53 Corvette #29 (x2?)

[Loren Smith]

Wait a minute..if #259 was allegedly turned into the '54 Motorama Corvair what's it doing with a hardtop? The Corvair was a coupe. (Never mind that another '54 Motorama Corvette had a hardtop but no production Corvettes did). Is it a Plasticon? Oh wait, rebodied. Yeah, that's it.

I don't think he's saying #259 was the motorama corvair, his motorama replica is a 54:

Chevrolet : Corvette:eBay Motors (item 110445334824 end time Oct-20-09 05:47:18 PDT)

 

[Mike Terry]

I may be wrong but it looked like to me that he was trying to sell his 54 Corvair Motorama Car (replica)UNFINISHED. WOW wanting $175,000.00. maybe it is because he don't have the $$$ to finish it or maybe he don't know how to do it and needs to pay to send it out to be finished.
I figured it up and if you could do the work yourself and bought everything you needed to build a 54 Corvair Motorama Car you should be able to do it for about $50K or a little less. Now that is if you do the work yourself. So he only wanted to make $125K on it. NOT BAD if he would have found someone silly enough to buy it. With his history I think it is going to be very hard for him to sell glasses to a blind man.

 

[53 Blue Flame]

It would be nice to see the FL #029 at the NCRS Winter Regional show, still unrestored. I'll be there to talk to the owner when this happens.

Funny thing about these 53's. There are complete cars, parts cars, NO DATA cars, and there are dead cars.
* My only complete 53 #245 used to be a parts car. It's now a restored car. Joe Chess, founding member of the NCRS, owned this car for over 30 yrs. It has documentation back to day one, in Bay City MI.

* My 53 #067 has an original vin tag and not much else at this point. It was wrecked badly in upstate NY around 1961.

* My 53 #151 has only the original body. I hope to see a #151 with an original vin tag pop up someday, so I can offer to sell him it's original Flint built body. It is listed in the Registry in order to keep anyone else from ever trying to claim it and build a car with a repro tag. (Not that it would ever happen.):L

NO DATA cars do pop up from time to time. #130 was a NO DATA car and had been a one family owned car since 1954. Then there's 029, 098, 199, 202 (which was sold as a fake in 2007. The real one did show up later), 274, 201, etc. I have notified John Hutchins of several over the years.

Both #067 and #151 were previously NO DATA cars as well "BUT"....they are what they are and are not claimed to be anything they are not...and never will be.

 

[Tyler Townsley]

1954motoramacorvette.com - Top rated/MVC-015S

Since there were 2 motorama cars and the above was proven to be one of them one might speculate the previous car is the other, # 259. Some one needs to ask 54corvar if he knows the person listed as the owner of # 259. Hint he does.

His house of cars is falling down and he is trying to get out.

Tyler

 

[Loren Lundberg]

My information indicates that '53 #260 was the car sent to Special Projects to become the '54 Motorama car.

 

[Rob]

Funny thing about these 53's. There are complete cars, parts cars, NO DATA cars, and there are dead cars.
* My only complete 53 #245 used to be a parts car. It's now a restored car. Joe Chess, founding member of the NCRS, owned this car for over 30 yrs. It has documentation back to day one, in Bay City MI.

* My 53 #067 has an original vin tag and not much else at this point. It was wrecked badly in upstate NY around 1961.

* My 53 #151 has only the original body. I hope to see a #151 with an original vin tag pop up someday, so I can offer to sell him it's original Flint built body. It is listed in the Registry in order to keep anyone else from ever trying to claim it and build a car with a repro tag. (Not that it would ever happen.):L

NO DATA cars do pop up from time to time. #130 was a NO DATA car and had been a one family owned car since 1954. Then there's 029, 098, 199, 202 (which was sold as a fake in 2007. The real one did show up later), 274, 201, etc. I have notified John Hutchins of several over the years.

Both #067 and #151 were previously NO DATA cars as well "BUT"....they are what they are and are not claimed to be anything they are not...and never will be.

Well...now I'm kind of curious...

Although I've been a member of the NCRS for years now, I don't have the technical expertise to understand all that goes into judging and verifying a car's authenticity.

My understanding is that they verify part numbers and date codes.

So is it out of the realm of possibility for someone with the right level of skills and knowledge, to take several different 1953 Corvettes in various states of disrepair or destruction, and essentially build one, complete 1953 Corvette out of the pieces?

If so, how can that new, 1953 Corvette truly be authenticated and then certified by organizations such as NCRS or Bloomington to be an authentic, fully restored 1953 Corvette?

