Project 59 exhaust system

[3TT3V]

So, John,,,,do you ever go to the "Y" cruize-in in Oak Hill on Saturday nights?

 

[John Mcgraw]

You know, I ought to since I only live a couple of miles from the Y, but I just never seem to get over there. I guess I would rather just work on cars than eat when I am hungry! I tend to be not much of a socializer, and would rather just hang out at with my few good friends and swap lies at the shop. If you are ever over in my part of town, feel free to drop by. I live just short of Circle C Ranch off of Brodie.

Regards, John McGraw

 

[IH2LOSE]

John

The project looks outstanding.The quaility of your work shows your a true craftsman.Its truley a pleasure for me to veiw the photos.I can see the hours,days,months you have invested in the project(not to mention the money) and I also understand that you do all the work yourself,I sincerly canot put it into words my admeration of the work you have done on this project (including the the body dolly you made)

Great job and you should be very proud

PS whats with the oil pan is that custom also

 

[John Mcgraw]

Larry,

I appreciate the kind words. I do take a lot of pride in my work, and it is nice to have other people comment on my craftmanship. I now have the body color-sanded and polished out, so the body should be ready to drop back on the chassis in the next couple of weeks. The oil pan is a stock cast aluminum pan that I have ground smooth and polished out to a mirror shine. Like all the other aluminum parts, I have clear-coated it to make for little maintenance.
I finally broke down a bought into the power sanding system for color sanding, and I wish that I had tried it two years ago! I have painted a lot of cars in my life, but the depth of gloss of this paint job, makes every other job I have done pale by comparison. I bought a Hutchins waterbug III water feed sander and outfitted it with 4000 grit Mirka sanding discs, and it eliminates the need for rubbing compound completely! After the 4000 grit final sanding, you just polish with some 3M Finess-it polish on a wool pad and you are done. I am just old-school and pretty hard headed, and figured that power color-sanding was a recipie for disaster, but I was wrong! As long as Lacquer was the only paint that I shot, hand sanding was not that big of a deal, but color-sanding single stage urethane by hand was a lot of work. I can probably now color-sand in one hour what used to take me all day, and get a better job to boot!
Regards, John McGraw

 

[Tom Bryant]

Larry,

I bought a Hutchins waterbug III water feed sander and outfitted it with 4000 grit Mirka sanding discs, and it eliminates the need for rubbing compound completely! After the 4000 grit final sanding, you just polish with some 3M Finess-it polish on a wool pad and you are done. I am just old-school and pretty hard headed, and figured that power color-sanding was a recipie for disaster, but I was wrong!
Regards, John McGraw

I have been wanting to try one of those for years. I remember seeing old assembly line pics of the GM guys using a similar system way back in the early days.

So you're saying you only use the 4000 grit from start to finish? How does it do on the convex areas and into the concave areas? Is it random orbital like a DA? Got pictures? Are there more agressive wet discs available for regular sanding too?

Thanks
Tom

 

[John Mcgraw]

Tom,

It is a DA sander just like any other with a 6" pad. The real difference is in the water feed. It siphons water out of a gallon milk jug as you sand, and a gallon of water will last a couple of hours of sanding. The vibration on this sander is almost non-exsistent and the muffler on the exhaust makes it super quiet! It is almost $200 if you shop around a little, but is well worth the price.
You can buy hook-it discs in grits down to the double digits, and up to about 4000. For color sanding the only two discs you will use are 2000 and 4000, and you will only use 2000 for a paint job with a lot of orange peel. You can either use the hook-it discs directly on the bottom of the hard pad that comes on the sander for keeping surfaces flat when doing normal sanding, or you can put a foam interface pad between the pad and the sanding discs to allow color sanding without cutting too much on curved surfaces. There were only a couple of spots that I did not feel confortable sanding on my 59, including the concave area between the tail lights and the trunk lid. It comforms very well to most curved sufraces. With the use of the 4000 discs you can skip the compounding and go straight to the polish step. I don't know about you, but most of the time that I break through the paint, it is because I went over an edge with compound and not by sanding. I felt so comfortable with the polish and the wool pad, that I did not even tape up all my edges like I usually do with compound. I will try to send you some pics tonight when I get home.
Regards, John McGraw

 

[Ron Miller]

Tom,

It is a DA sander just like any other with a 6" pad. The real difference is in the water feed. It siphons water out of a gallon milk jug as you sand, and a gallon of water will last a couple of hours of sanding.

