Wheel and or Hub Bearings

[vdogamr]

Front bearing and ABS sensor

Sorry for posting on such an old thread but this seemed like the place to ask my question. I am looking to buy new front wheel bearings and Ecklers states that their cheap ones won't work with the ABS sensor. Midamerica, and several other sites, don't say one way or the other.

Should I assume that any cheap front bearings won't work with the ABS sensor? One site I read stated that the magnetic seal the ABS uses is under patent, so I assume that only one company can make proper bearings.

Thanks in advance

 

[WhalePirot]

Ahh.. Old thread. My '84 RWB yielded 110k and I never washed them!

I cannot speak to the ABS issue; sorry, neighbor.

Beware, as some Timkens are made in China, so brand alone tells you little.

 

[vdogamr]

Yeah, it seems that the 84s and 85s didn't have the ABS sensor. I, of course, am just assuming that my car even has ABS since it is an 88. Maybe I should check first.

My car currently has 118K miles on it and, I would assume from the repairs I have had to do to it so far, the bearings have never been changed. And if I am doing the shake test right, I think it is time.

 

[boomdriver]

Yeah, it seems that the 84s and 85s didn't have the ABS sensor. I, of course, am just assuming that my car even has ABS since it is an 88. Maybe I should check first.

My car currently has 118K miles on it and, I would assume from the repairs I have had to do to it so far, the bearings have never been changed. And if I am doing the shake test right, I think it is time.

The originals usually go 100K or more depending on driving conditions and habits, and they are considered a wear-part like brake pads and rotors. And, yes, you DO have ABS as an "off-board" diagnostic system by Bosch. Later yrs were "onboard" and could be diagnosed thru flash codes. Early systems required a plug-in scanner specific for ABS that is becoming hard to find...thankfully these systems are the most tested and well designed componant of the entire car. Mine has close to 300K and still fuctions as it should. I have had to replace 2 sensors that were damaged from other work being performed, not failed.

Shake test...jack up the car, grab at 6:00 & 12:00 and try to wiggle in/out. If you feel movement more than 'maybe its moving' then its likely time.....if you can actually see any movement, being much more than the few thousanths of an inch thats allowed, then its time to park it. This design is very tight and help provide the wonderful handling BUT it can come apart if neglected and since its held in place by only 3 torx bolts to the knuckle, having a bearing come apart on a steering axle could be disasterous...
Warning....the "real" hub/bearing assembly cost money. They ain;t cheap. There are a doz knock offs around in catalogs and parts stores that sell for as little as $50-$75 each...BEWARE.(made in China) They are loose to start with and will wear out in months, not years. I've had some that were junk in less than 10,000 miles. The real McCoy will run $150+ (or twice that @ the dealer) or close but will last you another 100K miles of civil driving.

 

[vdogamr]

The real McCoy will run $150+ (or twice that @ the dealer) or close but will last you another 100K miles of civil driving.

See that is what I am concerned about. If I look online for these parts, the cheapest I find the ACDelco ones are $450. The next step down is in the $180+ range and, like I said, Ecklers states their cheap ones won't work with the ABS. So it seems that even though I would like the right part, a quality part, and a good deal on the part, I only get to choose two of the three. (unless $450 is a deal )

Edit: Amazon had the ACDelco FW115 for sale for $390, and Sears had them for $350, but after free shipping, Amazon won. I just went with the ACDelco units to be sure my ABS would work. Thanks for the help.

 

[boomdriver]

See that is what I am concerned about. If I look online for these parts, the cheapest I find the ACDelco ones are $450. The next step down is in the $180+ range and, like I said, Ecklers states their cheap ones won't work with the ABS. So it seems that even though I would like the right part, a quality part, and a good deal on the part, I only get to choose two of the three. (unless $450 is a deal )

Edit: Amazon had the ACDelco FW115 for sale for $390, and Sears had them for $350, but after free shipping, Amazon won. I just went with the ACDelco units to be sure my ABS would work. Thanks for the help.

Probably the best plan...

it actually pensils out pretty easily....

the $350 unit that will go for 100,000 miles
OR a series of $100 units that only last 10-20,000 miles.
Add the labor & down time and its a no brainer. Chances are that a 25 yr old car will not be needing them again if you buy the good ones...

Its been a while but I think I got my last pair for the rear for around 200 ea. I DO remember shopping around quite a bit....Fronts cost more because the ABS inductor ring is made inside the assy and just a little "nicer" part. More machine work goes into fronts by the look of it.

Treat the ABS like it is made of glass....those particular units from the late 80s early 90s are difficult to service or replace. Many parts are only available thru salvage. I searched for sensors for mine and was told that they are d/c and nobody has picked up the aftermarket production because they were for a very few yr models and it wasn;t worth anyones time to start up mfg for so few models...

 

[TedC]

My rear hubs were within GM spec at 55K, but you could feel side-to-side play. More so on the driver's side. They had reached my definition of worn out, and they had to go. The front hubs were tight. I special ordered Timkens from AZ, very willing to pay extra $$ for made in the USA. The counter clerk knew what I was looking for and offered a full refund. I wasted about a week on this special order, and I had a free weekend coming up. No one locally had them, so off to e-bay. I fully expected the worse based on comments made here. I was shocked when they arrived from Florida to Buffalo in just two days. They installed perfectly, and after a few years and 10K more, they are still perfectly tight. I couldn't be happier. I do not autocross, and adding only 3-5K per year, these hubs should be good for another 10 years.

 

[roger longman]

See that is what I am concerned about. If I look online for these parts, the cheapest I find the ACDelco ones are $450. The next step down is in the $180+ range and, like I said, Ecklers states their cheap ones won't work with the ABS. So it seems that even though I would like the right part, a quality part, and a good deal on the part, I only get to choose two of the three. (unless $450 is a deal )

Edit: Amazon had the ACDelco FW115 for sale for $390, and Sears had them for $350, but after free shipping, Amazon won. I just went with the ACDelco units to be sure my ABS would work. Thanks for the help.

