Need Advice to Not Blow 427-435 Deal

[Greg Gore]

Hi Everyone:

I have located a 1969 original L-71 car that is being offered by an owner who has stated he knows the car is valuable. The car is currently not running (engine is apart) and it has been repainted sometime in its past; don't know if there was a color change yet. He bought it for $4500 in 1979 with 80K miles and the car has 100K miles now. He was 24 at the time and he rebuilt the engine with oval heads(?), 10.25 pistons, huge cam, 4 barrel, headers and a scattershield. He spun a bearing soon after that and disassembled the engine again and it has been apart for some time now. He said it still has the original block with original deck surface and numbers and he has the original bellhousing but the heads, tri-power and distributor are long gone. It appears he lost interest in the car and it has been sitting in his garage. He said he would be happy to tell me whatever I wanted to know about the car but had no real idea about its actual value but that he knew this car had appreciated. He said he's pretty sure the block is not a restamp because when they were selling for $4000 in 1979 there would be no good reason to restamp a replacement block in those days. He said he wanted to get other folks opinions about its current value and check with a local Corvette shop before he sold it. We are still very early in negotiations and the information about it is starting to come forth but from what I can tell it will need to be restored. He said he would send pictures soon but was kind of reluctant to take pictures of a car with the engine all apart. I explained I would rather buy the car with the engine apart anyway and that to most folks the disassembled engine is lower priority than the rest of it if it still has its original block. I asked him what he thought about comparing the value of a restored one to what it would take to restore his and he thought that was a good idea. He told me he recently located a pair of 3919840 heads with I 26 8 date codes for sale at a good price and is thinking about getting them to get square port heads back on the car and maybe get it running again. He said another fellow wanted $3000 for a set with 1969 dates and there was no way he was going to spend that. He also said he would not pay the going price to get another tri-power setup and that it would have to sell without it. Is there a practical way to help decide a fair price to help both of us arrive at a win-win situation?

Thanks in advance, Greg

 

[BruceBed]

You're both doing your due diligence.When you both have your total facts, then let the seller present a price. This puts the ball in his court. Make sure you get all the costs, this will not be an inexpensive job to complete. If he really wants to sell he will price it correctly. If it's overpriced then you can counteroffer. It all comes down to what two people are willing to accept. Good luck.

 

[67HEAVEN]

Be sure to check around for pricing on replacing that intake and 3x2 carbs and air cleaner. :eek

If your intention would be to restore it to NCRS standards, prepare to spend a wheelbarrow full of greenbacks.....not that that's a bad thing.

 

[Lucy64]

It will not be cheap to put this car back to original. The tri-power alone is mucho bucks. You could buy it as is now and just keep it non-original and it would make a great driver until you get all of the parts together to fully restore. It sounds like the owner knows he has a car that COULD be a great car with alot of work. But, I think he also knows that as it sits today it really isn't worth the big bucks. Good luck and keep us informed how it goes.

 

[Greg Gore]

Advice is Appreciated!

Many thanks to all for the helpful tips. My intention would be to put the car back in factory original condition. I don't mind a long term project and am willing to take time to round up correct parts if they can be found. I realize the 435 stuff will not be cheap but I can try to get stuff a little at a time as long as it is correct; I don't think I could do it any other way. I have wanted to find a good BB car but I am not that knowledgeable yet to feel like I can make a wise choise at a Mecum auction. I recently joined the NCRS and started attending meets last year (Bloomington, Carlisle and Knoxville), bought all the books and studying to try get where I know more about these cars. I have heard there has been a lot of cloning going on so I guess there is no substitute for knowledge and experience in identifying original cars.

Regards, Greg

 

[Greg Gore]

The problem I think will be he has had the car a long time but has been watching Barrett-Jackson lately. The car was hotrodded and repainted, and has been mostly sitting with the engine apart, wrong heads, 4 bbl intake, big cam, headers, distributor discarded long ago, original glass replaced with non Astro at the time of the repaint but sees the big $ these cars are bringing and figures he has one. It could be difficult to get him to see the reality of the situation in that it's the Top Flight cars with a certificate that are doing this. He probably doesn't know what Top Flight is and probably doesn't care, all he knows is to him he has a nice car and it is just like the ones he sees on TV. How would you explain this without upsetting him?

Regards, Greg

 

[Lucy64]

I understand what you are saying, but if he was really watching and listening to BJ they waid over and over again that the original cars brought this kind of money and not the abused drivers. If he does refer to BJ just point out what the broadcasters themselves were saying.

