Help - service trouble with dealer

[mick_s3]

I hope someone can give me a reality check here.

I recently bought a used '97 coupe with 55k on it from a local dealer. I have had the car for 2 months and the car has run fine. The dealer screwed up on a few detailsstuff during the transaction which is another story that will spare you the details of, but let's just say that I am not thrilled by their professionalism.

On to my problem:

The check engine light came on Friday and I made an appointment to have it looked at , at the dealer I bought it from.

Well they told me that an 02 sensor is bad and it would cost me $320, as it was not covered under the warranty I purchased with the car.

I am not happy about this and called and spoke with the manager and he said he would cut me a deal and split the bill. Great.

Then I get a call from the service rep saying that when his mechanic was "test driving" the car the coolant light came on (??) and that when he got back he saw that it was leaking coolant. This car has not leaked a drop of anything in the 2+ months since I have had it. So ......

1) Did the joker twist it up and fry the water pump bearing while test dogging, err test driving it?

2) Is it just back luck/coincidence that after I called and complained that it broke.

3) Are these guys trying to rip me off and or damage my car because I called and complained?

Before I took it to the dealer I got the codes out of the computer and there was one H code referring to Airbank #2, I have them written down at home if that would help.

Is there any way that I can take it and get the data from the "test drive" out of the computer??

The service rep said that the water pumps don't just break all at once and that it must have been leaking before I brought it in. I am 100% positive it has never leaked.


Any thoughts on this would be appreciated....

Thanks,


Mick in Tampa

 

[warren s]

The computer does not record data from specific rides in the detail you are looking for, such as how the car was driven at a specific time. Only if a code was set and when, but that does not indicate if the car was being "abused".

All the water pumps I had in various cars that went never just failed, usually the bearing in the pump goes and it starts to leak through the weep hole while under pressure.

Though I am not a fan of dealer service, usually calling in a complaint is no big deal, they have bigger fish to fry. and if they wernt hosing you in the first place I doubt they would have cut you a deal anyway.

 

[LEEJANDZ]

Working at a TOYOTA dealership in sales, I know how frustrated customers can get with the service dept. I advise you to speak to the service manager directly about how your car was handled. At TOYOTA we dont normally "test drive" a car unless it is warranted. In your case they have the diagnostic equipment to check what is wrong with your car without driving it. I do know that there have been a few SUPRA turbos driven off of my lot while in the service dept. without the owners knowledge. If you dont reach a pleasant end with the service manager, speak to the general manager of the dealership.

If neither is of any help, register a complaint with the BBB and tell the general manager. If his dealership doesnt qualify for the manufacturer bonuses, his pay is effictively reduced.

Contact me if you need any more help.

--------------------------

JASON

1979 L-82

 

[Stan The Man]

Hi Mick

It is always a problem when you start off on the wrong foot in any relationship as it tends to make you more wary of everything that happens.

If the dealer only changed the O2 Sensor the coolant system would not normally be involved and it would be bad business to create a problem.

By posting all the detail of all your codes here it will help our more knowledgeable members to advise if there was anything pointing to cooling problems at the time you recorded them.

Running a search on ‘water pump’ produced very few threads, even less with actual water pump problems. You have to draw your own conclusions but being able to do anything positive about it is another story.

Hope you get it sorted, best regards,

 

[offshore]

warren5 may be WRONG your car might have what is called a "LAST EVENT RECORDER" this is a VERY controversal item most people don't even know they have them the cops have to get a search warant to retrive them from your car but if you were doing 60 mph in a 35 this black box will tell them it will also tell acceleration point brake point ect. it is a nasty black box in "ALL" late model gm cars. Congress is trying to figure out if it's legal (year 3000) But these last event recorder are in" EVERY" late model gm!!!! They have puy many people in jail! Now that you know that, I don't know how long the memory is. and now that my blood is boiling about these black boxes I forget your ?

 

[mick_s3]

10 PCM P1416H AIR SYSTEM BANK2-B
P1571H DESIRED TORQUE-C

60 - IPC B1542H
B0516H
B0521H
U1160H

A0 B2282H
B2284H
(the same 2 code were there for the right door)

28- TCS : NO CODES
38 - RTD : NO COMM.
40 - BCM : NO CODES
80 - RADIO: NO CODES
99 - HVAC : NO COMM.
A6 - SCM : NO COMM.
B0 - RFA : NO CODES.

The car had a new battery when I looked at it, I assummed (wrongly maybe) that the electrical codes were a result of the battery going dead or when the battery was disconnected to be replaced.

I swung by there this evening and spoke to the salesman that I bought it from and explained my concerns and told him to make sure that they do not delete any of the codes from the computer.

The sales tech told me a light came on, I was under the impression that if the system throws a light that it captures a "snapshot" of what was going on, and that you must have a probe that connects to the pinout under the dash to get the data.

