Project Anti-Ken-A Very Low Budget 350 build

[Tom Bryant]

Update

I have the short block finisned for the most part. I got tired of trying to sand/grind/wire brush the rust out of the pits in that 1972 pan so I took it to the sand blaster yesterday. Summit has new stock replacement pans for around $25. bare or 2 bucks more powder coated in orange. It was temping but getting the blast job will save me 20 bucks and this is supposed to be a low budget build. Besides I have the paint already.

I was going to take a picture of the balancer repair sleeve before I put it on but forgot. It is a thin sleeve with a lip on the end and is actually smaller in diameter than the balancer snout. I put it in very hot water to expand it some and then bumped it on squarly with a block of wood and a hammer. I set the balancer outdoors over night also to chill and contract. I could actually see the sleeve expanding as the snout passed through it. No way that will ever come off by itself. Here is the finished product.

 

[Tom Bryant]

Here is the balancer bolt and washer from Chevrolet. The bolt head is drilled for safety wire if you are going to use it for severe duty such as endurance rading.

 

[Tom Bryant]

Installing the balancer is easily done without the expense of buying or renting a balancer installer. All you need is a longer bolt with the right threads. Put a couple of washers and a larger nut or 2 on to take up the space and screw it into the crank pressing the balancer on. Usually one time to the end of the threads will get you close enough to use the regular balancer bolt and washer to finish the job. Once seated home remove the bolt. Install your crank pulley and reinstall. Block the crank from turning with a block of wood and torque to 60 lbs.

 

[Tom Bryant]

Oil pump pickup drop

Next is figuring out the correct possition for the oil pump pickup in the new pump. It seems that about 3/8" off the bottom of the pan is preferred by most builders. Here's how I measured it.

First I measured how far forward from the rear pan wall the lowest point of the pickup would be. Then I laid a straight edge, a level in this case, across the pan at that location and used a combo square to measure the distance from the pan rail to the bottom of the pan.

 

[Tom Bryant]

Next I inverted the combo square to set flush against the pan rail on the block. I inserted the pickup into the new pump that is mounted and snugged down on the rear main cap but left it out far enough that I could still move it. I measured down 3/8" from the combo square to the pickup at it's lowest point (highest here with the engine upside down) and moved the pickup position to the required measurement. I then bumped it firmly home in the pump and rechecked it.

I then marked the pump and pickup with a marker so I could be sure of it's position later. I will now remove the pump and have the pickup spot welded to the pump for secrity's sake. This is a common safety measure and even though small blocks come from the factory with just the pickup pressed in and very rarely have a problem I think it's a good thing to do since It's open and available.

Next I will do the forever promised cost summery of the short block build. I am as curious as most of you as to what I have in this so far. Then I will start on the heads.

 

[Jack]

Summit has new stock replacement pans for around $25. bare or 2 bucks more powder coated in orange. It was temping but getting the blast job will save me 20 bucks and this is supposed to be a low budget build. Besides I have the paint already.

Tom: The $25 summit pan is likely a taiwan job. Your OE chevy pan is a better pan & will probably fit much better than the $25 new one.
JACK:gap

 

[Tom Bryant]

No doubt you're right Jack. I had to "clearance" that $7. chrome timing cover to clear the water pump legs.

 

[Tom Bryant]

$822.53

Well here is the cost summary. The only way I could get it to come out like I wanted was to attach it as a document. Just click on the attachment to open it. I tried to copy/paste but it got all scrambled up for some reason. A computer wiz I'm not.


Actually I don't think I'm doing too bad. The only thing not figured is the oil pan sand blasting but most people won't have as rusty of an old pan as I do.

Tom

 

[Tom Bryant]

Here is that Fel-Pro one piece pan gasket. It comes with all new bolts and star washers. Those blue things you screw into the 4 corners of the block when doing the job from under the car. Then you slip the pan up over them and they hold the pan in place while you get some bolts started. The pouch of RTV sealer is from the front cover set.

 

[Tom Bryant]

Here's the gasket laying on the engine so you can see how nce it all fits without worrying about the ends and sides sealing. It goes on completely dry with only a dab of rtv on the corners where the rear main cap and front cover meets the block.

The bad news is that the pan blasting sort of come out like I feared it would. The pitting was deep and ugly but even worse it is impossible to get all of the sand out of the baffle area. I was afraid of that but thought that washing, pressure washing and air blasting would get it all. No such luck.It just keeps coming from somewhere. New pan time. Not worth the risk.

 

[Ken]

Look how nicely that thing fits. That I could screw it up is an indication of how incompetent I am.

We didn't have a one-piece gasket available when I pulled my pan, so I used a regular four-piece set and now I think I small leak with that one.

_ken

 

[JohnZ]

Tom, the new pan you get can affect whether your gasket seals at the front or not. An original (pre-'75) pan has a 2-1/4" front seal radius and takes the "thin" front seal (and the Fel-Pro #34509 gasket), and '75 or later production or service pans (including the still-available GM #359937, the only Corvette pan still available from GM) have a 2-3/8" front seal radius for the "thick" front seal and take the Fel-Pro #34510 gasket.

 

[bossvette]

Tom, the new pan you get can affect whether your gasket seals at the front or not. An original (pre-'75) pan has a 2-1/4" front seal radius and takes the "thin" front seal (and the Fel-Pro #34509 gasket), and '75 or later production or service pans (including the still-available GM #359937, the only Corvette pan still available from GM) have a 2-3/8" front seal radius for the "thick" front seal and take the Fel-Pro #34510 gasket.

