ZR-1 Purchasing Advice

[thxalot]

Hello ZR-1 fanatics,

I am considering the opportunity to join your illustrious ranks, but would like some of your advice first.

Although new to the forums here, I am an old Vette fan who loved the C4 when it first came out. I remember hanging the 4 page C&D foldout on my wall as a kid. Now a friend of a friend is selling a '90 ZR-1 with 28k and red on red coloring. No mods. One accident - low speed truck hit the Vette's door when making a left turn from a stop. Both tops. Supposedly runs well and looks good, but it's across the country, so I won't get to see it.

The owner wants $22k delivered to CA, or $20k if I make my own arrangements. I don't relish the $1-2k cost of transporting it and could drive it, but that's putting a quick 3000 miles on this baby. I also don't care for red. I would much rather have a more subtle color. I'll take dash over flash every day.

My wife is ready to kill me, but has relented to giving up $15k and I think I can talk her into $18. Now for the questions:

• Have any of you brought a ZR-1 into California? What's involved in passing smog? or registering it?
• Should I drive it or truck it? How much is the 3k miles worth?
• What do you think of the price? I've been doing a lot of research. KBB is $17.8-$21k depending on how you get it (I prefer wholesale ;-). ZR-1's on Ebay almost never reach their reserve price. When they do it's usually for a price below blue book. NADA prices are similar to KBB, and the few other ZR-1 owners I've contacted, who are looking to sell, tell me it is very definitely a buyers market.
• What can I expect to pay for insurance and up keep? This will be a 3rd car (making the $$ justification tougher) and not a daily driver. I'll probably drive ~3000 miles a year and only when the sun is out.
• Lastly, the baited question . . .
  A friend ('71 350 drop-top) suggests skipping the ZR-1 and putting the same money into an older C5. "Almost just as fast, better appointments, more comfortable, more space, nicer ride," etc. etc. he says. What do you guys think? Which is the better car and why?

Sorry for running on a bit. This is a sizeable chunk of change to spend on a toy, and I want to have my ducks in a row. But in the end, what a great toy to have, right ?!?

Thanks for any help and advice,

-Burt

 

[6 Shooter]

We have eyes every where !

If you want someone from CAC to check it out for you . . . I'm sure they will. It has been done before . . . we like doing stuff like that . . .

Later . . . . . .
6 Shooter

 

[Jeffvette]

• Lastly, the baited question . . .
  A friend ('71 350 drop-top) suggests skipping the ZR-1 and putting the same money into an older C5. "Almost just as fast, better appointments, more comfortable, more space, nicer ride," etc. etc. he says. What do you guys think? Which is the better car and why?

Obviously your friend has never driven a ZR-1.

I drove a Z06 and a ZR-1..... I wound up with the real sports car. C5 has no soul. Chevy sold out.

 

[jhong321]

Hi

I live in San Francisco if the car is around this area I would be happy to look at it for you. I also own a 1990 ZR1 that I just bought about 2 months ago. I do know a little about the car and do have a couple of shop the work only with vettes. I can help you bring it to them. As for the drive If the car is in good condition I don't see any reason for it not to be able to drive back east. These car are made to run. i have 118K on mine and it runs great except for a little peoblem that was fix for not too much money. If you can buy it for 18K that would be a good deal. These car are getting pretty rare and in my opinion have more porsonality then the C5. Good luck with your choice.

 

[fhturner]

Welcome to the CAC, thxalot! I hope (and I'm sure we all do) that you'll be frequenting this forum as a ZR-1 owner in the near future. I just completed my search a few weeks ago, and got lots of good advice about these cars from several members of the forum:

Considering purchase of '90 ZR-1, have Q's...

Should I drive it or truck it? How much is the 3k miles worth?

That's an awfully long drive, but I doubt increasing the mileage from 28K to 31K will hurt the value of the car that much-- 31K is still pretty low mileage for a 14 year-old car. Probably a bigger concern is: Do you want to drive that far? One thing I personally like about driving it back (aside from getting to spend some quality time with your new baby ) is that you have the chance to check it out before you seal the deal.

What do you think of the price? I've been doing a lot of research. KBB is $17.8-$21k depending on how you get it (I prefer wholesale ;-). ZR-1's on Ebay almost never reach their reserve price. When they do it's usually for a price below blue book. NADA prices are similar to KBB, and the few other ZR-1 owners I've contacted, who are looking to sell, tell me it is very definitely a buyers market.