Thanks for all the replies, I appreciate it and will keep you posted.

Mick

 

[offshore]

Note if your car has a LER and I think yours does. If you want it out you can tell the dealer to yank that BIG BROTHER PIECE OF ****. AND HE HAS TO!!!!!!!!!!

 

[warren s]

warren5 may be WRONG your car might have what is called a "LAST EVENT RECORDER" this is a VERY controversal item most people don't even know they have them the cops have to get a search warant to retrive them from your car but if you were doing 60 mph in a 35 this black box will tell them it will also tell acceleration point brake point ect. it is a nasty black box in "ALL" late model gm cars. Congress is trying to figure out if it's legal (year 3000) But these last event recorder are in" EVERY" late model gm!!!! They have puy many people in jail! Now that you know that, I don't know how long the memory is. and now that my blood is boiling about these black boxes I forget your ?


Stan The Man Hi Mick


Actually the black box (it really is silver) only retains memory for a short time of events, such as when the air bag is deployed. If no trigger events happen it just keeps "writing" over old data.

Or else, you would need a trememdous storage area for the data as it would record all the time the car was running.

 

[offshore]

all black boxes only record over a short time> and none are black but it does not need any air bag or special event to record! it recordes all the time for a specific amount of time then rerights. how long this time is I don't know. who cares? "the cops" PS. my ex, wifes room mate just had the charge of vech,homicide upgraded to mamslauter from the black box! I'm not making any excuse for her (I hate her) but the box showed 25 mph over!

 

[warren s]

The box will record a few minutes worth of data and then write over again, it also records when the car is not moving, such as how long the check engine light is on for. The box cant know where the car is, who is driving and what is happening outside the car, so its information is almost impossible to use as a way to hang the driver. In a smash it will record the position of the steering wheel and the throttle, speed and RPM.

Most people who feel this is a threat dont even realize that the basic computer in many cars from the mid 90s do the same thing without a separate "box".

I would say about 90% of the cars built these days "remember" the parameters of an air-bag deployment, as the computer is what runs the system.

Its all a drop in the bucket compared to things like On-Star. Wait until some hacker breaks into that system and starts to shut down cars with On-Star or similar systems.

 

[c4c5specialist]

Hi there,
First, the 1416 is your clue there. This is for a secondary air injection check valve on the drivers side of the engine. This takes about 3 hours to replace, and is located behind the intake manifold. It will not dreate any drivability concerns, but will affect cold start exhaust emissions. The valve is about $25.
The 1571 is classified as normal on the 97 model year, as long as it has an H following it.
As far as the water pump, I cannot comment, because I dont know what happen.
As for the BLACK BOX THEORY, please reference my next post.
Allthebest, c4c5

 

[c4c5specialist]

Black box for air bags.

Hi there,
The BLACK BOX that so many people speak of, simply records crash data in the event of an accident.
Theory abounds as to what is recorded, here is exactly what is recorded when an air bag deployment is reached.

8 Digit GM Part Number
The scan tool displays an 8 digit part number. This number is the GM part number that is stored within the SDM memory.

Active Switch
The scan tool displays Enabled/Disabled. The signal from the SDM indicates whether the inflatable restraint IP module switch is in the ON or OFF position.

Calibration ID
The scan tool displays a 4 digit number. This calibration ID is the check sum of the SDM read only memory contents.

Component Serial #8-12
The scan tool displays digits 8 through 12 of the SDM serial number.

Component Serial #13-18
The scan tool displays digits 13 through 18 of the SDM serial number.

Driver Frontal Loop
The scan tool displays Enabled/Disabled. The signal from the SDM indicates whether the driver frontal loop is enabled or disabled.

Driver Side Belt Status
The scan tool displays Buckled or Unbuckled. The signal from the drivers seat belt switch indicates whether the driver seat is buckled or unbuckled.

Ignition Voltage
The scan tool displays 0-20 volts. The Ignition represents the system voltage measured by the SDM at its ignition feed.

Julian Date of Build
The scan tool displays a 3 digit number. An example would be 723. 723 is July 23 which is day 204 based on the Julian Calendar.

Passenger Frontal Loop
The scan tool displays Enabled/Disabled. The signal from the SDM indicates whether the passenger frontal loop is enabled or disabled.

Passenger Side Belt Status
The scan tool displays Buckled or Unbuckled. The signal from the passengers seat belt switch indicates whether the passenger seat is buckled or unbuckled.

PROM ID
The scan tool displays a 4 digit number. This number is the programmable read-only memory (PROM) ID.

Year Module Built
The scan tool displays what year the module was built.

Nowhere in the airbag system, does it have the ability to record vehicle speed when an impact occurs. This is because the Corvette does NOT have dual stage airbags.

