Project 59 exhaust system

[John Mcgraw]

Larry,

Those wheels are 8.5 X 17 C5 front wheels on all four corners with 245-45-ZR17 Faulken tires. This is about the largest wheel and tire combo that will fit within the rear wheelwells without major work. I had to sand some of the flange off the rear wheel reinforcements as it was! The pre-88 rear suspensions are a little narrower and may need a little more offset in the wheels, or a spacer to avoid rubbing on the inside of the wheel tubs. This, as well as several other reasons, is a good reason to hunt for suspensins from only 88 and later cars.
D44 rear ends are fairly hard to find, and that is why they bring close to a $1000 premium, but it will last a lot longer behind that monster bigblock! The automatic trans takes a lot of strain off the rear, but I don't think that I would be comfortable with a D36 behind that much torque.

Regards, John McGraw

 

[John Mcgraw]

Larry,

Speaking of D44 rears, look what was listed on Ebay today!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=42609&item=7909918016&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

It is even on your side of the country, so freight won't be too bad!

 

[IH2LOSE]

Larry,

Those wheels are 8.5 X 17 C5 front wheels on all four corners with 245-45-ZR17 Faulken tires. This is about the largest wheel and tire combo that will fit within the rear wheelwells without major work. I had to sand some of the flange off the rear wheel reinforcements as it was! The pre-88 rear suspensions are a little narrower and may need a little more offset in the wheels, or a spacer to avoid rubbing on the inside of the wheel tubs. This, as well as several other reasons, is a good reason to hunt for suspensins from only 88 and later cars.
D44 rear ends are fairly hard to find, and that is why they bring close to a $1000 premium, but it will last a lot longer behind that monster bigblock! The automatic trans takes a lot of strain off the rear, but I don't think that I would be comfortable with a D36 behind that much torque.

Regards, John McGraw

THANK YOU AGAIN!

My deal is done with Mike and payment has been sent.I do have a lead on a 44 rear end 2 hrs north of me with a broken wing .I have to get a picture of it to see were the wing is snapped off for sure if its useable it will be a the deal of the century for me it is priced way under the money.Do you have any photos of where you had to trim your wings?
I also was reassured that a 700R can live behind my motor Allthought the majority of the folks are recomending a turbo 400 (I have to have the overdrive of the 700R to make it a nice cruiser)

I sincerely want to thank you again for posting the pictures of your frame.Had it not been for that I would not of ordered my frame until I got a car.And also the timing was perfect for me to have it shipped to carlilse saving a ton of money on shipping.

i will keep an eye on the ebay auction.

as for the wheels I really want to make good use of the wheels and tires off my C5 So I really want to use the larger rear tires (this way I can get a bigger set for the C5 with out waste) 67heaven gave me the phone number to the fellow who made his flares and I have a call into him to see if he has anything that could work for me. Ill be in touch

Larry

 

[John Mcgraw]

I will try to snap some pics of where I trimmed my wings off at. There is no reason to have any of the wing since it now serves no mounting function. I trimmed mine as close as I could get to the center cover and still have it look nice. The flares for the rear wheelwells depend on which year you end up buying. There is a company that makes widened fenders for the 58-60 quarters, but I know of nobody making widened fenders for a 61-62 car. The ones for the 58-60 cars are real beautiful pieces and are more like the ones that Bob used on his 67 rather than just being flares. I have a source to get them for about $500 for a pair. Now the fun starts!!!!

Regards, John McGraw

 

[wapaugh]

John - Larry,

You guys keep this dialog going. I'm getting some great advice and ideas here. Many thanks to both of you.

Wes

 

[John Mcgraw]

Larry,

Here is a link to an image that shows where I trimmed the bat wings off at. I trimmed them down to the reinforcing rib that runs around the rear cover, and then shaped what was left over to look like it was built that way. You will notice that I milled away the old mounting pads for the rear spring and then sloped the entire rib all the way to the edge. I kept this concept throughout the front and rear suspension, If a part was no longer used by the new suspension, then remove it! It made for a real clean installation.
Regards, John McGraw

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-8/339303/P0000794.JPG

 

[IH2LOSE]

Again spectacular work.
It looks like it was built to sit in that frame.Hard to belive what was sticking off it before you got started.

Thanks again I cant wait to get some parts to get started.

 

[IH2LOSE]

John - Larry,

You guys keep this dialog going. I'm getting some great advice and ideas here. Many thanks to both of you.

