New Front End

[C3forME]

I'm getting ready to replace the front end components on my 77. Which is the better way to go, rubber or polyurethane bushings? Zip has a Deluxe Front End Kit which consists of control arm bushings, idler arm, upper and lower ball joints, and sway bars outer end bushings. They have this kit in either rubber or polyurethane. The rubber kit sells for $179.99 and the Poly kit is $199.99 but is on sale for $179.99. I am also replacing the sway bar bushings, springs and shocks as well. Anyone out there use either of these, which way should I go?

 

[Stallion]

About the bushings...there are pros and cons to each. Here is a little sum up of what you are looking at:

Polyurethane Bushings
Wear: Improved resistance to oil and heat
Appearance: Non-stock
Installaion: Can be time-consuming
Handling: Improved
Ride Quality: Slight harshness
Problems: Squeaking

Rubber (Stock) Bushings
Wear: A life span of 60,000 miles
Appearance: Stock
Installaion: Standard shop procedure
Handling: ZR-1 uses rubber bushings
Ride Quality: Softer ride
Problems: Rapid deterioration

So it's pretty much what you are aiming for. Stock-look with a nice life spad? Go rubber. But better handling, able to sacrafice stock? Go polyurethane.

And if you just grease up the polyurethanes well enough, sqeaking can be to a minimum.

I hope I've helped you with your decision. Good luck!!

TR

 

[00ducati748]

Urethane bushings

I have just replaced my front end with the same urethane (I think made by Prothane) bushings and they are very easy to install. They come apart...and they give you special synthetic lube to prevent noise. The hardest part are the upper and lower control arm bushings on the front. I did not use the rears. They are not harder to install than rubber. As far as the ride and comfort, won't know till my car is finished...I'm doing a frame up resto. There are some good facts on the web site www.prothane.com

 

[69vettester]

I got that kit with the urethane Bushings. The urethane bushings install easier than rubber, they dont need to be a pressed in fit. your front end will not be quite as loose feeling as with rubber.
Either way a front end rebuild makes a world of difference in handling and tire wear if your old system was was badly worn .
Hopes this helps..
Tom

 

[Eddie 70]

I used VetteBrakes poly kit and am happy with the results. I can`t compare the before to the after though because my car was down for about 16 months or so while I did the tranny and engine.
Something to think about, the rubber in your car has been there for at least 21 years(1982 Last C3), if it is just now getting to the point of replacement, it should last another 20 years one would think. By then I should just about be ready to retire from work, I don`t want to start this all over again. LOL.

 

[rpounds]

May I hijack your topic here for just a minute? I am wanting to rebuild portions of the front end on my '75. The A arm bushings and ball joints are about 5000 miles old. Whoever did this portion of the rebuild decided to stop there and not replace the tie rod ends or idler arm bushings (talk about Bubba). Anywho, I have not decided whether to go polyurethane or rubber. Maybe somebody with some imperical evidence will check in here with some good descriptions of what it feels like between the two and whether it is objectionable (ride wise) to run urethane.

In working under the car while it was on ramps one day, I noticed that there is a crack in the box frame between the lower A arm mounts on the driver's side. I checked with some of the old Corvette experts on frame metallurgy and they all concur that the old Corvette frame is a mild, low carbon steel, so it is weldable.

Okay, question . . . has anyone else seen problems in this area? Especially those of you that are running power steering. This does not appear to be a result of some kind of impact, such as one would see in a vehicle that has been wrecked. Rather, it more resembles a stress fracture, although that is a bit tough to determine, given the location (hard to see in there) and the fact that it has apparently been that way for some time so it has road grime on it making reading the grain structure difficult.

If anyone has seen this, how did you go about repairing it? Did you simply vee the ends and weld or did you scab some kind of reinforcement around the frame? Did you MIG weld or stick weld? If you stick welded, what rod would you recommend? 6011? 7014? Sorry for the long post, but if anyone has already accomplished this repair, I would really rather not reinvent the wheel . . .

Sorry about hijacking your post . . . we now return you to your regular programming . . .