Theory about vehicle speed, lateral acceleration and the like is all dependant of IF a code sets at the time of the event. When codes are set in either the PCM or the TCS system, the record function is called 'freeze frame failure'. This records the 15 second prior to the failure, and 15 seconds after, to assist service mechanics, like me to find the cause and duplicate the failure. However, this is in the traction control system, or the powertrain control module, and does NOT happen when air bags deploy on Corvette.
There have been numerous attempts by where people claim that the 'black box' has buried them in court, or the like. Fact of the matter is, that in the Corvette vehicle, it does not occur and there are other reasons.
Allthebest, c4c5

 

[mick_s3]

Thanks for the info c4c5 I do appreciate it.

One other question I have is this, if the bearing in the water pump is starting to fail, coolant will exit the system via the weep hole, correct?

How much water, that is would I see a puddle say if the car was driven for 30 minutes and then parked on smooth concrete, would it be enough to be noticable.

I drive the car from my house 30 minutes to work (in traffic) and park in the same spot in the parking garage every day. I leave for lunch and come back and have never noticed any "leakage".

Also, I drive the car 20 minutes home every day (less traffic because it is usually late) and park it in my garage, and likewise I have never noticed any leakage.

My problem is not that the water pump needs to be replaced, but with the contention of the service rep that it will never just fail and it has been leaking for some time.

My theory is the tech test drove it, wound it up tight and caused a probably already slightly bad bearing over the edge which is why the coolant light (??) came on while he was returning from the test run and then noticed it was leaking when he investigated the light on.

If a light did come on during the test drive as they contend, then would there or would there not be a code and the data in the computer reflecting the state of operation when the light "lit"??

Thanks again for all your help, I will keep you posted as to the outcome.

Mick

 

[mick_s3]

One other thing, I left explicit instructions that none of the codes should be removed from the system, so I will see what is there when I pick the car up tonight, and that should shed a little more light on what happened.

Mick

 

[yellow_2002_germany]

I don't know what dealer you bought your car from. However, when I was stationed in Tampa I knew a couple of vette owners who took their cars to the dealer east of town on 60. I can't recall the name of the dealer right this minute. But at the time they did have 2 full time vette mechanics.

There are also 2 other corvette only places in Tampa that do service. Classic Corvette is a block south and west of Beltram Corvette. I can't recall the name of the other. It is located on Dale Mabry just south of Kennedy I believe. I can't recall the name of the place. I last lived there nearly 7 years ago.

Good luck getting your problem resolved.

 

[mick_s3]

Well I got my car back, and after stopping by the dealership and speaking with the salesman who sold me the car, they cut me a fair deal. So I am happy about that.


I found a couple of new codes
U1255
U1016

more electrical stuff.

I find it odd that the service tech insists that a dash light came on, but there are no codes in the computer.

Not sure what is going on with that, but I highly doubt I will ever take the car back there for service.

 

[Ctfoodguy2000]

Lots (MOST) forum users bash dealers all the time. Wouldn't it be nice if every dealership had a pro like Paul (c4c5specialist)?!! Goes to prove that not ALL dealership's mechanics are as bad as some would like us to beleive.

Thanks Paul

 

[mick_s3]

Well the car is back at the dealer again. I got in it this morning and when I accelerated a little more than 1/4 throttle the car just fell flat on it's face.

I talked to the mechanic, took him for a ride and he said he had never seen one do that before =)

Basically what it looks like is the plastic tube from the MAF to the intake has collapsed which is restricting the air. I am waiting for them to call me and let me know how much this is going to cost. I am contemplating trading the car in. With all these problems and all the electrical codes it keeps throwing I am starting to see why the original owners got rid of it. Sure is a shame, I love the car and can't afford a brand new one, but I am starting to get the feeling I got suckered on this deal.

Ah well...

Thanks again to everyone for all the input I do appreciate the help!

Mick

 

[mick_s3]

If anyone is still following this, pretty pathetic I am replying to my own posts,but I thought I would finish this off.

The dealer figured out that the air filter in the car was not the correct one, which was causing extra pressure to be exerted on the tube that collapsed, which is why it eventually collapsed. Probably hurt the performance too, I would imagine.

They replaced the filter and the tube, washed it and topped off the tank.

$0.

I spoke to the tech about the electrical codes and he did his best to assure me it was nothing to worry about as long as they are always H.

Overall, while this has ****ed me off at times and been a real pain, I feel that the dealer did a good job, under the circumstances, to make things right.

I paid $160 for an 02 sensor, water pump, air filter, tube from the intake to the MAF, car wash and 3 gallons of gas.

Thanks again for the information everyone.

Mick

 

[*89x2*]

$0.

Free is one of my favorite words
Enjoy your Vette