Numbers matching ?

[dav1903]

Hate to say it but I am selling my 1973 Vette and the guy looking to buy wants to know if it's numbers matching. I'm sure it is but were do I look and find out ?
Dave

 

[Vettehead Mikey]

I bet if you ask ten people what 'numbers matching' means, you'll get at least 12 different answers. It's one of those nondescript beaten-to-death terms that people love to use in attempt to look knowledgeable.

Ask him what his definition is. If he's got half a clue, he might want to look at the numbers himself to be sure the car meets his needs.

My two favourite definitions-

The number on the front tag matches the number on the rear tag. Ayup!

The number on the windshield post tag matches the number on my pink skip. That means it's my car, GFY!

 

[Dirtfarmer]

The way I understand "numbers matching" is that the moter, trans, trim tag, etc. have the correct numbers for that particular car.

It doesn't mean that those components are original.

 

[Vette79]

The way I understand "numbers matching" is that the moter, trans, trim tag, etc. have the correct numbers for that particular car.

It doesn't mean that those components are original.

I Agree...

 

[fine69]

The way I understand "numbers matching" is that the moter, trans, trim tag, etc. have the correct numbers for that particular car. It doesn't mean that those components are original.

Hmmm... now I'm confused.

My VIN matches my motor. The tranny and trim tag are correct. I've always said that my car is NON numbers matching since things like the alternator, water pump, radiator and the like are not original... oh and the heads, pistons and cam have also been replaced. Weird stuff.

I don't intend ever intend to sell it , so I guess it doesn't really matter.

 

[Dirtfarmer]

Hmmm... now I'm confused.

My VIN matches my motor. The tranny and trim tag are correct. I've always said that my car is NON numbers matching since things like the alternator, water pump, radiator and the like are not original... oh and the heads, pistons and cam have also been replaced. Weird stuff.

I don't intend ever intend to sell it , so I guess it doesn't really matter.

If a component has some type of number on it that makes it traceable, then people can use that component to validate the car. It's not just numbers and codes either. The NCRS guys can look at a piece of glass and tell if it's original or repro.

As far as numbers matching goes, you can have the correct moter in your car but if the date code in the block casting doesn't match the build date for the car, then it wouldn't be numbers matching.

A lot of time and money are spent getting the "correct numbers". Pick up a Hemmings (or check on-line) and you'll see people selling blocks. They will include the cast numbers so you can buy the correctly dated replacement block for your Corvette. You can buy that block and pay an extra few hundred dollars to have the correct info stamped on the other end of that block.

You will also find ads for generators, heads, rear ends, etc. that can all be bought to make your car numbers matching.

Personally, I think it's gone over the top, but to each their own.

I say they were built to be driven.

 

[IH2LOSE]

Best of luck with the sale

If I was selling the car and a person asked me if the car was numbers matching

First I would check the vin number of the car from the title and vin number on the car

Next I would find the area on the block where the pad is and then confirm that the number stamped into the pad match the vin number on my title and vin tag

That would lead me to belive that the motor was in the car when it left the factory.

If the number dont match I would then look for the casting number on the motor (the part number) and post that here and some one would be able to tell you what motor you actually have



I am not falmilur with the sharks but on a midyear vette there is also a spot for the vin number to put stamped into the tranny and I would check that also.

With vettes there is allot of value put on the originaility of a cars componets, the carburator,distributor,starter,alternator,heads water pump ECT.ECT. all have part numbers on them that we can check to see if its a correct part. Not only do the have part numbers but they also have date codes on them that lets us know when the part was actually built . When looking for matching numbers first we see if the part number is correct then we look for the date code to make sure the date code preceeds the date the car was built. so you could have a proper part number but an incorrect date code meaning the part was put on after the car was built .

I dont ask if a car is matching number anymore , I question what the numbers are and then confirm it myself

Matching numbers all of a sudden has a bunch of new meanings .

But the real meaning is what I outlined above

Best of luck with the sale

 

[Wayne robson]

may help

Hi Dave

When a Corvette engine is built, the engine plant knows the intended use of the engine, but not into which individual Corvette it will be installed. So when the engine is mated to a vehicle at the Corvette assembly plant, another set of numbers containing the sequential part of the vehicle identification number is stamped into the engine to key it to it's specific body and chassis. Starting during 1960 production through 1991, this vin derivative was stamped into the same pad as the suffux number. From 1992 through 1995 the location changed to a similar pad at the rear of thengine, usually on the driver's side, but sometimes on the passenger's. The location changed again starting in 1997 to a vertical pad just forward of the bell housing on the driver's side. More than any other number, it is the engine's vin derivative match to the vehicle number that constitutes matching numbers terminology.