Yes, it is a buyer's market, but I would say that $20K for 28K miles is still a pretty good deal, assuming the car is in good shape. That point is important-- low mileage isn't everything. Just take a look at the discussion of the car I looked at first in the thread above to see that. They wanted only $20K for a 13,500-mile car, but I didn't feel it was even worth that much. BTW, again assuming a good-quality car, in my experience, the KBB pricing was a little low on the bottom end, and didn't accurately reflect the increased value for lower mileage ZR-1s.

What can I expect to pay for insurance and up keep? This will be a 3rd car (making the $$ justification tougher) and not a daily driver. I'll probably drive ~3000 miles a year and only when the sun is out.

My ZR-1 is my third vehicle as well. Since I also will not be driving it more than 3-4000 miles per year, and since I see it as more of a collector's item, I have insured it with what my agent calls "Exhibition Auto" coverage. Costs a little over $200/year, and stipulates it cannot be regularly used (such as going to/from work every day), must be kept in a locked garage, and cannot exceed 4000 miles/year or 1000 miles/trip. Otherwise, it would have been around $1200/year.

Lastly, the baited question . . .
A friend ('71 350 drop-top) suggests skipping the ZR-1 and putting the same money into an older C5. "Almost just as fast, better appointments, more comfortable, more space, nicer ride," etc. etc. he says. What do you guys think? Which is the better car and why?

Tough to say. I have both and love both. The C5 is a fantastic automobile in most every way. The build quality is better, ergonomics are better, frame stiffness is amazing... Just an all-around awesome vehicle. OTOH, the raw power, exotic nature, and mystique of the ZR-1, the sounds of the engine and whine of the transmission, plus the way it wraps around you make for an incredible experience there as well. If you are already well on your way toward "ZR1-hood", I wouldn't change your course now. It's a great time to buy a Z, and you can always get a C5 or C6 in addition to the Z once the wife realizes how much fun Corvettes are and loosens the purse strings! :L

Sorry for running on a bit. This is a sizeable chunk of change to spend on a toy, and I want to have my ducks in a row. But in the end, what a great toy to have, right ?!?

Exactamundo!

Good luck!
Fred

P.S. Jeff-- I gotta stand up for my C5, man! Don't knock it! I love 'em both. The C5 has plenty of soul-- it's just not as raw and mystical a beast as the ZR-1...

 

[Jeffvette]

P.S. Jeff-- I gotta stand up for my C5, man! Don't knock it! I love 'em both. The C5 has plenty of soul-- it's just not as raw and mystical a beast as the ZR-1...

I knew that would get ya Fred I've grown up around people with C2/3's, and the ZR-1 just carried on that evolution. The C5 lost some of that sports car feel in the driving experience.

 

[90 Corvette ZR-1]

If the car is in my next of the woods let me know I'll be happy to check it out.

 

[thxalot]

Hi Folks,

Thanks for all the helpful answers and advice. You guys are quick on the draw. Probably not to shabby off the line either, huh?

The car is in Virginia, not sure if I'll need a local check-out, but thanks for the offer. I will definitely keep it in mind.

As for the drive, I don't mind putting in the miles. I like time on the road. I'll have to look into the costs of travel though (1-way flight, some hotels, lotsa gas, etc.). Now I'm leaning back towards the shipping option. Can anyone recommend a good auto transport company?

I'm still a little worried about bringing it into CA. They are painfully strict around here about passing smog. Anyone out there have any experience with this? Any good threads I should read? Jhong321 did your Z come from CA, or did you import it?

Thanks again for the very helpful advice,

-Burt

 

[SPANISHVETTS]

As for the drive, I don't mind putting in the miles. I like time on the road. I'll have to look into the costs of travel though (1-way flight, some hotels, lotsa gas, etc.).

ZR1´s get great gas mileage; you can’t ship it back as cheep. Unless you want a garage queen this car needs to be driven. Bad things happen when LT5´s arn´t run on a regular basis.

I'm still a little worried about bringing it into CA. They are painfully strict around here about passing smog.