 

[IH2LOSE]

The problem I think will be he has had the car a long time but has been watching Barrett-Jackson lately. The car was hotrodded and repainted, and has been mostly sitting with the engine apart, wrong heads, 4 bbl intake, big cam, headers, distributor discarded long ago, original glass replaced with non Astro at the time of the repaint but sees the big $ these cars are bringing and figures he has one. It could be difficult to get him to see the reality of the situation in that it's the Top Flight cars with a certificate that are doing this. He probably doesn't know what Top Flight is and probably doesn't care, all he knows is to him he has a nice car and it is just like the ones he sees on TV. How would you explain this without upsetting him?

Regards, Greg

Well I can tell you some times your just wasting your time. But the first thing you need to do is ask him what he is asking.

When i look at a car,I look at the Nada guide for the car in # 1 condition,this is an absolutely perfect car that's stored in a museum, (but actually most show cars you see are #2) from there i guesstimate what it will cost to bring the car to that condition, when you subtract what it will cost you to rebuild the car you realize its cheaper to purchase a car done over building one.that being said it give you an idea of what it will cost to rebuild the car and then helps you and the owner decide what a fair price to pay would be.

Now this is from a fellow who has a lot of irons in the fire to purchase stored collector cars. There are 3 local cars to me all corvettes just rotting away in back yards or garages. I send them a letter once a year reminding them I would like to purchase there cars,Normally I send them out in Mid January as our property taxes are due at the end of January and I am sure every one could use some extra money this time of the year.

I drop off my last years corvette catalogs so they can see the prices parts are currently selling for.

But i realize why these people dont want to sell there cars and its has to do with psychology, right now the car we think is rotting away in there yard, barn, or garage may happen to be there connection to there youth they dont want to give up, it may be a dream of there to build and drive the car again.As long as they still have the car they can day dream about when they will drive it again, they can talk about the day they will drive it again,then can boast to friends and family about how valuable the car is, but it may be a dream that's out of there means to make happen, they probably even know this as a fact but the problem is once the sell it the fate of there dreams is over. Never to come true. But as long as they still own it there is still a chance there dream can come true.

Most folks when trying to purchase a car from some one dont think of why some one is holding onto one of these cars and just through money in there face only to offend the owner.

Think about what I am saying here.

I purchased a 14,000 mile 1970 Mustang Mach 1 that nobody could purchase from the owner.They even offered the guy more money for the car then me Although the car had low miles on it, it was shot,it sat outside for decades on it belly.Needless to say The car was almost given to me with the promise of a ride in the car when it was done and giving first refusal to the original owner when and if I sold the car. Both promise I kept,I also took pictures of him with the car when it was done and gave him a complete restoration photo album with his name in it as the original owner of the car.

 

[Greg Gore]

Thanks IH2LOSE for a detailed well thought out response. You brought up an interesting point I had not considered before; the emotional aspect of keeping the car around in the hopes of one day restoring it for a return visit to the memories of a time of youthful exhuberance. The owner of the 69 L-71 bought a set of incorrect square port heads and is determined to get it running again because he has hope for a big score. I was at Carlisle last year and I talked at length to a fellow who was with a very nice looking fathom green L-71 coupe with 49k miles which was all original and with good numbers (he said); it was obvious he was a fussy owner and he was hoping to get $45,000 for it. If it checked out a car like that would make more sense than trying to piece one back together. I did not pursue it further because I didn't have enough confidence in my ability to tell an original car from a doctored up car.

Regards, Greg

 

[ZRGator]

IH2LOSE makes excellent points in moving the owner to let go.
But you make an excellent suggestion to your self...why not go after a car that is already closer to being right and making it better? You say you belong to NCRS and there are a lot of guys there who would help you in making sure you are looking at a real car. The expense and stress of restoring a basket case might be better spent on a car that is closer to being correct and then adding the finishing touches. BTW, I see that 3x2 setups for these cars are bringing $4000 or better, if correct. Either way, good luck in your hunt.

 

[IH2LOSE]

Thanks IH2LOSE for a detailed well thought out response. You brought up an interesting point I had not considered before; the emotional aspect of keeping the car around in the hopes of one day restoring it for a return visit to the memories of a time of youthful exhuberance. The owner of the 69 L-71 bought a set of incorrect square port heads and is determined to get it running again because he has hope for a big score. I was at Carlisle last year and I talked at length to a fellow who was with a very nice looking fathom green L-71 coupe with 49k miles which was all original and with good numbers (he said); it was obvious he was a fussy owner and he was hoping to get $45,000 for it. If it checked out a car like that would make more sense than trying to piece one back together. I did not pursue it further because I didn't have enough confidence in my ability to tell an original car from a doctored up car.

Regards, Greg

There are lots of real knowledgeable folks out there with the knowlege to help you find a car, If I was ever in the market for a High Quaility,High dollar vette,I would only purchase a car with recent NCRS flight Judging under its belt.Or enlist the help of a NCRS judge Failmilur with the year of car i was purchasing. Good luck Dont give up on the car needing work just better understand it value and the cost to make it a #1 car and the reason most folks are not selling there cars.