Hi, I see at Sears they are either $352.77 or $616.98. I guess that's one or two but they dont say that........Roger. Also they are showing SKF FW 115 hub unit for $70.80 and $789.98. I infer from that, that they consider it OK to press in new bearings ! But I still dont get, why the two prices........Roger.

 

[chevyaddict]

Reviving this thread! I think I discovered today that my driver's side bearings are going, although I don't have any play using the "shake" test. What I do have when I idle down the road with my door open is what sounds like metal on metal (sound completely independent of the brakes) and this "crinking" sound every few revolutions or so. So I jacked it up, supported the rear end, and hand-turned it and every turn or so there is this CLANK like something is in a bind and it breaks free, and you can feel a slight jolt. Car has 121K on it so since everyone said these things last about 100K I'm assuming this is my problem even though there is no play. According to my chilton manual it seems they are easy enough to replace (can someone comment on the task?). Problem is I can't afford $350. Ecklers has the Timken for sale right now for $219, and some cheapy for $139. I was going to buy the Timken but it sounds like I should make sure they are USA made, is that correct? Since I'm strapped for cash, should I wait to do the passenger side or do it now too with this many miles?

 

[Hib Halverson]

If the hub/bearing has no "play" when you do the "shake" test but you hear noises, you may have a problem other than rear bearings such as a faulty u-joint or a problem inside the rear axle.

With 121K miles on the car, if the rear axle lube has not been changed or u-joints have never been serviced, those are the first places to look.

Before I'd replace a bearing/hub assy, I'd make sure that's really the problem.

 

[chevyaddict]

If the hub/bearing has no "play" when you do the "shake" test but you hear noises, you may have a problem other than rear bearings such as a faulty u-joint or a problem inside the rear axle.

With 121K miles on the car, if the rear axle lube has not been changed or u-joints have never been serviced, those are the first places to look.

Before I'd replace a bearing/hub assy, I'd make sure that's really the problem.

Well, I went back out there. There is NO PLAY AT ALL whatsoever. NONE. It is very very tight. I did this test with the tire off and on and the same result. I can't understand how a bad u-joint would sound like rotational metal on metal though when idling down the road. Again right now what happens is if I turn the wheel I hear this crinking sound as if its getting out of a bind but it doesn't happen at the same time on each revolution. It appears random.... maybe that does sound more like a u-joint? The sound is definitely NOT coming from the rear end assembly. It is either inside the hub or the u-joint. I inspected the u-joint and it looks good although I know you never really know until you take them out. If the hub assembly was bad, it would be obvious when you took the outside nut of wouldn't it? Because the bearing would be somewhat free to move? Seems to me taking the half-shafts out is going to be just as hard as removing the hub.

 

[vigman]

Still sounds like hub to me

But you will not know till you pull it all apart...

BTW you have to grab the tire @ 12 & 6 and rock up and down... that will tell you the hub freeplay...

With that many miles.. I would bet hub VS 1/2 shaft U joint... it's not that bad of a job...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sl2qcvLP1s

Mike

 

[chevyaddict]

This is frustrating. Problem is money is tight - in fact I just VERY SADLY had to sell my 81 Corvette this past week so I really don't have the money to throw at the problem until it gets fixed. I guess the only thing I can do though is at least start taking things apart before ordering or buying any parts so that is what I'm unfortunately going to have to do. I'm going to change the gear oil right now and take her back out for a spin after doing that but I seriously doubt that is it. I'll keep everyone posted! Thanks everyone!

 

[chevyaddict]

Ok, for two days now I've tried to get that hub nut off. IT WILL NOT COME OFF. I bought this car in Chicago and so you guessed it - on the few metal parts there are there are huge amounts of rust. I've tried penetrating oil numerous times, heat/torch, hammer... so I guess I'm going to have to carefully cut the *&^%! thing off. ad My question is (even though it is obvious by looking at it) is that are EITHER of these hub nuts counterthreaded? It would make sense that one side should be so that the rotation of the tire does not loosen the nut (although I realize it cant with the couter pin). Before I go trying to cut this off I guess I want to know that I am actually supposed to loosen in the normal way - its on the driver's side.

 

[Hib Halverson]

Bolts holding the hub/bearing assy to the knuckle are not reverse threaded.

While I know those bolts can be difficult to remove on an old car, I've not heard of anyone having to cut them off, but never say never.

They will not be easy to cut off because they are super hard bolts.

Before you get out the cutting wheel...

What penetrant were you using and what tools are you using to try and remove them?

 

[vigman]

Your talking about the 3 torx bolts ?

I assume you do not have an impact ?
Did you get the 1/2 shaft nut off?

Mike

 

[G Winter]

Any axle nut is hard to get off without a good impact. I have had front nuts that I jumped on a 4 ft cheater and didn't get them,,,good impact , a mater of seconds.

 

[chevyaddict]

For some reason I wasn't getting the notices that you guys had responded here. I spent 2 hours today searching through all the forums and the more I read the more I was NOT convinced it was my bearings because I have NO PLAY whatsoever.... SO.... since I couldn't get the nut off anyway I decided to go the other route and take the half shaft out to check the u-joints. And, guess what!!! It is a bad u-joint! I'm so excited!!! Although you don't have to take everything off like other posts had stated. In fact, I spent 1.5 hours trying to get the damn outer camber arm bolt out and ultimately didn't need to. The only thing I had to remove was the rear tie rod bolt. So I'll begin the tedious task of putting her back together after I get me some new u-joints! Phew!

 

[vigman]

Good Job Dawn

Mike