[Press] Next Caddy CTSv To Nudge 500 HP

[ZZRider]

Do you think this might be a harbinger for GM to have an off-shoot performance division with Corvette and specialized other cars such as the CTSV, XLR, Chevy SS, maybe the GTO Judge, etc like some other companies have had in place fo years to concentrate on higher end performance offerings (AMG for Mercedes, SVT at Ford, etc)? I'm not saying I think that's the case, but I've heard some speculate about this in the past and wondered if anyone thought these changes might be in that direction. Maybe its just a way to spread the cost of R&D through the product lines. I've seen rumors about the GTO getting a 400+hp version LS6 before long also.

FYI June 2003 Motor Trend: Mercedes Benz SL600-- 2d, RWD, 5.5L V12 DOHC Twin Turbo, 500hp/590ft-lb, 0-60 4.3-4.5, 5070lbs, $125,000 (est)

 

[JBsC5]

AMG has a 612 HP Twin turbo V12 ready to go!

With all due respect....I would say that motors have been shared between Corvette and other models for many years..

Didn't bother them in the past..why should it bother them in the future..

People look at and enjoy the Corvette in many ways..so please excuse my frankness or perspective..

As long as the car is beautiful..performs with the balance and ferocity that we have come to expect..and is priced reasonably..

I don't mind who shares its parts..The bottom line is its one kick @ss ride!

Like I said..I probably have a different perspective than you gentlemen..and I do understand your statements..

Anybody remember the C3 that shared the Vega's steering wheel....now that was fuc-ed up...I totally agree! ..........yet..

Give me a 505 hp V8 Corvette weighing in at under 2950lbs priced similiar to todays car..and many enthusiasts including myself can forgive many things..

 

[cavettefan]

I have to agree with JBsC5. I think he is on point with his timeline and his analysis of the differentiation between Corvette and Cadillac. The discussion is not about BMW or M/B or whomever; however, there is a model in the industry that has worked quite well. The real point of the discussion is whether an existing model (e.g. special tuning division) would work for GM or not. A special tuning division would be a great way to maximize the application of resources to tuning projects. Having special tuning projects at each division is a duplication of effort. And, it really is a matter of power (and torque) to weight. The Caddy has a diet problem. The real task for the CTSv is whether it can mount a challenge to the M5 or the E55. It will require more than a 500 hp engine to be successful....

 

[JBsC5]

I would strongly suggest seeing the CTS V series in person..b/c at 50 grand it sure was tempting..

I think you'll find many import sports sedan owners entering the Cadillac showroom to see it.

I believe the sequential shift dual clutch technology missing from the V series will probably loose more sales than GM is aware of in the second and third year..

The volume of the much more expensive M5 updated with a 500hp V10 with SMG III ..will be shockingly higher than the prettier M5 now in existance..

Maybe the corvette comparision shouldn't include other makes...as it truly is a special car..yet todays economics require it.

Didn't the corvette always have its value pricing due to its ability to share componentry with other products in GM's line up..????????

 

[cavettefan]

JBsC5, I would agree that GM will lose sales if it is not able to offer an alternative to BMW's SMG technology. However, AMG takes a standard M/B auto tranny and "tunes" it, with quite good results. Lets see, maybe GM could take a lesson from the folks at Yank - Yank offers a Sportsman Pro that can handle 650 ft/lbs (and a Pro Yank that can handle 700 ft/lbs...).

I hope that Cadillac gets its act together with the CTSv. The photos of the new 5 series that are being published on the web are decidedly un-appealing. There is undoubtedly significant technical improvement in the new 5; however, for my two cents, visually, the new 5 is a disaster.

 

[ZZRider]

When I'm in the market for a 4-door sport sedan, I would definately check it out. I had been thinking of the Audi RS6 or M5.

I don't mind the technology/performance sharing as long as the vette stays on top of the heap. Considering the Buick Grand Nationals, I can't say the vette has always been on the top in terms of hp/acceleration (I did not use the word performance as that can be defined in many ways).

Here is a pic of the CTS-V from this months Motor Trend. I could like it, especially if they improve the drab interior.

 

[CFour]

The bottom line is they need to leave Corvette alone. Make all the high HP cars you can buy factories for. Corvette must be exclusive to survive you dont see the Northstar V8 turning up in other GM models but Cadillac do you? WHY? Because Cadillac wants to be exclusive with it. Corvette is on a path of GM doom making it a Cadillac parts bin car. I dont care if Cadillac puts an 800HP motor in the CTX as long as its a Northstar and not out of a Corvette engine bay. Once Corvette is not a "special" car but just one of the GM go fast boys its all over for me. I have been willing to pay a priemium price for Corvette because it did have a past a history and a very special exclusive platform, factory, and following behind it. I don't even like the idea that the XLR has the same floor mats as the C6. I knew we were in trouble when my 1997 C5 arrived with Olds Aurora door handles on it and a Camaro radio in the dash.

 

[JBsC5]

IThe interior and exterior of the CTS v series comes across as a totally different car than the standard CTS...which in some ways is awkward ..