Thanks John
I learned something today, perhaps that is why my Vette "marks its territory"
I have a Moroso pan, Edelbrock aluminum timing cover and was thinking of trying the one piece gasket; Do you think it will help?
thanks
Craig sr

 

[Tom Bryant]

John,
Yes, I bought the 34509 to use with the '72 pan. Even the cheap $25. Summit powder coated pan uses the thick front seal.

If I understand this right the 359937 is the current offering of the '57-'62 trap door (5 qt pan capacity) only modified from it's origional configuration to use the thick '75 and newer front pan seal? I guess I hadn't thought about how it was different from the old ones since I have 2. I have an extra origional off of my extra '61/270 sitting in a crate but hate to use it on the truck.

Since you are extremely Z28 literate here is something else I've been thinking about. I used to sell a lot of 302 Z28 pans back in my Chevy parts days. They had nice side baffles that kept the oil from climbing the side of the pan on hard corners and were very popular in use and price with the Ft. Wayne area bulders. The origional part number I think was 3974251 and was also used on Sp. H/Per. 350s through '74.

Is the currant GM Performance Parts listing of part number 360450 Z28 pan the same pan or an updated version using the thick front seal? Or is it something else altogether? I can't find any GM Performance Parts dealer that lists it as anything more than Z28 pan. It would help if they gave a more thorough description.

I may have to return the 509 and get a 510 pan gasket. An extra qt. capacity would be nice though.

Thanks,
Tom

 

[Jack]

Tom:

The pitting was deep and ugly but even worse it is impossible to get all of the sand out of the baffle area. I was afraid of that but thought that washing, pressure washing and air blasting would get it all. No such luck.It just keeps coming from somewhere. New pan time. Not worth the risk.

UHHHH ... for some reason I'd figured it was rusty outside ... only outside. Yep, it'd be tough to get the grit outa the baffling.

About 2 years back, I got a really nice kicked out sump 7 qt pan from these guys. It is a Taiwan copy of a Moroso P/N 20190 … dimensionally same as 20190 … sump about 8 ¼” deep and has trap doors. Although Taiwan, it actually fit real well (with later thick seal) and came with the correct pickup … all for $54 plus $15 shipping. Summit has similar Taiwan pan for about $75 but no pickup. Also, same folks had OE type pans (also Taiwan) for about $20-$25.
Here’s their current ebay listing for same pan I got
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2461104278
Here’s their current ebay listing for a Taiwan OE-type pan
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2461104254
Their deal worked for me, you might give it a whirl. 2 years back the Contact info was:

Heather or Shaun at
Auto Sound And Performance
818 Lee Road 292
Smiths AL 36877
Abad71camaro@AOL.COM

JACK:gap

 

[Tom Bryant]

It was just rusty on the outside but that sand went everywhere. I'll check out that Ebay listing. It would be a good idea to have extra capacity with the high volumn pump.


Tom

 

[JohnZ]

John,
Yes, I bought the 34509 to use with the '72 pan. Even the cheap $25. Summit powder coated pan uses the thick front seal.

If I understand this right the 359937 is the current offering of the '57-'62 trap door (5 qt pan capacity) only modified from it's origional configuration to use the thick '75 and newer front pan seal? I guess I hadn't thought about how it was different from the old ones since I have 2. I have an extra origional off of my extra '61/270 sitting in a crate but hate to use it on the truck.

Since you are extremely Z28 literate here is something else I've been thinking about. I used to sell a lot of 302 Z28 pans back in my Chevy parts days. They had nice side baffles that kept the oil from climbing the side of the pan on hard corners and were very popular in use and price with the Ft. Wayne area bulders. The origional part number I think was 3974251 and was also used on Sp. H/Per. 350s through '74.

Is the currant GM Performance Parts listing of part number 360450 Z28 pan the same pan or an updated version using the thick front seal? Or is it something else altogether? I can't find any GM Performance Parts dealer that lists it as anything more than Z28 pan. It would help if they gave a more thorough description.

I may have to return the 509 and get a 510 pan gasket. An extra qt. capacity would be nice though.

Thanks,
Tom

Yup, the #359937 pan is identical to the original '57-'62 pan except for the front seal radius. There is also a #359942 pan, which is identical to the original '63-'74 production pan except for the front seal radius.

The "Z28" pan with the side rails for the windage tray is #465220, the matching windage tray is #3927136, the main studs for the windage tray (5 required) are #3872718. Also requires #3855152 pump pickup screen, #3876870 upper dipstick tube, and #3951576 dipstick. This same pan was also used on '75-'79 L-82 Corvettes.

I'm not familar with whatever GM Performance Parts is offering.

 

[JohnZ]

Thanks John
I learned something today, perhaps that is why my Vette "marks its territory"
I have a Moroso pan, Edelbrock aluminum timing cover and was thinking of trying the one piece gasket; Do you think it will help?
thanks
Craig sr

Craig - The key is to measure the front seal radius (if that's where your leak is) to determine whether the pan needs a "thin" or "thick" front seal. Flip the pan upside down (without gaskets) on a flat surface, and measure from the surface straight up to the pan sealing surface. If it's 2-1/4", it takes the "thin" seal; if it's 2-3/8", it takes the later "thick" seal. The one-piece gaskets work great.

 

[Tom Bryant]

Jack,

Must be allright if you have been running it for 2 years. Good price too at $48. vs. $96. for the pan and pickup in Summit. I'll have to get the thick gasket no matter what I do. I can keep the thin one for when I do the engine in the '59. I'll have to check the price on that Z28 pan too.

Tom

 

[Tom Bryant]

You sold me Jack

Just got the pan off of the big brown truck. Very nice piece. It's just sitting on the block right here. I'll install it when I have more time. The seller, ASA Performance, was a pleasure to deal with and they have a few more things that would look nice on my engine. I'll probably deal with them again.