Wes

Wes

I was over in the c4 for sale section and seen your request for a suspention.Did you get one?

I assume your going to building one also.

Did you get a frame yet. tell us about what your planning

 

[wapaugh]

Larry

I haven't bought suspension parts yet, and am waiting to see what I end up with before I order the frame. If I can find C5 parts for a good price, I may go that route.

I have a vision of an end product that will be similar to John's 59 (which is why I am watching his progress so closely), except for the color. My car is originally black/ siver coves/ red interior but this combination doesn't appeal to me at all. I'm leaning towards either turquois or saphire w/ white coves & tan leather. Drivetrain will be LS1/ 6 speed.

I'm running a bit behind because at one point I had flip-flopped and decided to restore the car to original. I went so far as to order about $7K worth of restoration parts from Corvette Central. Luckily for me, they were out of stock on one item and didn't ship the rest of the order so I was able to cancel. About this same time, we had a fire in the house. We (read: my wife) decided that while we were having the renovation done it would be a good time to do some remodeling. I actually just spent my SRIII money on wood flooring (Wah!).

Other than the above, I'm sort of making it up as I go. The car has been disassembled and I'm ready to lift the body and start stripping paint. I would really like to know a bit about your car and what you are planning, too.

Regards,

Wes

 

[IH2LOSE]

I would really like to know a bit about your car and what you are planning, too.

Wes

I dont have a car yet a few good leads but no car in hand.I have been planning this build for a while and was waiting to purchase a frame until I got a car.After seeing all of the work John did on his frame I decided I better purchase a frame right away to get started.

I plan on building a 61/62 with the SR111 frame (I ordered one and will be picking it up in carlilse)

I plan on using a ls6 454 performance crate engine. ( I have one allready)
and did not want a computer controlled engine that I am not knowledgable enough to trouble shoot

700R trans (on order I am just waiting on them to clean and boil the case so I can have it painted the color of the car before the build)

I origanally wanted to paint the car Electron blue with a white interiourBut my family has perswaded me to go with yellow to match our other vette. So yellow it would be.

I would have went the C5 suspention but was aafraid of the computer.If you are going with a computer controlled motor I would suggest getting a C5's running gear.

Good luck

 

[IH2LOSE]

PS

Theres alot more to it.But it would take me forever to type it.I have a folder probably about 1" thick with notes,pictures,catalogs,magazine articles,emails, that I have been collecting over the last 2 years.

I had created a action plan with a budjet on building this car and it seems the only price that did not increase was the cost of the tube frame from SR111 motor sports. So I am revising the action plan and installing the correct cost's

 

[IH2LOSE]

Hey John


I have more questions .

beside the strenght of the dana 44 and a larger case . Is there any other difference.The reason I asked is because I thought I had to purchase only an entire rear suspention including the dana 44 third member.(Meaning the entire rear suspention from a 88 to 96 stick car)

I was talking to a wrecking yard today and he explained I need to purchase an entire dana 36 rear suspention PLUS a dana 44 third member. use the dana 36 suspention and remove the dana 36 third member and sell it then install the dana 44 third member in place of the 36.

They explained the 44 was wider then the 36 ?

Any input? I dont want to keep calling mike on the phone or else he wont be able to finish Rich L frame or mine

Thanks again Larry

 

[John Mcgraw]

Larry,

I can't say for sure, but I have been told that you can change the center of a D36 to a D44 without changing the overall width of the rear end.
Regards, John McGraw

 

[Tyler Townsley]

A friend of mine is doing a simular project using c4 running gear with a tube frame and we are having problems getting the rear to 'adjust' down to the correct height. We spent part of today with Gary at VetteBrakes trying to get a rear composit spring that will work. I will be posting some pictures as he has some real unique things he is doing with his. He is using an aftermarket body that is real lite and we fiigure the car will come in at less than 2800 lbs when it is done. I notice you are using coil overs on yours any reason why and who made them. He is using a 4l60e with the c beam. He has tried both the 10 and 12 in bolts but the ride height is still 2 in above that of a stock 93 which is where the suspension came from. WE have tried rolling the car and adding weight but it hardly moves. Is there something else in the geometry of a c4 rear that will prevent the rear irs from compressing down it the rear weight is too light?

As soon as I get some pictures I will start a separate thread on it but right now we are still trying to get the ride height correct. Vette Brakes is only a quick drive away and they are working with him to be able to know what to supply others that are going down this road.