Ron

 

[C3forME]

Ron,
Yesterday I backed the car out of the garage to work on it a bit. When I was finished I started it back up and put in drive, stepped on the gas to pull it back into the garage. I heard a snap and the left wheel went left, and the right wheel went right. I jacked up the car and went underneath to check out what had happened. The right lower control arm assembly was hanging off the car. The bracket that's welded to the cross member where the rod goes that holds the lower control arm onto the frame broke loose. It appears that the weld on the frame let go. I had my buddy who does most of mechanic work come over and take a look at it, and he couldn't believe what he was seeing. He did some research for me today with a front place that we use and they said that without seeing it they don't know for sure, but there's a 99.9% chance that the motor has to come out to repair it. What a bummer, I was just getting ready to order the front end kit, and now this. I guess now while we have it apart I'll replace the springs as well. I don't know if the crack your talking about is in the same place or not but if I were you I'd have it checked out ASAP.

 

[Stallion]

Ron,
Yesterday I backed the car out of the garage to work on it a bit. When I was finished I started it back up and put in drive, stepped on the gas to pull it back into the garage. I heard a snap and the left wheel went left, and the right wheel went right. I jacked up the car and went underneath to check out what had happened. The right lower control arm assembly was hanging off the car. The bracket that's welded to the cross member where the rod goes that holds the lower control arm onto the frame broke loose. It appears that the weld on the frame let go. I had my buddy who does most of mechanic work come over and take a look at it, and he couldn't believe what he was seeing. He did some research for me today with a front place that we use and they said that without seeing it they don't know for sure, but there's a 99.9% chance that the motor has to come out to repair it. What a bummer, I was just getting ready to order the front end kit, and now this. I guess now while we have it apart I'll replace the springs as well. I don't know if the crack your talking about is in the same place or not but if I were you I'd have it checked out ASAP.

Wow!! :eek That's terrible. I'm sorry to hear this. Good luck with fixing it up.

TR

 

[MaineShark]

I'm in a similar boat: my bushings are shot.

I'm not going to do them all right now, but I'm glad this topic came up, or I wouldn't have remembered to do the front upper arm bushings while I have the radiator out. Much easier to do them while the radiator is gone, than to try and do them after it's back in.

But I guess that means I need to decide between rubber and poly, sooner than I anticipated.

How hard are the bushings to replace? Just pull the end bolt, take the old one out, and slide the new one it? Or do I have to completely disassemble the mounting? (and deal with alignment shims and such)

Joe

 

[C3forME]

Well, after further inspection it's official, the welds on the left hand side bracket are cracked also. The bracket is still in place though unlike the one on the right hand side which is hanging on by a thread. The left one is one's underneath the power steering pump and totally unaccessable without pulling the motor. If the brackets are shot I think I'm pretty much out of luck. I checked Mid America, Ecklers, Zip Products, and Corvette Central, and none of them have these things in their catalog. I quess my only hope is going to be to try to find a wreck at a junk yard and see if they'll cut out the cross member for me so I can take the brackets off it. I'm hoping maybe a body shop will be able to do the weld job for me once I get the motor out and flat bed it there. Does anyone out there think I have a chance at saving this thing from the junk yard? I just spent a thousand dollars in restoration parts that I still haven't installed yet.

 

[rponfick]

You might try Caledonia Classic Cars in Michigan. 1-888-245-5224.

I just sent them my frame to repair the same problem.

 

[C3forME]

Well, I managed to find a place here on Long Island that has the parts to fix my front end. The place is L.I. Corvette Supply, www.licorvette.com. The parts that I need are called lower a-arm support brackets with gussett. They sell for $79.00 ea. and need to be welded onto the crossmember. So, my next step is to get the motor out of the car and find and expierenced automotive welder who knows how to get the new brackets back in the exact spot as the originals. Then I can put in the new springs, shocks, and front end components. I think while I have the motor out I am going to change the oil pump and put a new pan gasket on. This is a perfect opportunity to repaint the engine, headers, and engine compartment as well.

