling (84-90), but I also want the old LCD instruments (which I think were replaced in 90), and I want the car to be reliable. So I was thinking my target range would be 87-89 here. I'd like my total cost to be somewhere low $30s , including the $7k-$10k in mods I'm doing to the body.

I want the car to be fast...really fast. I currently own a 2002 Firehawk which I've heard should put down somewhere around 310 rwhp and around 310 rwtq and do the 1/4 in the low 13s. It's not fast enough for me though . I'd like to get my 1/4 times well into 11 seconds. Though what's really important to me is low end torque. I just want power that I can feel off the line. I couldn't care less what my car can do at 100 mph...I'll never be there. It will be a "daily driver", though I don't know what people mean when they say certain mods are not for a daily driver...I can't imagine anything I could legally do to the car that would make it any less fun to drive day to day. Is saying that kind of thing just an opinion, or will some of these mods make the car totally unstreatable? Anyway, I came up with 3 basic options, but since I'm completely inept when it comes to car mechanics, I need some advice .



My first thought was to pick up a stock L98, which should be a great start with all that low end torque. I'll be looking for one with around 25k-35k miles so I should get out around $16k-$18k (I hope). Assuming I then have $5k-$10k left for mods, I figured the best course of action (considering my knowledge of cars) would be to send the car off to Lingenfelter and see what they can do with it. Thoughts? I worry that for the low amount of money I have to spend, I won't get much from LPE. Most of the decent packages I saw on the site cost upwords of $30k, though I didn't see anything for a L98.

The second thought I had was to just look for a ZR1. Considering the years I'm looking at, I'll be stuck with the 375 hp model, right? If I went with this option, I'd probably get a 91 or 92 to get the 405 hp model and just replace the dash cluster myself (I think all the other mods I'm looking at will work with the new body style). In this situation, I'd have very little left for mods, though, as most ZR1s I see are in the $25k range. How will the ZR1 run? I've heard they're reliable...but after 15 years? Would it be faster than an L98 with around $8k in mods? Would it be more reliable?

The other option I considered was just picking up an 84 or 85 high milage C4 for maybe $12k, and just dropping a new engine in...but this is an area I'm completely clueless in. Is this even a viable option? Good or bad?



Yeah, I know it seems like a lot to spend considering the car I'm getting, but it's been my dream car since I was 16. Any help/advice you can offer, along with any thoughts you might have for other options, would be great. Thanks for reading .

~Nicholas

 

[-=Jeff=-]

The second thought I had was to just look for a ZR1. Considering the years I'm looking at, I'll be stuck with the 375 hp model, right? If I went with this option, I'd probably get a 91 or 92 to get the 405 hp model and just replace the dash cluster myself

Replace the Dash Cluster with the older 89 style?

Not worth it.. to be honest. I think if you had an L98 with 8K in motor work it better beat a ZR-1.. my 89 vette with about $3000 in the motor will match a stock ZR-1 in the 1/4

 

[Nicholas_Bostaph]

Re: Re: Early ZR1, LPE modded L98, or new engine...

Replace the Dash Cluster with the older 89 style?

Not worth it.. to be honest. I think if you had an L98 with 8K in motor work it better beat a ZR-1.. my 89 vette with about $3000 in the motor will match a stock ZR-1 in the 1/4

One of my favorite things about the C4s (and the thing that made me first consider buying one) was the old dash cluster. I know that they are supposed to be unreliable comparitively, but it's a compromise I'm willing to make . I don't know why they had to change them rather than just making them more reliable .

That's surprising you can take a ZR1. As you've probably already picked up, cars aren't my strong point...but I'm learning! I thought the ZR-1 was this absolutely amazing beast that was nearly untouchable. Do I have an exagerrated view there?

Thanks for the response

 

[94c4lt1]

Hi guys,
The second thought I had was to just look for a ZR1. Considering the years I'm looking at, I'll be stuck with the 375 hp model, right? If I went with this option, I'd probably get a 91 or 92 to get the 405 hp model and just replace the dash cluster myself (I think all the other mods I'm looking at will work with the new body style). In this situation, I'd have very little left for mods, though, as most ZR1s I see are in the $25k range. How will the ZR1 run? I've heard they're reliable...but after 15 years? Would it be faster than an L98 with around $8k in mods? Would it be more reliable?

