May 2004: C6 Corvette Design: Reality or Restraint?

[04cmnthru]

Its cost a lot of R&D money nowadays to produce a completely new car and car companies are having a tough time at making real money in today's environment. For example, just getting a vehicle Federally certified costs a boat load of cash. Also, production costs are only part of the story - you may have heard of GM's outstanding pension liabilities. My point is that most car companies cannot affort to introduce really "revolutionary" redesigns - most of what is offered is based on a mix of old and new.

I assume that is part of the reason Chevy purposefully went to an evolutionary design to save some money somewhere along the line. And while I agree that the design is evolutionary, they did put money into the engineering that gives us 50 more hp, better handling, improved service intervals, improved materials, and better build quality - so it may be more "revolutionary" than meets the eye. And many of the changes were things Vette owners were complaining about - so give them credit for listening. And to top it all off, Chevy has to hit a price "bogey" or the car will lose its customer base - Chevy still has to have some "volume" in sales.

Just remember that the C2 and C3 were alot more alike than different - i.e., chassis was basically unchanged as were engines, trans etc. The techology really wasn't that radical although the body design was. I guess its where do you want your money. For me, I want it in performance and build quality.

ALthough the car design is not a radical departure, it certainly stays true to the heritage and won't be mistaken for anything else. Peace.

 

[Edmond]

I assume that is part of the reason Chevy purposefully went to an evolutionary design to save some money somewhere along the line. And while I agree that the design is evolutionary, they did put money into the engineering that gives us 50 more hp, better handling, improved service intervals, improved materials, and better build quality - so it may be more "revolutionary" than meets the eye.

I agree with the saving money part. However, I do not agree that they put money into the engineering to give us 50 more hp or better handling.

Those 50 more hp were already around and they just used tried and true methods. They didn't have to do any new research or development; IMO, that was already there with the current Z06 line. And that's with less displacement. In terms of handling, it was again there with the current Z06 line.

 

[Evolution1980]

We can't compare Porsche and GM; it's like apples and oranges. Porsche is a specific line and GM is the whole company. If we compared Porsche and Vette', that would be different.

Who is the parent company of Porsche?

 

[Edmond]

Who is the parent company of Porsche?

:confused Don't know the answer to that one. I know someone here does.

 

[04cmnthru]

I agree with the saving money part. However, I do not agree that they put money into the engineering to give us 50 more hp or better handling.

Those 50 more hp were already around and they just used tried and true methods. They didn't have to do any new research or development; IMO, that was already there with the current Z06 line. And that's with less displacement. In terms of handling, it was again there with the current Z06 line.

Generally agree but still think the C6 represents some R&D and engineering "creative thinking". The C6 engine has to undergo its own emissions and durability testing to meet Federal standards and quality control since it is a new engine. While the general "technology" has been there, its application is not exactly a no brainer. If 50 ponies were that easy to pick up, then I don't know why there are so many posts on this forum of owners having to spend several thousand dollars to get them - and still we read of posts where daily drivability is affected. So, IMHO, 50 hp requires some engineering both in terms of making it and making it useful (putting it on the ground).

If as Chevy says the new Vette has over 80% new parts, then there certainly is R&D involved. I agree that the handling was there in the Z06 if thats what Chevy wanted the base car to be - but they didn't - we all know that the Z06 is has an edge that the base C5 doesn't have. You won't find that "edge" in the base C6 either (from what I have read).

 

[Edmond]

Generally agree but still think the C6 represents some R&D and engineering "creative thinking". The C6 engine has to undergo its own emissions and durability testing to meet Federal standards and quality control since it is a new engine. While the general "technology" has been there, its application is not exactly a no brainer. If 50 ponies were that easy to pick up, then I don't know why there are so many posts on this forum of owners having to spend several thousand dollars to get them - and still we read of posts where daily drivability is affected. So, IMHO, 50 hp requires some engineering both in terms of making it and making it useful (putting it on the ground).

If as Chevy says the new Vette has over 80% new parts, then there certainly is R&D involved. I agree that the handling was there in the Z06 if thats what Chevy wanted the base car to be - but they didn't - we all know that the Z06 is has an edge that the base C5 doesn't have. You won't find that "edge" in the base C6 either (from what I have read).

I think the increase in displacement would require the engine to not work as hard to make power as a smaller engine.

IMO, I think the C6 is going to raise the bar higher. And when the Z06 version comes out; watch out! I can only imagine what they have in store for that car. If Chevy can mass produce the C5 Z06 and sell it at that price with a 350; I can only wonder what they'll do with more displacement and determination.

 

[04cmnthru]

I think the increase in displacement would require the engine to not work as hard to make power as a smaller engine.

IMO, I think the C6 is going to raise the bar higher. And when the Z06 version comes out; watch out! I can only imagine what they have in store for that car. If Chevy can mass produce the C5 Z06 and sell it at that price with a 350; I can only wonder what they'll do with more displacement and determination.