I felt so comfortable with the polish and the wool pad, that I did not even tape up all my edges like I usually do with compound. I will try to send you some pics tonight when I get home.
Regards, John McGraw

John, would love to see some pictures posted here! Thanks!

 

[John Mcgraw]

Okay guys,
Here are some pics of the sander. The sander comes with a semi-rigid pad that you can just attach the velcro paper to, as well as a 3/8" thick pad that has hooks on one side and loops on the other. You just stick it to the pad on the bottom of the sander and then attach the sanding paper to it. It adds a nice cushion to the sander that will let it conform to curves and edges. also shown are two different types of abrasives, the conventional paper-thin waterproof sandpaper (1500 grit shown), and the Mirka 4000 grit Abralon pad. this abrasive pad is actually a woven fabric that is impregnated with 4000 grit abrasive and mounted to a 1/4" open cell foam. This pad adds to the cushion of the interface pad and will float over almost anything. 3M also has a Trizact pad which is the same grit as 4000 and is reputed to be even better, but I dicided to use the Mirka product. I may switch the the trizact discs in the future, but I have enough discs to color sand at least 6 more cars, so it will be a while! the water just feeds down through the holes in the pad and keep it lubricated with water while you sand. Of course, you can use the sander dry as well.
http://www.villagephotos.com/pubbrowse.asp?selected=925970

Regards, John McGraw

 

[Tom Bryant]

I gotta have one of those.That would have saved me many days if not weeks on my last black laquer job I did.

Thanks John.

 

[Tom Bryant]

I was just in town and asked NAPA. They quoted me $279. I checked Ebay and found $202.

Here's the listing.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=2477705383&category=63693&sspagename=WD1V

Tom

 

[John Mcgraw]

Tom,

That is about the best you are going to do. I paid a little under $200 for mine from Toolparadise.com. Hutchins is the only people making this tyoe of sander and this keeps the price high, I'm sure. The quality of this sander however, will blow you away! The discount brands of DA sanders are nowhere near it.
Regards, John McGraw

 

[IH2LOSE]

Hey John I have some more questions here.

What trans did you use and why did you pick it?I plan on using a 454 LS6 performance crate motor from the earley 90's that I have allready Its a pretty stout motor

How heavey was your frame when you purchased it?

Allthough I dont have a car yet I am working out the details to purchase the frame and pick it up at carlilse in august so I am trying to figure out how many guys would be needed to lift it onto my car trailer.

What are you using for a radiator?

 

[IH2LOSE]

Also what else did you get from them ? I am getting the stage one frame and hoping to get the c4 suspention while I am at carlilse from some of the other vendors

 

[John Mcgraw]

Larry,

I used the 4L60E trans. The main reason that I used it was the fact that it is already interfaced to the ECM or engine computer. The torque converter is locked up by the computer and the overdrive is also controlled by it. I really wanted to use a overdrive trans since this is going to be a highway car, and fuel economy will be an added plus with the small tank. Other people who have done this conversion report fuel economy numbers of around 22-23 miles per gallon. My gauges also read the pulse output from the speed sensor to determine speed. I would ecpect that a TH400 or even a 700R4 trans would be a good choice behind a big block. You can use the 700 trans pretty easily with a relay or a manual switch to activate the converter lock-up. You just have to mount an additional switch at the brake pedal to de-activate the lock-up when you hit the brakes. The limiting factor for performance is the size of tire that will fit within the wheelwells, so It did not take long for me to figure out that building a stronger powerplant was counterproductive, so I settled on the late model computer controlled setup that would give good performance and be a pleasure to drive. Obviously, the aluminum block LS engine also offers a dramatically lower weight than a cast iron engine (especially a big block), and will yeild a more balanced car with a lot less weight on the front end. That big block is still a pretty awesome engine, and will produce plenty of smiles per gallon!