 

[Jack]

How hard are the bushings to replace? Just pull the end bolt, take the old one out, and slide the new one it? Or do I have to completely disassemble the mounting? (and deal with alignment shims and such)Joe

Joe:
The old ca bushing rubber has to be coerced out ... you’ll need to remove ca’s from car to get to it. Regardless how carefully you try to maintain position of tr ends etc ... regardless if you do a quick & dirty toe set to get you to a front-end shop ... you’re gonna have to have it aligned. If you haven’t done so already ... read my reply to your post.
http://corvetteactioncenter.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=29803

So, my next step is to get the motor out of the car and find and expierenced automotive welder who knows how to get the new brackets back in the exact spot as the originals

C3forME:
FYI always disconnect battery first ... before welding on any vehicle. Same applies if you have an MSD ignition or similar ... disconnect both mains.
JACK:gap

 

[MaineShark]

Joe:
The old ca bushing rubber has to be coerced out ... you’ll need to remove ca’s from car to get to it. Regardless how carefully you try to maintain position of tr ends etc ... regardless if you do a quick & dirty toe set to get you to a front-end shop ... you’re gonna have to have it aligned. If you haven’t done so already ... read my reply to your post.
http://corvetteactioncenter.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=29803

Thanks, I didn't know that the arm had to come all the way out. That certainly makes it a little harder to keep the alignment close. I'm still hoping that I can keep it close enough to correct, to allow me to drive a few miles to the alignment shop.

I'm not sure how much the bushings will need to be "coerced." Now that I have the fan shroud out and can look at them, it seems likely that they are original, due to the level of rot. I'm suprised the car is driveable, actually, with them in this sort of condition.

Joe

 

[Jack]

Thanks, I didn't know that the arm had to come all the way out. That certainly makes it a little harder to keep the alignment close. I'm still hoping that I can keep it close enough to correct, to allow me to drive a few miles to the alignment shop.Joe

Joe:
All four ball-joints are rivited-in from factory. Replacements are usually bolted back in (LOCTITE!!!). You'll find it a whole lot easier to get the old rivits out with ca's off the car ... gonna have to grind-drill-punch the old rivits out ... much easier to do on a bench ... and easier to see that new bj's go in right when ca is on bench.

Old rubber bushing is likely to have at least some spots that are still bonded to old outer shell.

Best to have ca assemblies on bench so that you can closely inspect EVERYTHING ... much easier to reassemble too ... easier to get the grease in the right place & away from wrong place ... same for loctite. Once outa car you can pressure wash em up or sandblast & paint real nice. Check the lower ca's for stripped threads where lower shock mount is ... this is common on any car after many years & many shock changes at muffler shop w/ air wrenches ... easily fixed by grinding old nut off ca & tack-welding a new nut. You ca hardly see the darn thing w/ ca on car ... much less get to it. If there's any doubt whether coil springs are good ... replace em now. Local discount auto parts store can get you new ones for about $50-$60 a pair.

And if ca is still in car AND spring is still loaded ... Don't even think about trying to change bushing ... not gonna happen. Trust me ... it'll be easier & show better results if you take the ca's outta car when you're rebuilding them.

Do as suggested ... try & keep track of the tr end thread count or set em about halfway ... put your shims back in about where they came from. Pick a dry day ... put the crappiest tires on front ... just drive it slow & easy to front-end shop ... you'll be fine.
JACK:gap

 

[ggonzal6911]

i've used both rubber and poly, everyone's always told me the poly is noisier, but i've yet to hear it. i went poly and never looked back. don't regret it one bit.

 

[C3forME]

Yep, I've heard the same thing, but I'm going poly also. I'm doing the Zip deal for $179.99, can't beat it, same price as the rubber it's a no brainer.

 

[MaineShark]

I'm going to talk to the shop, tomorrow, and find out if I can drive it there, remove and re-paint the arms, and have them re-install it all. I think there might be enough room to get at the arms, since I won't have the fan shroud any more. I'll know that better once I dry-fit everything.

Worse comes to worse, I'll park it in their lot, remove what needs to be removed, myself (don't want to pay labor on wrench-turning - sort of silly), and then let them do the suspension.

Joe