Lots of folks out there bashing the C4...what gives?

[joe j]

The C4 is a great design and a blast to drive.

 

[Blackback]

C4 owner

It doesn't matter what others think, only how your vette makes you feel on the open road, just appreciate and keep shifting baby! BB

 

[AV8R]

Amen....

It doesn't matter what others think, only how your vette makes you feel on the open road, just appreciate and keep shifting baby! BB

Heres another C4 - 90 vette basher...
Curbside Classic: GM’s Deadly Sin #9 – 1990 Corvette | The Truth About Cars

My 90 has been getting lots of fixes lately, but it still runs strong at 82K miles and gets between 16-25 mpg. Same as my 2009 GMC Arcadia with its 6 banger.
She's gettin old, but she'll hold...

 

[RedHot85Vette]

***sorry if this is in the wrong forum....I am still new to this website***

Ok, so I know that there are all kinds of people that give all kinds of advice. I am trying to get into my first corvette, and in doing research I have opened several discussion threads talking about the pros and cons of the C4. Some say the C4 is dated. I say its classic. Some folks say its an 80's designed quirky nightmare...I say it has personality. Some say get a C5 because a C4 is such an old design. I say I want as pristine a vette I can get and the quality I want is not affordible if I look at a c-5. My price range is $16-19k, not $25k-$30k.

Check out this thread over at the contour enthusiasts group. I got them talking about the subject because I wanted them to play devil's advocate with my purchase....just so I know I'm getting in for the right reasons...so far I have been able to fight off the critics.

CEG Forums

One question though, and the reason for this post....

What say you C4 guys about the differences between the C4 and C5, especially from a technical and emotional perspecitve. I know what they are on paper, but don't know how the revisions changed the personality of the car....I would enjoy some of your comments when comparing the two generations, especially since you guys are already proud owners....I hope to be one too in April!!! thanks.

Ha! Don't listen to them. They're just not knowledgeable about the history or technical engineering that went into the development of the C4... the Mother of All Corvettes to follow. At the time the C4 first came out, especially the 1985 year where they went to TPI. I have tons of research, books, reviews, articles, etc, that discuss the amazing design and engineering of Dave Mclellan and Jerry Palmer's Wonder Car of the World Sportscar Industry. The C4 is NO Doubt just as much a wonder as it was 35 years ago. The Truth and the Facts are All over the place if one looks just a little.

When discussing things with others, always ask where they get their data from. If they can't give that to you, hit the "Reject" button. You want intelligent informed information, not rumours, gossip and hearsay. I can shut any bad mouth down in a heartbeat with a torrent of data that would avalanche anything bad anybody could say about The Original C4, your prospective purchase. Before I say anything else. BUY IT! You are right about how you feel and the things you say about affordability. You WILL be getting tons of bang for your buck. And for a few bucks, and a few mods, your early C4 will meet or beat horse power/torque any average store bought C5 anyway, an probably with just as many, or fewer, "quirks".

Read about what Mr. Lingenfelter and Mr. Callaway have done with the C4 back in the day. Read about "The Sledgehammer". I have read from both guys who said it was the "...best platform" for building the kind of amazing machines they are legend for. I have seen interviews with car collectors, who said, out of all the 100's of cars they own, that the C4 was their favorite car to drive. Watch any YouTube or other video where one of these 33 year old cars are being reviewed... notice the smiles on thier faces and the joy as they shout "Yahoooooo!!!" when they paste the pedal. One of the worst negative reviews was a guy saying the cup holders were too small (they are!), It's absolutely remarkable how these cars have so far away and above stood the test of time with styling and technical engineering. Just as Awesome today as decades ago and for many more decades to come.

I don't have time right now as I'm at work but I'll try to get back to this thread soon to add more reference material for you to peruse. I'm also in the middle of moving and all my cool Corvette research materials are in boxes somewhere. I have original dealer material up the wazoo and facts and figures from The Best Corvette knowledgeable guys around. Interviews, Reviews, and Aricles from the foremost automotive magazines around.

Get the C4. You won't be sorry. I prefer the '85. That's what I got. It's the first in my book. 1984 was the true first. With the Z51 package the Handling was the best in the world, the Base C4 was second best. It was "Beyond Belief" as one reviewer put it. When asked what year Corvette he preferre, he responded the 1984 with the Z51 package for the handling characteristics alone. BUT the ride was way too harsh for street use, so afterwards the suspensions were softened up a bit. Almost half of the C4's of 1984 were bought with the Z51 package because buyers thought it would be cool. They were understandibly unhappy with the ride and complained loudly.