Lowered with 18 inch runflats..nice rims..400hp..nice interior..right out of the box from gm..

They really did such a fine job..I'm proud to have the LS6 corvette motor in it..

Wait till you guys start hearing the magazine's go completely ga ga over this thing..and at 50 grand..its a hell of a deal too.

Never to sell the Vette for a caddy..but it sure would be a great family four door daily driver to have around !!!!

I bet the corvette enthusiasts who also need a four door family daily driver will be going nuts over this car once it hits...and have one parked next to their vette in their garage.. (sort of like a modern day 454 Chevelle SS )!!!! with BMW handling!!! & luxury.

JMO..

 

[Ol Blue]

Hmmmm, the future could be more than sharing parts,...a few years ago GM denied rumors that the Chevrolet Corvette would become a Cadillac Corvette or even become it's own Marque. Some journalists have predicted this, others won't talk about it now. Maybe it depends just how successful Caddy's foray into the two seat sporty car market is.

They need the prestige of a sports car to compete in the world market. Current Corvette owners might feel more comfortable taking their cars into a Cadillac dealership for repairs and Caddy will soon have the expertise after using Corvette basics in their lines for awhile. How convenient! C5/6 owners could take their Corvettes to the same dealership as their new 4 door family sedan then.

Personally, I hate the thought of a Caddy Corvette. I imagine that very few journalists will challenge GM on this. Anyone getting crossways with GM might get hungry. Cfour is right about Caddy getting first mention. I recently saw an article that Caddy is sharing it's platform with Corvette.

Ol Blue
Original (and still) owner of a 1963 CHEVROLET Corvette
http://www.knology.net/~corvettes/63vett.jpg

 

[CFour]

I have to say because of all this parts bin crap when the C6 vert arrives and if it has a 60K price tag im looking elsewhere. I wont pay 60K for a car thats headed for the GM Brand Mgrs. cookie cutter factory sorry GM. I will give the $64K Lexus a good hard look. I don't need or use the power of a Corvette thats not my first reason for buying Corvette. I buy Corvette for its heritage and its exclusivity with out that its just another GM fleet car to me.

 

[corvettecrazy]

The bottom line is they need to leave Corvette alone...
exclusive to survive you dont see the Northstar V8 turning up in other GM models but Cadillac do you? ... Corvette is on a path of GM doom making it a Cadillac parts bin car. I dont care if Cadillac puts an 800HP motor in the CTX as long as its a Northstar and not out of a Corvette engine bay. Once Corvette is not a "special" car but just one of the GM go fast boys its all over for me. ... I knew we were in trouble when my 1997 C5 arrived with Olds Aurora door handles on it and a Camaro radio in the dash.

once again you are so right, cadillac has the power and supplies to make their own performance engine worth of making high Hp, they really dont need to be making corvette their spare parts. Caddy can make all the power they want and make similar suspension but when they take exact parts from the corvette and put them in their car and call it something else corvette is going to lose it speciality

 

[cavettefan]

CFour, but what if the C6 (coupe or convertible) is priced at, say, $50K? And it has the F55 suspension standard? And OnStar. And, and, and.... Would you still go looking at a Lexus?

The real debate is whether parts sharing is a way to leverage resources and allow the individual brand designers to concentrate on what makes the brand great. Take the H2 for example. Underneath the sheetmetal, it is a collection of parts from GM trucks. However, the designers have a real hit on their hands in the way that they have packaged everything together. The real question is whether the Corvette designers can come up with a package that is an extension of all that is great about the Corvette. I personally believe that the C5 was such an evolution over the C4. I think that the market would bear out my opinion as well. Lets see what happens with the C6. If nothing else, there is going to be a huge amount of interest developed by the time the production version C6 is debuted.

 

[Edmond]

I personally don't like the idea of Corvette's being so similar to Caddy's. People aren't going to look at a power to weight ratio when they're buying. Torque makes a car go, but HP sells cars! Those prospective buyers are going to look at HP and see Caddy or Vette'. Then they realize that the Caddy has more HP and it can seat 5 people! Plus the Caddy doesn't have to be left home in the winter snow.

I think the Corvette has gotten too mainstream and GM is using the mystique of the car to sell it. With the current Z06 as evidence, people will pay for performance and they will sacrifice for performance.

GM has this attitude: we build it, you buy it. That's what doomed the F-bodies. Look at Ford, they actually listened to the customers and did so many things with their lineup.

 

[cavettefan]

Edmond, I think that you will see the Corvette keeping ahead in the HP department (at least on published specifications). Whether there is an actual difference remains to be seen - look at recent history with the LS1.... The general consensus was that there was very little difference on the dyno whether the LS1 was in a Corvette or a Camaro/Firebird.

However, I think that there is more than just HP that contributes to the popularity of the Z06. It really is at a higher level of performance than the Coupe or Convertible. A Coupe or Convertible can be upgraded to get to the same (or higher) level of performance; but "off-the-shelf", the Z06 is at a higher level. It still is the total "package" that will determine the popularity of the brand.