More problems Code 32

[Schrade]

Scharde, I’ll do another scan tomorrow and post the results. The previous scan was done last fall. Right now there is no light on depicting a problem.

Is it loping idle?

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[Dog House]

Excuse my ignorance but what is loping? The dictionary refers to a horse with a long easy stride?

 

[TedC]

No consistent or stable RPM. RPM cycles up and down, almost like in a pattern. Could indicate a lean or rich condition.

 

[Dog House]

Then it’s not loping, it actually idles just very ruff. Beside another scan today I’m going to make sure it’s firing on all eight.

 

[TedC]

I went back and reread the beginning of this thread. It looks like you set the timing properly. It was was too advanced (typical of someone trying get a few extra HP). The TPS idle voltage was on the high side (typical of someone tring to make the engine more responsive or having problems reaching 4V+ at WOT). Minimum idle screw cap missing (typical of someone who thinks this controls idle speed when infact the ECM does). Post closed loop numbers. I'm interested in the IAC counts. If mnimum idle speed is set up correctly, 20-30 counts at idle is the norm. The ECM controls idle speed by moving the IAC valve, letting air bypass the throttle plates. Someone could of really screwed up the min air idle speed, not allowing the ECM enough range (control) to manage idle. Plus, the ECM requires a min idle speed to properly start the engine.

 

[Schrade]

If it's not loping, that doesn't mean it's DOESN'T have a vacuum leak; it only means you can't tell by idle quality.

I say let's not wait to get to page 11 before starting at square 1.

Clear memory (dis-connnect battery).
Fire it til it goes Closed loop - I think 176+ coolant temp. PAY ZERO ATTENTION to COLD IDLE QUALITY. Let it run for 5 - 10 minutes.
Shut down, stick in a paper clip, and get codes.

Post back.

 

[Dog House]

I replaced all the vacuum lines last fall when I got the car. Disconnected the battery for about 5 minutes, ran a scan both cold and after hitting 200 temp and no codes. My scanner is telling me it never went to closed loop? It was open loop on three scans.

 

[Dog House]

Here are the numbers from the scans, first number cold second after warm up.

Open/closed loop: open, open
Exhaust oxygen: lean, lean
TPS: .50, .52
Block learn:128, 128
IAC position:160, 160
FT cell: 0, 15
02 crossments: no, no
Base PW (ms): 0, 3.0
Decal learn: no, no
A/F learned: no, no
Coolant: 65, 195
MAT degrees: 85, 82
MAF (9m/sec): 65, 195
Air flow (9m/sec): 23, 23
Load LV8: 0, 14
Spark adv: 0, 47
Knock: no, no
Knock retard: 0, 0
EGR Diag SW: on, on
Start CLNT degree F: 65, 195
Vats problem: yes, yes
P/N switch: pn, pn
TCC ???: p1, no
TCCapplyCKT: no, no
OD switch: on, on

 

[Schrade]

O2 crossments (measurements???)

This is L98?

Once exhaust temp hits 600 (and some other measurements hit spec too, like coolant temp), it then goes Closed.

Your coolant temp is being read. If there's no signal of measurement from O2, it's gonna stay Open loop. Check FSM to see what other parameters must be met for CL operation.

Exhaust should not be lean in OL. Another reason to look at O2 function - circuit feed, signal return. Are they heated O2's? Do you have a multimeter?

 

[Dog House]

It is an L98 and I do have a multi meter. I believe there is only one o2 sensor in the drivers side exhaust just below the manifold and I just replaced it the other day.

 

[Schrade]

It is an L98 and I do have a multi meter. I believe there is only one o2 sensor in the drivers side exhaust just below the manifold and I just replaced it the other day.

Replaced the O2? I guess the connector had signal voltage coming in, and the signal return tested ok? And remember - there's no signal until exhaust is 600 degrees...

Only concrete thing you have by the last scan is no CL. Check the FSM for all parameters that must be met for CL mode. Coolant temp 176 and exhaust temp 600 is the only ones I know. I bet there's a few more...

That spark advance is ALOT. 47 degrees is halfway to 90 degrees in the revolution cycle. How there can be no knock detected at that degree advance is strange. Test the KS - tap with a screwdriver handle next to the KS a couple of times quickly, and see if the motor stumbles.

 

[Dog House]

When you remove the vacuum line at the EGR slenoid that comes from the canister (not the round one) in the left front of the car should you be able to feel vacuum? I don’t feel anything at all. I can remove the two lines on the back side of the plenum and feel it just fine.

 

[boomdriver]

Its probably not an issue. That particular vac originates from beneath the TB where there is a vac port that does not pull much, at least no where as much as the plenum fittings will. I think it only pulls vac at higher throttle positions.

 

[Schrade]

When you remove the vacuum line at the EGR slenoid that comes from the canister (not the round one) in the left front of the car should you be able to feel vacuum? I don’t feel anything at all. I can remove the two lines on the back side of the plenum and feel it just fine.