Unique items include:
NO doors that open, Caddy tail lights molded in, MB headlights molded in, ZO6 style rear wheel scoop, round wheel wells with flairs, built in roll bar hoops that are welded to teh frame, no top, custom windshield. He uses home made templates to get his form right so I will post picts of those too. He used a cut up plastic water pail as a form for a headrest on the rear deck. Cut it to size and coated it with wax then molded over it popped right off when cured. Worked great.

Tyler

 

[IH2LOSE]

As soon as I get some pictures I will start a separate thread on it

Tyler I cant wait to see the pictures.

What kind of a frame did he use.I recently seen a frame that use the C4 suspention with the mono spring instead of the coil overs.The SR111 frame uses the coil overs instead of the spring.Take a look at the pictures John had posted in his first post here Do the frames look the same.

Good Luck

 

[IH2LOSE]

Tyler invite him to the forum so we (actually I ) can pic his brain on his project.He has a real cool idea with the caddy tail lights.I was looking at cars with leds tailights to find something I may be able to graft in.

 

[Tyler Townsley]

He does not have a computer. I hope to take him to the local library and get him on that way. He is an old hot rodder and has a 55 chev with some body mods he did. He had a 41 chev that was real radical that he sold not too long ago. I think the headlites are real cool. THey have the turn signals built in the top of the assembly so he is doing away with the ones on the body.

Tyler

 

[John Mcgraw]

Hi Tyler,

There is nothing in the C4 geometry that will keep the suspension from compressing other than the bushings. You may have to loosen the bolts to allow the bushings to rotate. They will have taken a set with being at full extension for an extended period. You have to remember, that original style bushings do not rotate at all, but rather just twist kind of like a spring. If you rotate the suspension arm too far, the bushing might rotate a little and then you would have to loosen all the bolts on the bushings and let them return to their normal position. Obviously, this is not an issue with replacement urethane bushings, since they rotate in the urethane. My car has urethane bushings throughout, but not because I wanted them. I would much rather have had rubber bushings, but there is no replacement bushings available for C4 suspensions other than the urethane ones. I had to remove the originals to grind and polish the suspension, so I was stuck with the urethane. The factory never intends you to service the bushings, and just reccomends that you throw away the part suspension part and buy a brand new one when the bushings fail!
I went with Coilover shocks for this very reason. I wanted to be able to adjust the ride height, spring rate, and damping to meet my needs. I have a friend over in Sequin Tx who builds a real nice rectangular tube chassis, but he still uses a tranverse leaf spring, and that was not what I wanted. I can adjust the rride height down to where there is only 3" of clearance under the frame rails, or as much as 10"! I would expect that the finished car will come in right at 2800 pounds as well, even though loaded down with some of the comforts of life like air conditioning. This is the big problem that I see with the leaf spring, how do you suspend a 2800 pound car with a spring that was originally designed for a 3500 poind car and still retain a good ride quality?
If I find my car rides to stiff, I can always just throw a lighter set of coils on the shocks. Of course, the WOW factor was also taken into account when making the decision, and it is hard to beat the looks of the coilover setup.
Regards, John McGraw

 

[richscorvettes]

Springs

I saw the reference to the Vette Brake monoleaf springs and thought I might offer a couple of things from our experience. We used their springs for both the front and rear on our 62 with the Newman C4 conversion. Even though the springs come out of the same mold there can be a difference in the arch of the spring. When I spoke to Gary at Vette Brakes I asked for the lowest arch they had as well as spring rates that would work well with a 2,800 lb car vs the stock C4. The front worked out fine (ride height and spring rate) and the rear spring worked fine for the ride height. It was a little over-sprung though so we exchanged that spring for a lower spring rate (330 lbs) which rides much better. I also used the Bilstein Sport shocks which Newman has valved to work with his setup. The ride, and especially the handling, have worked out as I had hoped.

Since we like to do something different with each project we decided to go with the coil-overs on our 63 project for the same reasons John mentioned. It's hard to pass up their appearance, race style and adjustability. I did hear from a friend of mine, who has coil-overs (not sure of which make) on his street rod, and he said they tend to rattle when hitting bumps. I hope that's just an issue with his and not common to all coil-overs.

Rich Lagasse

 

[JohnZ]

I went through the same thing when I built my tube-frame Grand Sport, which used C4 suspension and brakes and only weighed 2340# wet; no leaf springs on the planet that would work satisfactorily with a car that light, so I used Aldan adjustable aluminum shocks/coil-overs at all four corners in order to tune my own ride height, spring rate, and damping settings.