The ZR1 was 405 horsepower in the years 93-95 only. Those years will run you about $30k-$45K. So that is probably out of the question. However you L98 with $10K in mods should smoke a ZR1 in the 1/4 mi (up top would be hard to say depending on the mods, but you said you didn't care about 100mph+).

Why not supercharge the L98? With $10k you should be able to get it installed and dyno tuned and everything. Just a suggestion.

Other options are to bore and stroke the engine and use an aggressive cam, bored and honed cyclinder heads, intake, and TB.

$10K can get you a lot.

Last option is you could give the money to me and I can give you a ride in my newly modified vette. (JUST KIDDING)

Make sure you research all your options. I would start by asking around people what they have in the L98 C4s and what times they are running; ask them how much it cost to get them up there.

Most people are happy to help.

Let me know if you have any more questions, I will try to help where I can.

GOOD LUCK!

 

[Nicholas_Bostaph]

94c4lt1, thanks for the suggestions. I had considered supercharging, but I heard that kills the reliability of your engine. Either way, the more boost you run the more it's going to strain the engine...and with the amount of power I'm looking to put out, I'm thinking it'll tear my engine apart. What do you think?

As far as the second option you listed, I've heard a lot of people talk about doing that kind of thing but honestly have no clue what it means. You don't happen to know of an online resource you could point me to that would explain it for me, do you?

Thanks...

 

[Wegone]

The ZR-1 was never intended to be a ¼ mile runner. It was built to run wide open at speeds of over 150mph all day …But with the right mods it is very fast in the ¼.

 

[-=Jeff=-]

The ZR-1 was never intended to be a ¼ mile runner. It was built to run wide open at speeds of over 150mph all day …But with the right mods it is very fast in the ¼.

I totally agree with you Wegone!!

Nicholas,

Swapping to the older dash fromt he newer dash will be a nightmare.. trust me. I did the opposite, I swapped the the digital dash for that of the 1990-later cars.. going about it the way I did was easier then doing what you would want to do, Especially with a ZR-1. there is way too much involed..

I think since you want the LCD digital Dash.. buy an 89 Vette and go nuts on the motor.. if not Supercharged why not a Turbo?

 

[JT ZR-Won]

Something to consider..........you can pick up nice looking ZR-1's nowadays for $17K-$19K in the 60K-80K mileage dept. These cars are stil very strong. I know someone with 100K on the ticker and his ZR still dynoes higher than mine with 29K.

If you get one for.....say $18K and dump $10K into it, you will have an upper 11 sec ZR-1 no problem. Just a few bolt on's and drag radials will put you mid to low 12's

Jay

 

[Vettelt193]

How about a Callway twin turbo... old dash, TONS of low end torque, and going for good deals right now

 

[Nicholas_Bostaph]

How about a Callway twin turbo... old dash, TONS of low end torque, and going for good deals right now

Now there's a thought that never entered my mind. Granted, I know very little about them, but aren't they going to be more in the $40k+ price range? Either way, they must be almost impossible to find. I've been keeping an eye on the auto trader for anything within 50 miles and never saw one of those creep up. Don't happen to know of one for sale, do you?

Thanks for all the replies everyone...I appreciate the insight

 

[69MyWay]

Here is your solution.

Buy a 1984-1989 high mileage car for $4,500 to $7,500

Go straight to G.M. and buy the Ram Jet 510 hp 502 EFI crate motor. Go to March Performance Pulleys for your accesories. Get some block hugger headers, and 3" stainless exhaust with borla mufflers. (This set of mods will set you back about $15,000)

Get a sweet cowl/bubled up hood scoop to cover the massive engine.


Now, paint it any color you want, put any rims you want, restore the interior anyway you want, and roast ANYTHING that you meet at the next red light.

 

[Vettelt193]

I am guessing you will have to travel more than 50 miles, but check out www.callawaycars.com in the preowned section... the early callaways should not be near 40k The newer ones (90-91) (especially with the aerobody) could pull that kind of money though. Check out the callaway forum, some pop up for sale there, as well as ebay... i see a few on there as well... it may take a bit more time to find one, but man, they are worth it... The horsepower figures on Callaway TT's don't look so good, but Torque... WOW! tons and tons of torque

 

[Nicholas_Bostaph]

69MyWay, that's a neat idea. However, I've never seen a C4 under $12k (even hi milage ones) unless the paint is totally beat on. Besides, I have a very specific hood I want installed and, unfortunately, it doesn't have any more room under it than the stock hood. Sounds like an idea to build off of though .