ZR1´s are clean burners; if everything is to factory spec she will pass the test.
After years of searching and even considering buying a wrecked ZR1 in Europe, the cheapest one here is over 30K, I dumped a 383 in the ´90. It is loads of fun and I will take most of you guys up to 160MPH but it just ain´t a ZR1.:eyerole

Do not quote me on this until I own one of the Kings. ¨The ZR1 will end up in the same parking lot as the ´63 Split.¨

Oh yeah did I mention that you should drive it home. We take several 2000+ mile Vette trips around Europe every year where we pay $5 a gallon for gas. I wouldn’t go another way.

 

[dennisinmaryland]

Well, I have a C2 and a 40th Anniv ZR1. I've driven the C5 and these guys are right on the money. The King of the Hill is no doubt the most incredible Vette ever. It has guts, it has soul and I consider it a direct descendant of my BB 67.

I go to Virginia from Maryland practically every other weekend. If I can help by eyeballing the car, let me know. Driving fron VA to west coast would be a great adventure in a Z car and the other writer was correct, 3000 added miles still is gonna give you a low mileage Z plus the fun of bringing it home.
Besides, my Z drives like a dream compared to the 67 BB. How much more "comfortable" can they make the Vette and not put a Cadillac emblem on it? (or did they do that already?). The C5 may be easier to get in and out of, but I still prefer to "wrap my ass in fiberglass" so the C4 fits like a glove and I just go crazy every time I look in the garage and know I have the most incredible corvette ever built!
Good luck with the decision, but my vote is for the Z car.

 

[Demps]

Road Trip. If you ship, do NOT use Horseless Carriage. Spend the money and ship by Intercity. I have learned this lesson already. ted

 

[dennisinmaryland]

Road Trip. If you ship, do NOT use Horseless Carriage. Spend the money and ship by Intercity. I have learned this lesson already. ted

And don't use Kanter either, they shipped my 67 and loaded the ramps next to my car without securing the ramps....800 miles later the ramps had ground down the edge of on of my bolt on wheels. How they didn't bounce and take out some of the side I'll never know. Still trying to settle with them.

 

[kabnvtt]

I bought my 92 ZR-1 from A person in Virginia and had it shipped to Redding Ca. I paid $900.00 and had no problems at all with damage to the car they took very good care of it. The car had to be inspected by the DMV after it was smogged, it passed with no issues and it had 30k on the ODO. I paid $21k for it 2 years ago and it is yellow/black and have had not one single issue with it other than buying rear tires.

As far as the C5 vs ZR-1 I would get the ZR-1 but if you have the chance to drive each car do so and you will see. Good luck. Also I agree with Demps go with Intercity if you have it shipped but if you get the chance to drive it back that would be one hell of a road trip.

 

[WB9MCW]

heart of the beast

read "heart of the beast" then u will understand why we zr-1ers are so passionate abt the zr-1. she is a true racer the lt5 is in my view the best ever engine out in an amer.car bar none...a true race motor...none other incld. the ls2 comes close....factoid..the lt5 can rev. out to 10,000 rpm if it were not 4 the access. limiting the rev's to 7500!!! this is why she was the "darkhorse" of the chev. brass.. an english motor design built by a motorboat engine co. with a german tranny....only the body/frame was chev...a bit of an embar.. for chev. brass... the king of the hill---international sportscar they they could not build themselves....till now the c-6 and still it uses "stinkin pushrod tech."!!!

 

[Brett]

she was the "darkhorse" of the chev. brass.. an english motor design built by a motorboat engine co. with a german tranny....only the body/frame was chev...a bit of an embar.. for chev. brass... the king of the hill---international sportscar they they could not build themselves

GM owned Lotus at the time, and they have always contracted out their engine blocks to MercuryMarine. The LT5 was completely funded by Chevy and was used soley in the ZR-1. So, I've never understood the comment that it's not a Chevy engine. It is 100% a Chevy engine.

