To Spring Or Not To Spring..A Question For 67 Heaven

[Viet Nam Vett]

I know you hate it when I email you and ASK you a question. You always say...post it on the froum.... Ok...Ok... Here's the Question....

Have you done anything to the Holley carb that came on your 502. Do you feel the secondaries open ...or is it more or less the old sliding acceleration up the tach. Last time out I got a little brave and got on my 502 for just a short short from 2nd gear. Due to the Vacuume secondaries there was just this aggressive acceleration.... but no real kick like mechanical secondaries.

I haven't really wrung out the motor yet as I'm still waiting for the 500 miles for the clutch to be broken in. So...I might be going off Half Cocked here ..but I hate Vaccume Secondaries..

I know how and why there their and have done my share of reading but I still don't like the way they operate. I have read the tunning proceedures on the Vaccume Diaphram ..( Changing the Sping)....What a Pain.. you have to remove the choke housing and then the Diaphram unit and then change the spring.

So...have you not touched the carb and left it alone...?? Or did you tinker with the secondary open rate.?? Are you happy with the performance and do you get that seat of the pants kick when you mash it???

 

[67HEAVEN]

Viet Nam Vett,

I've been running on the primaries alone all summer. Now that I no longer scare myself when I put the pedal-to-the-glass (amazing what you can get used to :gap ), it's time to open them up and get a whole new thrill.

We'll tune them together, Mark.

I can't start until after the weekend. I'm booked solid on some Spec.Ops. stuff.

 

[bossvette]

Holley makes a Kit that allows you to change the spring without pulling the carb apart once its installed. I've got a bunch of old springs around somewhere now I just use my laptop

 

[Viet Nam Vett]

Viet Nam Vett,

I've been running on the primaries alone all summer. Now that I no longer scare myself when I put the pedal-to-the-glass (amazing what you can get used to :gap ), it's time to open them up and get a whole new thrill.

We'll tune them together, Mark.

I can't start until after the weekend. I'm booked solid on some Spec.Ops. stuff.

I can't belive you haven't traveled to the Land of the Flushed Toilet...Secondaries......You got over 1000 mile on theat sucker. Oh well ...I'm getten close to that 500 mile mark for the clutch. So I will be taking some trips to secondary land.

Ok..you got it will tune together...we also have the Holley experts here on the forum to help out......One of which I'm not. Every now and then I keep hearing the " Edlebrock" Voice in My Head.... Saying .....AVS Performer.........Tuneable Secondaries...all you need is a flat blade screwdriver....No springs... No Power Valves No sticking Gaskets........

 

[IH2LOSE]

You know this is something I have always never fully understood. I was told its wrong to feel the secondaries pull in real stong and noticable. And a properley tuned carb and secondaries should just come in un-noticable (you should be feeling your strong motor) but it comes in as fast as your motor allows it with out the slight bog/hesitaion/noise.

I am shaking out my barry grant carb now.I am always afraid they are not coming in 100% but the way I know they come in is to pile some soft playdo and see how much is squished.

If you want to feel them set a little nut in bolt in the slider on the pasenger side secondaries and they will feel like mecanicals.
For fun and feel mecanicals with an over sized carb will do the trick

for normal street performance a proper sized carb with vacums adjusted write I feel is better


You know I will tweak on a car for months untill i have it right.

Not to side track a post but I have this young pizza guy in our area with an older muscle car (trans am) and he has just about every modification you can put on a car to make it go fast.Its a slob I can out run it from a stop light in the wifes esculade. I am going to help this kid tune his car,and its the little things I think he is having problems with .Too cold a plug,too tight a gap on his plugs he is at 35 with a msd ignition system.timing set to factory spec,using ported vacum instead of manifold. carb way too rich.So I am sure your way past all of this stuff and now monkeying around with the secondaries.

In december I should get my tri powerset up.I will loan you my barry grant 750 cfm vac secondaries.to see how it runs on your car. I really love his products.

 

[67HEAVEN]

You got over 1000 mile on theat sucker.

1,000 miles? Hell, I got more than that going to Carlisle and back. Then there was Bowling Green (another 1,600) and lots of undercover side trips and assorted cruises.