Vettelt193, thanks for the info. From what I saw all the TTs were manuals though and I'd need an automatic . I saw the torque numbers and they did look good, but I couldn't figure out why they were only doing 0-60 in 5 seconds (from stuff I found on the web). That's not really any faster than my hawk. Are they really that great for some reason?

Thanks...

 

[69MyWay]

69MyWay, that's a neat idea. However, I've never seen a C4 under $12k (even hi milage ones) unless the paint is totally beat on. Besides, I have a very specific hood I want installed and, unfortunately, it doesn't have any more room under it than the stock hood. Sounds like an idea to build off of though .



Thanks...

You are not looking hard enough. I have offered before, and will still sell my freaky 1990 (wrong dash for you) six speed polo green coupe for WELL under $12K, and it should run with the ZR1s and Z06 Vettes all day long.

There are plenty of them out there.

 

[Vettelt193]

I think the 0-60 isn't so good because you can't get them to hook up very well, because they have so much power... I can tell you I have seen a callaway TT run a Viper in the 1/4 mile.... the TT stalled off the line by accident, but managed to re-start, get going, and still beat the Viper... They are very fast cars, although the numbers don't seem to favor them well, the real world does.... This is why I like to call them real-world cars. they have power you can really use... I would try to get a test drive in one... you will probably be blown away by the power.... you may also try writing in the callaway forum and ask owners about their cars.

 

[Nicholas_Bostaph]

You are not looking hard enough. I have offered before, and will still sell my freaky 1990 (wrong dash for you) six speed polo green coupe for WELL under $12K, and it should run with the ZR1s and Z06 Vettes all day long.

There are plenty of them out there.

I'm looking hard enough, just apparently in the wrong places . Do you have any suggestions for where I should keep an eye out? Then again, I may just have too high expectations for the paint quality (I'm extremely meticulous).

 

[Vettelt193]

You are not looking hard enough. I have offered before, and will still sell my freaky 1990 (wrong dash for you) six speed polo green coupe for WELL under $12K, and it should run with the ZR1s and Z06 Vettes all day long.

There are plenty of them out there.

how much under 12k, and how many miles?

 

[Nicholas_Bostaph]

I think the 0-60 isn't so good because you can't get them to hook up very well, because they have so much power... I can tell you I have seen a callaway TT run a Viper in the 1/4 mile.... the TT stalled off the line by accident, but managed to re-start, get going, and still beat the Viper... They are very fast cars, although the numbers don't seem to favor them well, the real world does.... This is why I like to call them real-world cars. they have power you can really use... I would try to get a test drive in one... you will probably be blown away by the power.... you may also try writing in the callaway forum and ask owners about their cars.

Thanks, I'll take your suggestion and try one out if I get to the point that I think I could be happy with a stick. It would just be hard in rush hour traffic . Definitely worth a look though.

 

[Vettelt193]

oh, and they do make callaways in automatic form... you just have to keep your eyes open... Many owners of super-cars won't get autos, so it may be a bit harder to find

 

[69MyWay]

how much under 12k, and how many miles?

Let's see. The odometer reads a tad over 150 K.

The engine has around 5,000 and four passes at the 1/4 track
The clutch has zero miles
The new shocks, rear spring, bushings, all four wheel bearings, hydraulic brake lines, etc. etc. have zero miles
The paint looks near perfect
The interior is a 8 out of 10, 10 being perfect
The engine is sporting the Edelbrock RPM head, Crane roller cam, roller rockers, TPIS mini ram 52mm TB, Headman headers, heated O2, new cooling fans, new radiator, new a/c lines, new belt, mostly new hoses, new headlight motors, new SO2 tires, chrome rims, keyless entry, all new U joints, lowering kit, alternater, battery, new radiator (one year ago), new climate control head (one year ago). 10 disc changer, 200 watt amp, and 10" MTX sub.......my fingers are getting tired.

I am just wrapping up $2,500 in new suspension and the 3.75 rear gear conversion....I hope to drop it on all fours this weekend, then put it in long term storage (or sell it) while I work on my buddies 71.

So, does the 150K miles matter? Who knows. Really just the basic body and trans have the mileage, virtually everything else is new or rebuilt in less than 5,000 miles. I am thinking I would let it go for $10,500 AND throw in the bone stock complete L98 that came out of it (numbers matching block). This is always subject to change based upon my mood!