HeRE'S THE ANSWER AGAIN:

No, YOU SHOULD NOT FEEL VACUUM, BECAUSE IT IS NOT IN THE PURGE MODE, BUT YOU ARE THINKING CORRECTLY.

LiKE I SAID IN THE OTHER POST, YOU HAVE TO EITHER JUMP THE SOLENOID, OR, BYPASS THE VACUUM SOLENOID, SO THAT IT IS EITHER IN THE CCP/EVAP PURGE MODE AT IDLE, OR IS VACUUM-BYPASSED, SO THAT YOU CAN DETECT THE VACUUM LEAK AT IDLE.

OnCE YOU DO THIS, YOU CAN THEN DO THE VACUUM LEAK TEST, EXACTLY AS I DESCRIBED EARLIER, AND FIND THE LEAK IN THE CCP/EVAP VACUUM CIRCUIT.

AgAIN - A LEAK IN THE CCP/EVAP WILL INDICATE FALSELY A DTC 32, SINCE CCP/EVAP GETS ROUTED THROUGH EGR VACUUM PORT.

L98 OwNERS - BOOKMARK THIS POST!!!

DoGHOUSE; THIS SHOULD BE THE END OF THIS PROBLEM YUP.

 

[TedC]

Nice job Schrade!!! You are now the expert advisor on ALL odd ball C4 DTCs!!!

 

[Schrade]

Expert? Doubtful. I don't know nuthin', and can't explain anything right either, nope. Maybe the oddball part is right tho'

I still say we're goin' 11 pages too tho' uh huh!

 

[Dog House]

Sharde, sorry if I appear to be ignorant, if this was a carbureted vehicle I wouldn’t have to bother you with my problems. You obviously have no idea what condition this car was in when I got it unless you have read through the entire post along with other posts I have started on this car.

Vacuum leak? I may be wrong but I don’t think so being I replaced ever line on the car.

Now here is a new twist for you.

I went to check for spark on all cylinders, I did not warm up the engine just hooked up to the spark plugs one at a time with a light tester with plug wire connectors I found at Harbor Chinese Freight.
I started on the drivers side and all was good so I went to the other side and found the passenger side of the engine was hotter the a pistol after firing a hundred rounds while the drivers side was still cool to the touch. This was in about a 2 minute period of time starting and stopping the engine.

So what would cause this? A vacuum leak? I don’t see how?

 

[Schrade]

Sharde, sorry if I appear to be ignorant, if this was a carbureted vehicle I wouldn’t have to bother you with my problems. You obviously have no idea what condition this car was in when I got it unless you have read through the entire post along with other posts I have started on this car.

Vacuum leak? I may be wrong but I don’t think so being I replaced ever line on the car.

Now here is a new twist for you.

I went to check for spark on all cylinders, I did not warm up the engine just hooked up to the spark plugs one at a time with a light tester with plug wire connectors I found at Harbor Chinese Freight.
I started on the drivers side and all was good so I went to the other side and found the passenger side of the engine was hotter the a pistol after firing a hundred rounds while the drivers side was still cool to the touch. This was in about a 2 minute period of time starting and stopping the engine.

So what would cause this? A vacuum leak? I don’t see how?

What MIGHT make one side of the motor/exhaust hotter than the other side is 2 things - LEAN burning on the hot side, or, timing error - firing the air/fuel when the exhaust valve is open.

Your timing was WAY advanced in one scan - 47'? I think you should do static timing check - something might be wrong there uh huh..

Get #1 hole on the squeeze (not blow; make SURE of this). Double check by the degree mark on the pulley timer mark. Try to get it at 0', and make sure it's on squeeze.

Pull the distributor cap, and see if the rotor is AT, or just BEFORE #1 cap contact (the next dist cap contact for the fire order is #8, so if the rotor tip is BETWEEN #1 and #8, then it's firing after TDC, which COULD make HOT exhaust, but that should be both sides. AT, or BEFORE...

If when you pull the cap, you find the rotor at the #6 dist cap contact, then you have the #1 hole on the blow stroke. Spin the crankshaft ONE complete spin. Put a socket on the hub to do this.

This is BASIC static timing check. NECESSARY for diagnostic uh huh. Post results. Also confirm that each wire is in sequence, AND to the proper cylinder - 1 - 8 - 4 - 3 - 6 - 5 - 7 - 2. Follow EACH wire. Assume NOTHING. If my Swahili is hard to understand, ask away.

 

[Schrade]

The L98 vac routing diagram that ttx6 posted is different than an '87 L98.

What this means is I was wrong, about EVERY L98 that has a DTC 32 EGR maybe having a leak in the EVAP vac routing, BECAUSE, apparently not every L98 routes EVAP through the EGR port.

If the diagram IS an '86, that means that GM changed it for '87, and CREATED a potential diagnostic flaw.

Doghouse - you need to check FSM vac routing diagram, to see IF your '88 is supposed to be same as '87...

 

[Dog House]

Mine is an 89, I'll have to go through the FSM again. I haven't been able to find a diagram as of yet, still need to look on the radiator to see if the sticker is there.