Can the same thing be done with old Ferraris, or Packards, or any other rare automobile? How are these cars authenticated in terms of originality?

Last but not least, let me just say this: it's a damn good thing, I don't have an indispensable source of income or independently wealthy. Because if I did - I would be more than willing to piss away the money it would cost for me to fly myself and several professionals to Indiana and anywhere else I needed to just to investigate this entire case and put it to rest finally.

And then, once I found out the truth behind this fraudulent fiasco, I would take everything I learned about how it came to be, compile it and turn it over to NCRS, Bloomington and the Feds in an effort to try and prevent this type of BS from happening again, and then I would take the individual(s) involved into a barn, and we would have a nice little southern-type chat.

However, since I am not independently wealthy or have an indispensable source of money to do this, if I find out that any information that is submitted to me for inclusion into any part of this site is fraudulent, or intentionally erroneous, you better run and hide. And that's all I'm going to say on this issue.

 

[Mike Terry]

My information indicates that '53 #260 was the car sent to Special Projects to become the '54 Motorama car.

Where may I ask did you get that information?

 

[53 Blue Flame]

Rob,
Like anything else, it seems that the temptation of the almighty dollar $$$ is just too great for some. From 53's to Fuelies to Big Blocks to L88's, cars tend to fall out of thin air. How many 67 435 hp cars are real or fake????? I'd be scared to death to buy one, even with good looking documentation.

It's a good thing that the 53's are tracked as good as they are. When a new one pops up, they get scrutinized pretty good by a lot of us. We all want to see the original vin tag.

Thankfully, there are enough people and organizations in the hobby that keep very good records. The Registries and judging databases have been successful in rooting out several fraudulant cars. The hobby is really pretty small. People don't forget very quickly.

Then, there are guys in the business of making "old paperwork" as a "service". Where does it end? Nowhere.

You just have to make sure that you do your homework when buying one of these high dollar collectibles.

It seems that the challenge of achieving BG or TF is a very good one. Buy a car in boxes and go for the highest prize. It's a dream for many in the hobby. And a good dream. It's what helped make the NCRS as successful as it is today. I still enjoy the challenge of doing this. It spawned many small businesses and even some large parts supplier businesses, along the way. It's what makes this hobby go round.

A friend of mine bought 1953 #202 a couple of years ago. It turned out to be a fake. It took over a year to get his money back with the help of the IN Attorney General's Office to accomplish that. As dis-heartening as it was, the seller faced zero consequences. It almost makes you lose faith in buying anything.


To answer Rob's question though, the answer is YES, most anything can be built to pass as original. This is done with nearly every year Corvette out there being judged. (Time, skill and money). Let's not forget the most important part though. Unless you can provide "VERIFIABLE" documentation, it doesn't amount to a hill of beans. Period.

Good job on the updated CAC 53 Registry.

 

[Loren Smith]

Where may I ask did you get that information?

1954motoramacorvette.com - Home

 

[Loren Lundberg]

Where may I ask did you get that information?

Without laying my hands on the actual copy of the WO, my notes indicate that #260 was directed to be delivered to MacKichian (sp?) in Styling WITHOUT paint and was then sent to Creative Industries in Dec '53 - pencil note indicates "'54 Motorama".

 

[53 Blue Flame]

1954motoramacorvette.com - Home

Loren, do you have any info on the Motorama Corvair S.O. numbers?

Thanks

 

[Loren Smith]

Not to hijack the tread, but I saw in a publication recently, maybe On Solid Ground?, that Back to the Future Products was making a Corvair replica body for sale. It's not on their website yet:

Oak Harbor, WA (Washington), New Classic Corvette Car Bodies, Back to the Future Products, LLC

But they had a picture of what I think was their prototype in the ad. I would love to see someone finish one of these, not to say it hasn't been done, but I've never seen pictures of a completed Corvair replica. Might be a nice build for a restomod, in Candy Apple Red.

 

[53 Blue Flame]

Not to hijack the tread, but I saw in a publication recently, maybe On Solid Ground?, that Back to the Future Products was making a Corvair replica body for sale. It's not on their website yet:

Oak Harbor, WA (Washington), New Classic Corvette Car Bodies, Back to the Future Products, LLC

But they had a picture of what I think was their prototype in the ad. I would love to see someone finish one of these, not to say it hasn't been done, but I've never seen pictures of a completed Corvair replica. Might be a nice build for a restomod, in Candy Apple Red.