 

[WB9MCW]

Heart of the Beast The LT 5

Hi Brett, Chevy went to Mercury Marine on the Lt5 because of their expert knowledge in alum. engine mfg. production. Especially the anarobic(no air) sealing, gasketless process, which requires very close tolerance machining, another merc. speciality in aluminum. The early blocks were produced by a Texas foundry which later went bankrupt, then chevy did produce the blocks in the later Zr-1's. You are correct abt. gm owning lotus. But without the lotus engneering input it is doubtful that chevy guys, by themselves, would have went Dohc, hell they still don't. It is true however that the chevy brass were not happy with the "King of the Hill" moniker and they did not brag about the Zr-1 since so much of the car was by others, and not purely chevy. The Lt5 crank alone cost chevy as much as an Lt1 shortblock. The point is; the excellence of the Lt5 kudos belong to Merc. Marine, Stillwater, Ok. employees who really were the ones to bring us the Lt5, a true race engine! A Zr-1 without the Lt5 is just a C4 corvette with extra big tires and a well tuned varable suspension! The Lt5 this is the "Heart of the Beast" and the hartbeat that us Zr-1'ers live every time we turn the "KEYS ON"!! The ZR-1 international supercar under 70K!! Engine by Lotus ( yes we know chev. guys helped)of England. Forged block from a Texas foundry, machined and assembled engine by Merc. Marine in Ok., Transmission by ZF of Germany, with the final Body/chassis by Chevy, in Kentucky. It took an international effort to produce, funny how in retospect, if it were not for chevy pride getting in the way, GM should have capitalized on the international aspect and marketed it as such. Rather than to have been ashamed and treated it like a Bastard child! Look, it has taken 15 years for them to do it by themselves, and the Ls2 has "stinkin pushrods" you won't get 10,000 rpm out of that motor or 175mph for 24hrs straight either I would bet! Hope I have shed some insight I learned by reading "The Heart of the Beast".

 

[Jeffvette]

they have always contracted out their engine blocks to MercuryMarine.

 

[Brett]

Go check out Mercruiser's engines.....

They are GM blocks...

 

[Jeffvette]

Go check out Mercruiser's engines.....

They are GM blocks...

No joke, but Mercruiser doesn't supply any motors to GM as you were stating earlier.


"The marine engine makers buy basic GM assemblies called long blocks, which contain the engine block, cylinder heads, crankshaft and pistons. Then they are fitted out with ignition-protected electrical components, as well as raw-water cooling and water-cooled and wetted exhaust systems. The blocks are also reinforced to better withstand the prolonged, heavy use common to marine engines."

 

[SPANISHVETTS]

I think that the death of the King was purely economic. GM probably went into the red on every ZR1 they sold.

Did I ever tell yall that I knew the people who built the prototypes in England back in the late 80´s? The man, Henry, who did all of the composite body work worked for the racing team and John Berry, Director in exile, of Lotus keep his boat next to mine in Estapona Marina. (John had some problems with the Queen´s tax collector and was living in Spain along with many other British ¨Thugs¨ because Spain at the time had no extradition agreement with the UK.)
You know what GM did with the prototypes? They busted them up with a backhoe and pushed them into a bog. This seems like a conflict of interest from the Company that gave us the NCM. Anyway Henry tells me that some people in the UK have retrieved parts of the prototypes and are attempting to restore one.

Furthermore the myth of the All American Sports Car is just that. Last week I pulled a relay from under the dash of my L98 and stamped proudly on the case are the words MADE IN KOREA. Looking around under the hood I feel like I am at the UN, I see name plates from Australia, Germany, Mexico, etc.
All of this aside, the King could only have been built in the USA. British QC was at its all time low in the 80´s. Even men who flew in the Battle of Britain and had only bought British as a matter of honor for over 40 years jumped ship and started driving imports. A European built LT5 would have self-destructed before 25K miles! But you would never have gotten that far due to an electrical fire. My Britt friends say things like, ¨you know why we like worm beer? … Lucas Refrigeration¨. Add some German/French influence and the price tag would have been $125,000, the Beast would require purpose built tires, like Porsche, to stay on the road, the suspension would have been unpredictable and scheduled maintenance would cost you $1500 every 5000 miles. Would you like to pay $67 for an oil filter that was on back order for 6 months? Build the ZR1 in Italy…when the filter finally arrived it wouldn’t fit anyway because of an undocumented assembly line change.

Only the USA can produce a World class sports car that can be driven everyday, maintained by the owner or any reasonably qualified mechanic with very few specialized tools and use for the most part off of the shelf GM parts. Damn it, this thread has got me into the ZR1 shopping mood again, it is time to either sell a toy or build a bigger garage…we just got the last extension finished.