I'm close to 6,000 miles this summer alone.

Next week we'll "get 'er done".

 

[Viet Nam Vett]

Holley makes a Kit that allows you to change the spring without pulling the carb apart once its installed. I've got a bunch of old springs around somewhere now I just use my laptop

You don't have to take the carb apart.... just pull the chock meck off the body and then pop a "C" Clip on the secondary diaphram...then unscrew the secondary housing from the carb body and remove ....then you can take the secondary housing apart and change the spring..

A Real Pain in the Butt Huh.......Just to change a friggen spring...
On the Edelbrock....AVS Performer ..all you need is a flat blade screwdriver and 10 Seconds per adjustment for secondary opening tunning.

 

[Viet Nam Vett]

1,000 miles? Hell, I got more than that going to Carlisle and back. Then there was Bowling Green (another 1,600) and lots of undercover side trips and assorted cruises.

I'm close to 6,000 miles this summer alone.

Next week we'll "get 'er done".

And you haven't SMASHED THAT PEDAL THRU THE FLOOR YET.....???

 

[67HEAVEN]

And you haven't SMASHED THAT PEDAL THRU THE FLOOR YET.....???

Getting on it with the monster biggies on the back, and still feeling the rear end trying to come around to say, "Howdy!" has been very entertaining during the summer shake-out.

My primary goal, aside from educating a few non-believers that I ran across from time to time, was successful trips to and from Bowling Green and Carlisle -- without resorting to the hook or a trailer ride.

Now that the summer is winding down.........Heaven's first summer in 20 years.....there's time to begin finding another 50 or so horsepower.

Oh, and no -- the pedal hasn't been through the floor yet. To the floor, yes. Through the floor, no.

 

[Viet Nam Vett]

You know this is something I have always never fully understood. I was told its wrong to feel the secondaries pull in real stong and noticable. And a properley tuned carb and secondaries should just come in un-noticable (you should be feeling your strong motor) but it comes in as fast as your motor allows it with out the slight bog/hesitaion/noise.

I am shaking out my barry grant carb now.I am always afraid they are not coming in 100% but the way I know they come in is to pile some soft playdo and see how much is squished.

If you want to feel them set a little nut in bolt in the slider on the pasenger side secondaries and they will feel like mecanicals.
For fun and feel mecanicals with an over sized carb will do the trick

for normal street performance a proper sized carb with vacums adjusted write I feel is better


You know I will tweak on a car for months untill i have it right.

Not to side track a post but I have this young pizza guy in our area with an older muscle car (trans am) and he has just about every modification you can put on a car to make it go fast.Its a slob I can out run it from a stop light in the wifes esculade. I am going to help this kid tune his car,and its the little things I think he is having problems with .Too cold a plug,too tight a gap on his plugs he is at 35 with a msd ignition system.timing set to factory spec,using ported vacum instead of manifold. carb way too rich.So I am sure your way past all of this stuff and now monkeying around with the secondaries.

In december I should get my tri powerset up.I will loan you my barry grant 750 cfm vac secondaries.to see how it runs on your car. I really love his products.

If you want to feel them set a little nut in bolt in the slider on the pasenger side secondaries and they will feel like mecanicals.
For fun and feel mecanicals with an over sized carb will do the trick

Thanks Larry....

Holley warns you in several different spots on there web site about doing what you mentioned above I know I read it today on there site but I can't find it now. I Know What Mechanicals feel like. I had Dual Quads on my SB motor that were Edelbrock. There secondaries were counter weighted Top Plates and not adjustable.. but they felt like Mechanicals.

I've driven cars with mechanicals and I love the feeling. In fact I set my DualQuad's up on the 1:1 linkage setting. Man that was fun ..you could really feel the power as compared to the progressive set up.

As I stated in my first post I am also familiar with Carbs and all of the 5 circuits contained with in. To me the Holley is a good carb tunable in many ways... One of the most popular carbs out their. But..... And I say But... to me...there are to many parts .... To many Valves.. to many ports .. to many gaskets.. to many springs.. Ball Check Valve This....And Blow out check valve that... And to many leaks. It's a great Carb... But not my idea of a simple design.