I am with you on that - Vettes will continue to offer the best overall performance value and that's something to get excited about - - gotta be able to kick azz on Vipers and future Cobras. Peace

 

[Edmond]

I am with you on that - Vettes will continue to offer the best overall performance value and that's something to get excited about - - gotta be able to kick azz on Vipers and future Cobras. Peace

Oh yeah, Corvette's can definitely hang with them. I'm not flaming here, but I talk to people who hardly know anything about cars and all they say is, "Yeah, the Viper has a V10. The Corvette only has a V8." Or they'll say, "The Viper is $80,000 and the Corvette is only $50,000." Someone needs to explain to those people that there isn't an absolute correlation between price/cylinders and performance.

But I think the C5 owners have taken an image beating. I think the stereotype of a C5 owner is the guy who only takes his car out on the weekend when it has 0% chance of rain and plays golf and goes 5 under the speed limit. The stereotype seems to be some old guy who can't have fun anymore. Of course, those are the opinions of people who have never owned a Corvette before.

 

[Cape Cod Bob]

My 20 minute ride in a C6 6-speed with Z51 performance package is that it's a ZO6 but the top comes off and you have all that luggage space in the rear. Shifts better and the throw is shorter. Interior is nicer and the new runflats are excellent. Sound system rocks! Handling is as good as my ZO6 from what I could gather on a fast run through the back roads of Bowling Green.
Only negative is the front plate goof. I'm trying to think if this is the 1st year Corvette has not provided a built-in front license plate spot...or the 1st year on a Corvette where 3 holes have to be DRILLED into the front of the car to attach a front plate.

Bob

 

[Rob]

My 20 minute ride in a C6 6-speed with Z51 performance package is that it's a ZO6 but the top comes off and you have all that luggage space in the rear. Shifts better and the throw is shorter. Interior is nicer and the new runflats are excellent. Sound system rocks! Handling is as good as my ZO6 from what I could gather on a fast run through the back roads of Bowling Green.
Only negative is the front plate goof. I'm trying to think if this is the 1st year Corvette has not provided a built-in front license plate spot...or the 1st year on a Corvette where 3 holes have to be DRILLED into the front of the car to attach a front plate.

Bob

Bob,

Thanks for sharing your experiences with the C6!

 

[1g1yy]

I'm sure the C6 is an improvement over the C5 in many ways -- but I kinda like the flowing lines of the C5 better.

There is one area in which the C6 is a disappointment to me. ( Actually I am glad of it because it means I will have no great desire to trade my C5 on a C6! )
You see, I have muscular dystrophy and my legs are now so weak that I cannot depress a clutch pedal. This means I have to be happy with an A4 now. I will only consider trading in my C5 when GM develops a paddle shifted 5 speed automatic. There are many like me who, for various reasons, need an automatic. It does NOT mean we don't care about performance. One of the main reasons I bought a Corvette is because it is one of the few cars I could afford that still performs well with an automatic. But it is high time GM put a worthy automatic in the Corvette. So, I guess I will be waiting on the C7!

 

[doylede]

I'm sure the C6 is an improvement over the C5 in many ways -- but I kinda like the flowing lines of the C5 better.

There is one area in which the C6 is a disappointment to me. ( Actually I am glad of it because it means I will have no great desire to trade my C5 on a C6! )
You see, I have muscular dystrophy and my legs are now so weak that I cannot depress a clutch pedal. This means I have to be happy with an A4 now. I will only consider trading in my C5 when GM develops a paddle shifted 5 speed automatic. There are many like me who, for various reasons, need an automatic. It does NOT mean we don't care about performance. One of the main reasons I bought a Corvette is because it is one of the few cars I could afford that still performs well with an automatic. But it is high time GM put a worthy automatic in the Corvette. So, I guess I will be waiting on the C7!

I agree with your comment about the lines of the C5. Using 50 HP as bait, GM has reshaped a classic. The C2 and the C5 will, I believe, be the two classic Vettes in the future.

Regarding the manual/auto part of your message, while I don't have any medical condition other than old injuries, arthritis and high mileage with poor service, I agree with your request for a paddle shifted manual. This type of transmission is just BETTER. Since GM buys the manual in the Vette, perhaps they can buy a paddle shifted manual without using it as an excuse to add big bucks to the Vette price.

Have hope, the A4 is still available on the C6 Coupe and Vert. In fact, it is new and improved? with a downshift for corners feature and sufficient added strength to handle the 400 ft-lb of the LS2.

 

[Rob]

Regarding the manual/auto part of your message, while I don't have any medical condition other than old injuries, arthritis and high mileage with poor service, I agree with your request for a paddle shifted manual. This type of transmission is just BETTER. Since GM buys the manual in the Vette, perhaps they can buy a paddle shifted manual without using it as an excuse to add big bucks to the Vette price.

My opinion is still out on a paddle-shifting transmission. The concept is neat. I understand that it's used in various types of car racing. Admittedly, I have not driven a paddle-shifter equipped car before so I might absolutely love it, or I could totally hate it.