Yes, Loren. That's Bob Mangold. He spent a month at my shop last year. We made the roof molds for the Corvair that you now see floating around the web. There are three of them, altogether. Bob and I made one for him and then one for me. The one on ebay, I made by myself, after Bob went back to Washington state.

Bob pioneered the funny car business back in the 60's. Super guy and extremely knowledgeable with fiberglass mold making. He makes reproduction bodies that are very accurate, unlike the kit car bodies out of Ft. Worth, TX. Can't say enough about Bob's integrity. He plans on building ten high end street rod Corvair Fastback's.

 

[Loren Lundberg]

Loren, do you have any info on the Motorama Corvair S.O. numbers?

Thanks

I guess I'm going to have to dig it out - my initial feelings is that this would have been an Engineering WO and that it probably would not have received a Styling Shop Order until it got there, but....

On another topic, your listing of 1953 motor stampings somewhere above has an entry for, apparently, VIN #20 - is that accurate or am I misreading the listing? I have asked over the years if anyone knew where #20 was because I have some ownership information about the car and an Engineering WO concerning the car. Educate me.

 

[53 Blue Flame]

I guess I'm going to have to dig it out - my initial feelings is that this would have been an Engineering WO and that it probably would not have received a Styling Shop Order until it got there, but....

On another topic, your listing of 1953 motor stampings somewhere above has an entry for, apparently, VIN #20 - is that accurate or am I misreading the listing? I have asked over the years if anyone knew where #20 was because I have some ownership information about the car and an Engineering WO concerning the car. Educate me.

The engine data that I've acquired over the past few years is from a number of sources. These sources include some long time 53 collectors as well as NCRS/BG judging sources. I feel grateful to have it.

The engine data does not list a date for the block. I would bet that it is a D 28 or D 29 date. I have always asssumed that if there was not a block casting date in this old data, that the LAY number most likley came from an old title or registration.

According to the 2008 Edition of John Hutchins' 1953-1955 Registry, the #20 car is located in Minnesota, apart, and being restored. Johns contact info is kjhh41@hotmail.com.

Brett

 

[Mac]

Remember, folks, the NCRS game is just a game. They're not rewarding originality; they rewarding the appearance of originality. If a 1953 Corvette was cobbled together from the parts of a dozen 1953 Corvettes and reassembled in a manner which was factory correct, it could win gold.

Those who pretend NCRS gold is "proof" of originality normally do so either in ignorance (willing or otherwise) or in search of profit.

-Mac

 

[Loren Smith]

Here's another option for building a Corvair tribute car. This is a neat hardtop on a car I've seen featured in at least a couple magazines:

Put this hardtop on a firewall back 56-60 body, add a 53-55 repro front clip, take off the coves on the doors, add the rear pods, 53-57 dash, 53-55 repro trim and bumpers, restomod chassis, and you have the foundation for the project. Plus, this would look like a fastback but be a convertible. I forget who makes these hardtops/trunk lids, but I believe the article said they were for sale. Just daydreaming . . .

 

[Tyler Townsley]

Remember, folks, the NCRS game is just a game. They're not rewarding originality; they rewarding the appearance of originality. If a 1953 Corvette was cobbled together from the parts of a dozen 1953 Corvettes and reassembled in a manner which was factory correct, it could win gold.

Those who pretend NCRS gold is "proof" of originality normally do so either in ignorance (willing or otherwise) or in search of profit.

-Mac

NCRS does not award 'Gold' awards Bloomington does. Two completely different organizations. NCRS awards Flight awards to cars offered for judging. Both have methods to recognize 'original' cars.

Tyler

 

[Loren Smith]

I guess I'm going to have to dig it out - my initial feelings is that this would have been an Engineering WO and that it probably would not have received a Styling Shop Order until it got there, but....
.

DocRebuild has a nice writeup on his website, with pictures:

Dr. Rebuild's Corvette Archive

 

[Mac]

NCRS does not award 'Gold' awards Bloomington does. Two completely different organizations. NCRS awards Flight awards to cars offered for judging. Both have methods to recognize 'original' cars.

Tyler

I know the difference but I wasn't striving for accuracy in describing the organizations or the names of the awards. I was trying to make a point about the pointlessness of it all... Shall I try again? :W

Top Flight and Gold awards are NOT for originality; they're for the illusion of factory correctness.

Originality can be recognized by the Bowtie and Survivor... or is it just the illusion of originality?

Analyze that!!

-Mac