Like the saying goes..Less Is more. Now ..I don't want to start Carb Wars Episode III here....This is just my opinion...And I'm intitled to it.... The Edelbrock Carter Type to me is good design. Maybe not as tuneable as a holley ..but still tunable..and simple. No leakes...No Power Valves.. No springs or internal diaphrams .doesn't have a large collection of screws holding it together..one set of floats...and only has one main gasket.

for normal street performance a proper sized carb with vacums adjusted write I feel is better

How right you are...There is nothing better then a motor with the correct size carb and correct operating secondaries.....

 

[67HEAVEN]

I've driven cars with mechanicals and I love the feeling.

You could always throw a secondary metering body/power valve and a secondary bowl with accelerator pump on there, toss the vacuum unit in the bin and attach some mechanical linkage. Voila! Mechanical secondaries.

Push hard and wait for the Oommmmmmmmpah!!! :gap

Hey. Maybe I'll do that too. I love burning rubber when the secondaries kick in.

 

[Viet Nam Vett]

Getting on it with the monster biggies on the back, and still feeling the rear end trying to come around to say, "Howdy!" has been very entertaining during the summer shake-out.

My primary goal, aside from educating a few non-believers that I ran across from time to time, was successful trips to and from Bowling Green and Carlisle -- without resorting to the hook or a trailer ride.

Now that the summer is winding down.........Heaven's first summer in 20 years.....there's time to begin finding another 50 or so horsepower.

Oh, and no -- the pedal hasn't been through the floor yet. To the floor, yes. Through the floor, no.

I know where you can find another 118HP...... Can you say 572...??

I'm stopen right where I am.....All Iwant to do is work out the kinks and just make it a fun driving torque monster. You know as well as I do and so does every one else here on this forum....... It never ends.....The quest for more and more.................

:W

 

[Viet Nam Vett]

You could always throw a secondary metering body/power valve and a secondary bowl with accelerator pump on there, toss the vacuum unit in the bin and attach some mechanical linkage. Voila! Mechanical secondaries.

Push hard and wait for the Oommmmmmmmpah!!! :gap

Hey. Maybe I'll do that too. I love burning rubber when the secondaries kick in.

Nah..... Just hook a long hose to the Secondary Diaphram and run it to the washer pump Vacuume side...!!! Hit the washer button and slam that pedal to the floor..:L

 

[67HEAVEN]

We went to a local Sunday evening Cruise-In last night and tried a little experiment.

Test #1: Pulled in, parked in a central location and stayed in the car. Most people walked on by with brief side-glances.

Test #2: Exited the vehicle and walked away to a discreet distance; turned to observe. Lots of people circled the car and scratched their heads looking at the fenders. Several knelt to look under the front and rear. Some photos.

Test #3: Returned to open the hood, then walked away again. Car was instantly surrounded with lots of discussion between people. Lots of photos. Lots of approving nods.

Analysis: You're right, Mark. Everyone likes big.

 

[67HEAVEN]

Nah..... Just hook a long hose to the Secondary Diaphram and run it to the washer pump Vacuume side...!!! Hit the washer button and slam that pedal to the floor..:L

My son used to fight the neighbour kids with one of those super-soakers. I could rig that up through the firewall. :bang

I bet it's still around here somewhere. :W

 

[Viet Nam Vett]

Analysis: You're right, Mark. Everyone likes big.

So...change those 427 Hood Numbers to 502 and then repeat test #3...

The Sleeper days are gone.......

 

[67HEAVEN]

So...change those 427 Hood Numbers to 502 and then repeat test #3...

The Sleeper days are gone.......

I'm in Spec.Ops. mode and lovin' it. :W

 

[Viet Nam Vett]

I'm in Spec.Ops. mode and lovin' it. :W

WTF is That...????

 

[67HEAVEN]

WTF is That...????

I could tell ya, but I'd have to kill ya.

 

[Viet Nam Vett]

I could tell ya, but I'd have to kill ya.

...................oh boy...:argue