I do know one thing, there is nothing like grabbing hold of a short-throw stick shift, and running through the gears. In a car that I use for commuting back and forth to work, I usually want an automatic simply because it's a pain in the rear to be shifting in and out of 1st and 2nd gear incessantly in stop and go traffic.

However, when it comes to a sports car used for sporting driving, etc., give me a manual stick-shift any day.

 

[JBsC5]

How bout if you could have both?


Forget paddles for a minute and imagine a shifter just like you have now..

That could cut 2 more seconds out of your zero to 100mph run times..

Zeroshift being implemented in Europe for factory TVR's (similiar in concept to Corvettes) and I have been in contact with them on their prototype Tremec T56 for corvettes..

Could be the corvette team is going this route for the 2006 /7 Z06 C6..

Not an electrical computer device at all and designed for the street.

 

[JBsC5]

Here's the link to a very cool article with diagrams and photos too.

http://www.pistonheadstv.com/images/ZeroShift_RacecarEng_0204.pdf

 

[Evolution1980]

I think Audi just released their brand new paddle-shift transmission. According to Car and Driver, it shifts faster than you can manually because it uses a double-clutch system. As the first clutch is removing the first gear, a second clutch is already engaging the second gear. ...or something like that.

 

[invinceablevett]

How bout if you could have both?


Forget paddles for a minute and imagine a shifter just like you have now..

That could cut 2 more seconds out of your zero to 100mph run times..

Zeroshift being implemented in Europe for factory TVR's (similiar in concept to Corvettes) and I have been in contact with them on their prototype Tremec T56 for corvettes..

Could be the corvette team is going this route for the 2006 /7 Z06 C6..

Not an electrical computer device at all and designed for the street.

.........Just last week a buddy of mine came to pick me up to show me his new toy......A Red 1967 Convertible manual Corvette with Air Conditioning..(this car was owned by Felix Ptovin,goaltender in the NHL).......That thing was a beauty.....Well he came to pick me up in a 2003 BMW Z4 .Apparently it has 225 HP,..cute ....but wait,where it gets interesting is that it is an automatic AND manual.I tell you that transmission was awesome....The shifter is located where an automatic is but you can shift manually if you so desire.....I liked it alot and I wish Gm would use some sort of paddle shift too....Just my .02 cents.

 

[doylede]

My opinion is still out on a paddle-shifting transmission. The concept is neat. I understand that it's used in various types of car racing. Admittedly, I have not driven a paddle-shifter equipped car before so I might absolutely love it, or I could totally hate it.

I do know one thing, there is nothing like grabbing hold of a short-throw stick shift, and running through the gears. In a car that I use for commuting back and forth to work, I usually want an automatic simply because it's a pain in the rear to be shifting in and out of 1st and 2nd gear incessantly in stop and go traffic.

However, when it comes to a sports car used for sporting driving, etc., give me a manual stick-shift any day.

I have driven paddle shifting cars, but they are paddle shifting automatics, i.e. Porsche Boxster.

What I would like to see the Corvette employ is a paddle shifted, automatically shifted, manual transmission. Other than the Ferrari Enzo, I don't know of a street car that uses this system today. But, I know nothing, don't take that as a expert opinion.

I do know that the auto-manual shifts faster and smoother than any professional race driver. Ferrari F1 racing has said that Schumaker didn't like the transmission because he thought he was faster (they say he is not), and he was smoother (they say he is not). They claimed .1 sec shift times.

Nobody can shift that fast every time. Well, I will back up a little. I've seen people do amazing things. Perhaps Senna had reflexes that justified his enormous salary. Schumaker thinks that he has such abilities. Ferrari says he doesn't.

 

[Bob Yates]

I'm going to jump in here and say I don't know about all the tech talk you guys are talking about.The thing I'm going to say is the one thing that has always been a fact about a Corvette is that it's a Dream Car built and sold by a major car manufacturer and you and I can own it. That's what the Corvette has always been about. All the designs and tech things are just some one putting their dreams and ideas in a form others can own. There are but a hand full of real cars that can stand up to the Corvette and deep in side all who own one know this. The Corvette is as a Dream Car that gets better with each new model change.The Corvette only goes backwards when put in reverse. That's just my take on the car I own......Bob Yates

 

[capkarl]

I'm going to jump in here and say I don't know about all the tech talk you guys are talking about.The thing I'm going to say is the one thing that has always been a fact about a Corvette is that it's a Dream Car built and sold by a major car manufacturer and you and I can own it. That's what the Corvette has always been about. All the designs and tech things are just some one putting their dreams and ideas in a form others can own. There are but a hand full of real cars that can stand up to the Corvette and deep in side all who own one know this. The Corvette is as a Dream Car that gets better with each new model change.The Corvette only goes backwards when put in reverse. That's just my take on the car I own......Bob Yates

Couln't have said it better myself. Saturn owners don't join "Saturn" clubs and Porche owners don't wave to each other.
Karl