Quoted from "Corvette Black Book 1953- 2007" by Mike Antonick

Regards
Wayne.

 

[red70vette]

That is a loaded question. It can mean many things to many people and nothing to some others. If I were you I would do the following:

Check your title for the VIN#, go to the car and check the window pillar or the dash pad for the VIN#. Do they match? If they do you have a numbers matching car.

If the buyer is concerned with matching numbers he will check the car himself prior to purchasing and check the numbers that have meaning to him. Many people ask the question but don't know what they are asking about.

 

[Vette79]

That is a loaded question. It can mean many things to many people and nothing to some others. If I were you I would do the following:

Check your title for the VIN#, go to the car and check the window pillar or the dash pad for the VIN#. Do they match? If they do you have a numbers matching car.

If the buyer is concerned with matching numbers he will check the car himself prior to purchasing and check the numbers that have meaning to him. Many people ask the question but don't know what they are asking about.

At the very least, when I think of "Numbers Matching" I think of the VIN# on the Title, The VIN# on the car, the VIN# on the block and the VIN# on the Transmission all matching and having the same VIN#. The block and transmission are very big important original components of the vehicle that I think are implied when asking or refering to "Numbers Matching".

 

[Dirtfarmer]

At the very least, when I think of "Numbers Matching" I think of the VIN# on the Title, The VIN# on the car, the VIN# on the block and the VIN# on the Transmission all matching and having the same VIN#. The block and transmission are very big important original components of the vehicle that I think are implied when asking or refering to "Numbers Matching".

Well said, I think that would be a fair definition for both buyer and seller.

 

[Lucy64]

Check your title for the VIN#, go to the car and check the window pillar or the dash pad for the VIN#. Do they match? If they do you have a numbers matching car.

These numbers have nothing to do with "numbers matching". If your vin# on the car doesn't match the vin# on your title you have more problems then concerning yourself with a numbers matching car. These numbers better always match or you have a heap of troubles. hnoes

 

[KOPBET]

FWIW, this might help.

http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/3000/matchnos.html

 

[Vette79]

Outstanding information, KOPBET.

 

[6880 Mike]

In the strictest sense, matching numbers means everything on the car is original to the car and has all the appropriate and original date codes and stampings. This would include the engine, transmission, and items such as alternators, surge tanks, AIR pumps and gobs of other things which are coded and dated. These cars exist, but it's rare when a Corvette has not had some type of replacement part during its lifetime.

For most of us, matching numbers means the engine and transmission are original to the car, are coded and stamped with their original marks, and match the VIN.

For some folks, matching numbers means any piece of original equipment, from engines to transmissions to AIR pumps to carburetors can be replaced as long as the parts are restamped with the correct codes/dates.

 

[Vette79]

I'll buy that, Mike. Good summary.

 

[Vettehead Mikey]

The point is that there is NO set definition that is universally agreed upon- just look at the variety of interpretations presented above!

If buyer and seller use two different meanings- which one is right?:L

 

[6880 Mike]

The point is that there is NO set definition that is universally agreed upon...

Exactly, and probably never will be.

...If buyer and seller use two different meanings- which one is right?:L

Right? Maybe neither; depends on interpretation, BUT the two should get together and come to a mutual understanding.

 

[craig32]

The number on the windshield post tag matches the number on my pink skip. That means it's my car, GFY!

Mike, I just gotta ask - does the 'GFY' stand for 'Good For You' or were you quoting US Vice President Dick Cheney there??

All things considered on the numbers matching debate, how many 34 year old cars do you suppose have ALL the original parts left on them? Not only that, I doubt many Vette owners would put a weaker engine in them. If they blew the original engine, you would think you'd put a stronger engine in it, eh?

Craig

 

[Vettehead Mikey]

Depends what you mean by 'original' and how far you take 'all components'

Does 'original' mean only the component that was actually on the car when it left the factory, or can it also mean an identical unit from someone else's Corvette that was found recently on a swap table at Carlisle? Can it also include the use of replacement pieces (OEM or not) that look identical to the factory piece?

Does 'all equipment' include oil filters, air filters, spark plugs, rotors etc, or just pieces with unique identifiers like the block and transmission?

Just like 'numbers matching' I don't think there's any set definition. I do know of a local '70 LT-1 that does have every piece it came with from St. Louis. The owner has all the original filters, plugs etc, etc. everything except the original fluids and air in the tires. Beautiful car.

GFY? I thought your VP Cheney said 'YFG'- Y'all fire guns!