I bought only the stage 1, since I was planning on grinding and polishing my suspension components anyway. I bought a nice, clean 92 front and rear suspension for less than $1000. With that big block engine I would seriously consider a Dana 44 rear rather than the Dana 36. The 36 will live behind the power from that engine, but only if you do not thrash it too hard. I thought about this on my car, but by that time I had already decided not to upgrade the LS1 engine to LS6 specs, so I went ahead with the D36. Expect to pay about a $800 to $1000 premium for the D44 rear.
Go ahead and get him to set up the front and rear sway bars, since the adder is fairly small and will take away one other little thing that you won't have to fabricate. I wish I did, since I invested more time in it than I thought I would! I would guess that the frame weighs about 300 lbs, and two strong guys can carry it around, but I wouldn't want to carry it too far!

Regards, John McGraw

 

[IH2LOSE]

Thanks John I will take your advice on the front and rear swaybars .He had asked me about a special hardware kit ? Should I get that also and how bout the coil overs

You know I love to work on cars but I have not been able to work on the computer controlled cars and thats what kept me away from the LS1 because of the fuel injection and computer.

Since I took my first ride in a big block vette I just cant get enough of the feel of being planted in my seat,so that was why I chose a big block.

I guess the 700r will be my trans of choice.I will also look for a dana 44 rear.

I guess your going digital with your gauges Ill have to figure what I am doing with that prior to ordering the transmition.

THANKS AGAIN !
and keep up the great work youll be hearing alot from me in the next few week.

I was thinking about how much work I could have be done allready on the frame (even with out having a body DUH!) so I am going to order it now for a pick up in carlilse

 

[John Mcgraw]

I would go with the hardware kit he offers. It is real hard to find 10.8 and stronger metric bolts in the sizes you will need, and his hardware kit is a good value. Unfortunately, they will all be in black oxide finish, since it is hard to find aftermarket high strength metric bolts in plated finishes. I made the decision to convert almost every bolt on the suspension to English fractional sizes so that I could use those fine looking high strength stainless bolts from Totally Stainless. They sure look nice after they are all polished to a mirror finish, but It runs into some real money. I think that I have in excess of $500 dollars in my chassis fasteners, not to mention all the time that I spent boring out the bushings to fractional sizes and installing Helicoils in all the threaded holes. I am using stainless bolts on the rest of the car as well, but the standard strength stainless bolts are not that expensive. The chassis and drivetrain were the only places that I used the high strength bolts. You can buy the same coilover shocks from Summit or Jegs for less money, and Mike will tell you what model # and what spring rates to order. Keep in mind that the D36 and D44 mounting are slightly different, and you really need to settle on which you will use before he fabricates the chassis. He tells me that a D44 centersection can be made to work on a D36 mounting but it is not ideal. You probably want to quiz him on this issue. Regards, John McGraw

 

[IH2LOSE]

Thanks

I also wanted to go stainless steel fastners on the project.
But for the money he is asking I will get his entire fastener kit to get started
Anything else I need to be thinking about prior to placing my order?

1-type of motor Chevy 454 (I have one allready)

2-type of trans 700r (need to figure out digital output for spedo or mecanical)Anything you want to share with my on the gauges)

3-type of rear axle Dana44 ( I just noticed there was an upgrade price for this)

4-Front and rear sway bars YES





Thanks again Maybee you should change the name of this thread to Johns outline of how to build a hybred car.

 

[John Mcgraw]

I was going to use Dakota Digital for instrumentation, but decided that this was not the look I wanted. I ended up with analog gauges from Classic Instruments, and am real pleased with the gauges. I will be posting some pics of the completed instrument panel as soon as some parts get back from the anodizing shop. I used the All American series of gauges, and they just blew my socks off with their style and workmanship. They can convert a pulse out put from a late model trans, or can convert a standard spedo output to a pulse.
Regards, John McGraw

 

[IH2LOSE]

Thanks again John


I will be looking for your post on the gauges

 

[IH2LOSE]

John its me again.What size of tires and rims are you running ? have you test fit the body to the frame with the wheels and tires yet.?

And this dana 44 rear is not so easy to find Plenty of 36's not too many 44's