Get the C4. If only for the conversation aspects. By comparison the C5 is not even in the same ballpark. You'll be chomping your tongue off enthusiastically spitting out facts and data about your car for days. Oh! And after you let one of your friends or family drive your car and seeing their faces and hearing their excited Yahooo's, and listening too them say with that incredulity in their voices and astounded look on their faces, saying stuff like "33 years old, 33 years old?!?!?!". Forgeddaboudit! The reactions you get from people who drive your car, I guarantee you won't see from anybody driving any other car. Period. The car makes friends and lovers out of everybody. It has lots of class, beauty, and mystique. Wherever you park there will be people who want to talk to you. Add additional time to your errands.

I purchased my '85, Bright Red, for $5K. Beautiful! Well cared for by a nice senior gentlman. All GM parts like from the factory. 118K miles. The paint was fresh and perfect. Everything worked. No wear. No tear. And I had found other prospects worth looking at as well in that price range. I only had $5K to work with, really. I sold my '64 Mercury Comet. A beautiful sweetheart of a car. Black, gorgeous red interior, indestructable 6 cylinder. So Sweet. I still miss her. I had severe spine surgery, crack of my butt to nape of my neck an alloy of titanium/cobalt, custom made, extra large, rods and screws. I couldn't bend over the fenders anymore without incredible pain and difficulty. I daccidentally iscovered I could own my dream hot rod, and for just about what I sold the Comet for. I couldn't believe how affordable the C4 was. But they did make a lot of them. AND... NO FENDERS! HA! A couple of weeks ago, I was sitting on top of my front drivers side tire cleaning my throttle body. You could practically give the car a tune up while sitting in a lounge chair.

OH! and before I forget, I have just one word for you: "ZR1".

I don't care what Vette you show me... give me the clam shell hood, baby! Just for that design brilliance alone, I'd cross the C5 and every other car on the planet off my list.

Here's a Fun Article: When the C4 Corvette was banned for being too good, it had to create its own series | Hagerty Articles

I've got tons of stuff like this.

Here's an important article for you to read asap: Chevrolet Corvette C4 - "The Arrival Of A Future King" | The Ultimate Guide

Major Important Book that will open the door of knowledge to you. History. Technical Data. More. Even talks about mods, the good, the bad, the ugly. Lots of references to the best references. A fantastic read that will have you driving your C4 the next day after reading it.

Amazon: C4 Corvette Buyers Guide: A Reference for the Purchase and Maintenance of the 4th Generation Corvette: John Loughmiller: 9781533414090: Amazon.com: Books

The Illustrated Buyers Guide to the Corvette, by Michael Antonik (Big Time authority oln the Corvette; awesome stuff about the C4, divided up into year groups; also author of the Corvette Black Book)

Illustrated Corvette Buyer's Guide (Motorbooks International Illustrated Buyer's Guide) by Michael Antonick (1997-03-03): Amazon.com: Books

Just Remember: Johnny says... The C4... everything else is just... after...

Let's see... what else... "quirky nightmare"?! what electro-mechanical machine isn't a quirky nightmare? ALWAYS ASK: what are the quirks you're talking about, specifically? My wife, every time the computer annoys her... "this thing is glitchy!". I'm a retired electro-mechanical tech of a wide variety of disciplines. I worked on stuff going back to the 1890's. I love contraptions. Cars, classics and hot rods are my favorites. In fact, there wouldn't be a Hot Rod Industry if it weren't for quirks. How many people/techs you know can make a house call and repair your 1962 Wurlitzer jukebox? Talk about quirky?!?! Seems to me the newer the car, the more quirks it has. My '64 Comet had no emission controls. Not even a PCV valve. Was made in Canada. It had a draft pipe that went from the cylinder head to underneath the car where the poisonous gases blew away under the car while driving. But even it had quirks. No automotive engineering as far as I know of, from the first car ever made to the last is without quirks.

Quite often, I have found, that many who talk about "quirkiness" are just not up on a thing. They're lacking knowledge about how a thing works, or how to fix it. I dislike it when someone says something like "these fill-in-the-blank cars are known for their fill-in-the-blank blah-blah-blahs". There are a lot of know-it-all people and mechanics. Always show up at a automobile repair shop with your Chilton or Haynes manual in hand... which are good books by the way... again, if someone guffaws, ask them what's bad about them. I've used them all my automotive life. Chilton is the better one. More data. Thicker pages. Great schematics and diagrams. Someone show me something I can't fix on my car using it. Often mechanics will talk to you like you know nothing about cars. Even if you don't, it'll make them think you do and maybe they'll be more factual about their information. But take the time to learn about the many systems related to your car. It's just good sense, will probably save you money, and all-in-all you'll be a happier car owner... in fact, you'll quickly graduate from car owner to enthusiast if you do. Don't be afraid of schematics neither. Just follow the yellow, blue, or geen/white wire to electronics happy land.

My thing is this: if your car is not operating at least according to factory spec; if not all systems are nominal; then something is wrong and needs to be fixed. I believe if your a good tech, there are no "quirks", there's something that needs to be fixed. That's all. Sometimes quirks translated are called recalls. If your C4 left the dealer lot capable of a speed up to 150 miles per hour (and it was)... but on the way to the supermarket you notice it was no longer pulling its weight... you need to investigate. If the braking is off and you keep slamming into cars in front of you... you need to investigate. Same goes for everything.

I once heard a stupid self inflicted car critic on youtube critiquing some guy's Corvette what had a pile of add-ons and mods. Wasn't even the same engine. Had a stroker in there. Changed the whole dynamics of the car. He was critiquing a 33 year old car, kinda like it was a new unmodified factory car. He wasn't critiquing a Corvette, per se, he was critiquing some guy's personal custom hot rod, nothing close to it's original design. The reviewer said something about the suspension being mushy and that "these cars are known for that". Quite the opposite is true. Then the owner goes on to say he hadn't done anything with the suspension. Of course it was mushy! 33 year old rubber! Who knows how many miles were on the car or what kind of use it got. Once you change a thing, it's yours, you own that thing, and it's your responsibility. These cars are not a pile of parts, they're systems, and sub-systems, and they're all part of the same song. If you take away Jimmy's lead from Stairway to Heaven... it's just not the same is it.

But changing and modifying are the very essence of Hot Rodding. Customization! Yeah Man! Create a new song out of an old one. Put your own lead on it. Make it yours! I'm so Happy to have my Corvette. I'm so Happy to be Hot Rodding. My car will never be pristine, factory dust original everything. I won't make it look like the Bat Mobile or nothing like that... nor tear the engine to pieces... like to get a little higher gears in the rear end... but that goddam motor's gonna look bitchin'!

Once you start modifying and changing things, be even more extra careful about using the word quirk around your car. Engineers don't spend days and weeks designing things a certain way just for fun. For 99.9% of them, everything has to have function according to a spec they've been given. Just because you don't have the foggiest about why a thing is the way it is, don't mean there ain't a reason for it. The other thing is that, unfortunately, Engineers are people too, and they screw up just like the rest of us. Maybe to explain my point better... if you buy a new car, and you later discover a spark plug factory installed inside your glove box... do your research, ask questions before you remove it.

PS. I like this post. Thanks! It's Fun! As for the naysayers, shrug 'em off... they know not what they drive.

Hot Rod Johnny V. Brennan
United States Coast Guard Veteran
Proud C4 Owner
I Love My Country, I Love My Car

 

[RedHot85Vette]

Yellow is a fantastic color for any Corvette, not to mention just about any Hot Rod. Just think about Milner's 32 Ford in American Graffiti. Probably the most popular, most loved, Hot Rod in the world. Yellow! I believe if it were any other color, it just wouldn't be so. And think about any Hot Rod, Bright Yellow, as yours... serious eye catching ability. I'd be very much drawn to attention seeing your car drive by. My '85 Bright Red Corvette bulges quite a few eyeballs, especially after a good nano wash-n-wax. Yep! That's a Beauty you got there.

 

[Superc63]

I know the youtube review Redhot85 is talking about, The Smoking Tire. The host is usually ok, but in this review, he was pretty bad.

I feel like he should have a Tosh.O redo!

It was a review of a really nice 91 Z07...but the FX3 was temporarily OOC...so, not the best example of Z07 handling.

The audio drone in the video was oh so familiar! Haha

YouTube

 

[Scottsredvette]

Ahh, the C4 debate. To each his own, but,,,, I still think that the C4 was/is the best looking Vette ever made. had my knee's not gone bad, I would still be driving mine. Sold it at 180,000 miles and miss it every day. Got to the point to where it just plain hurt to climb in and out so I switched brands and got something that still performed but had an easier entry/exit and still had classic looks. This is a shot of my 89 while driving in the mountains of Colorado. Red does look good on Vettes!!!

 

[Toms007]

I like C4s. Dated design? Sure....the newest C4 is 23 years old and the oldest 35. But, in it's day, they were awesome. Today they are classic. Wish I had had/have the resources to have been able to keep my 94 when I moved to the C5 and then kept that one when I moved to the C6. Not enough storage area or money to do that.

 

[Scottsredvette]

Dated design??? Still a fine looking automobile, and, still outperforms a whole bunch lot of newer performance vehicles. And speaking of supposedly dated designs that keep on trucking and performing above and beyond...the last B-52H was delivered to the gov't in 1962. Sometimes older is better. 3 Reasons The Legendary B-52 Bomber Will Outlive All Of Us - Task & Purpose

 

[Toms007]

No argument there Scott. A fine looking design, and one I'd choose before many newer cars.

 

[Johnm_1971]

I just bought my first vette, a 95 with 100,000 miles and several years of neglect but I love it. It's a work in progress. I like the c3 body style alot but for my money the c4 was it. I agree with a previous statement. Drive what you have and love it. Is there really a bad Corvette? I personally dont think so

 

[Idaho Slim]

I love my C-4. Classic lines and look of a formidable sports car, which it is ….. :cool