All right, I'm sick of this... Let's have it: ZR-1 VS. LT-4

[CKA_Racing]

Well, here are my best 1/4 times in my stock LT4.

1/4 - 12.9@110mph
60ft - approx 2.0
Ran thru the traps in third gear
I dyno'd at 292HP. The Vette Doctors said that was a little low for an LT4. I know i had issues at the time with it. But can't see it dynoing more than 300HP.

I have nothing to add about the ZR1's performance since I don't own one. But it's one hell of an engine and i'd love to own one. But at this point in my life, a ZR1 is not for me. I don't have the $$$ to fix it if something major went wrong.

I'd have trouble getting anything back on the road if something went wrong.
:L

 

[cvette]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: All right, I'm sick of this... Let's have it: ZR-1 VS. LT-4

I don't agree. You have been removed Clint - remove me as a member of your LT5 Registry.

Anyone else?:eyerole

Jesus, I must have stumbled back to the Corvette Forum. Rob I know that A26B's comments were made in good humor. If you've got a shorter fuse than Troy Roberts has and can't take a little bit of kidding around without getting your panties in a bind than it's time for you to remove me also as at some point I'll probably crack a joke that might **** you off as well! See you all in Bowling Green!

 

[Rob]

Ok.....

From A26B:

Boy Rob, It's hard to be humble when you drive a ZR-1

We'll try harder!!

(Just to make sure, my comments are meant to be in good humor only)

My response:

Actually, no it isn't hard to be humble when driving a ZR-1. I love my ZR-1, but I don't feel the need to wear it on my chest like it's a badge of honor. It's a Corvette...nothing more, nothing less.

When someone asks me what kind of Corvette I own. I tell them "A 1990". I don't bother mentioning it's a ZR-1 because to me, the type of 1990 it is, is irrelevant.

Now....back to the original point of this thread which was the performance differences between the LT4 and ZR-1....

From A26B:

Very sorry, no offense intended

and then:

Rob, I respectfully request that you please remove me as a registered user of the forum.

And my responses:

Ok....done.
I didn't take it as being offensive. I just simply replied.

And then that was it.....so where were my responses to him so "harsh"? I didn't take his responses as being disrespectful and I didn't flame him in my responses.

 

[YESZREE]

Re: Re: All right, I'm sick of this... Let's have it: ZR-1 VS. LT-4

I don't think you can get a straight unbiased answer to your question. The reason is there are so many numbers out there about both cars. Look at old magazine articles and the times are all different.

Sometimes on paper a car looks like it should have the definate advantage but the under dog ends up being the better performer for any combination of reasons more than just horsepower alone.

I think that these cars are matched close enough that it depends mainly on who is doing the driving and how they are willing to drive the car.

I have never driven a ZR1. But stock for stock, I wouldn't shy away from running my LT4 against one or a Z06. If I knew my car better than they did theirs I could win.

Basically both are fast cars. So when it comes to either one of them, "Fear None, Respect All"

That's a true fact, about knowing your car well enough to have it perform to it's potential.

When I first got my ZR-1 (and I've had about 5 or 6 C4's) it was very different from the rest. I lost to an 87 coupe because I couldn't shift to second without missing it, as I wasn't used to the stiffer clutch.

The first time I ran my altered (which runs in the high 8 sec category) I ran a 10.35!!!!!

Another thing, ZR-1 owners DO get carried away with enormous amounts of bravado concerning these cars and the vs categories against other Corvettes. I'm one of them. And it is hard to be humble. So if I have bullied my way around this forum concerning any issue with the ZR cars I apologize.

I'd much rather save the bravado for use against Fords!

 

[YESZREE]

Ed, I think it was fairly obvious from the content of my post that I was aware this topic had been "run into the ground", hence the title "I'm sick of this..." In fact, that was my whole reason for posting this. I felt like a lot of people were beating around the bush, and I wanted some more direct facts.

Thank you to Rob, and everyone else, for your diplomatic and informative responses.

I find the variable stock LT4 numbers Rob cited to very interesting. How can some plants have up to 40 more horsepower straight out of the factory? That doesn't seem possible. Maybe 10-15, but 40?

Also, I am sure this is on the website here somewhere, but what are the weights of the two cars? I didn't think the LT5 would add that much weight, because it is an aluminum block.

I guess I am still shocked at how close the two cars are. I have been a huge fan of the ZR-1 for quite some time, and never gave the LT4 a second look. I would see the 330 hp rating, and think "eh, that's pretty good", but there was nothing to ever make me look into it any further.

And after all of this better low-end torque talk for the LT4, the ZR-1 still consistently turns in better 0-60 times, so there's that.

However, my respect for the LT4 has grown significantly, as in from nothing to total respect, within the past 24 hours. Thanks a lot guys.



Brett

The varied horsepower is a reality. I had my stock 91ZR-1 dynoed last weekend and with 73 deg. F. intake air it was 420 flywheel hp and 370 rear wheel HP with 390 ft. lbs. of torque. That was at 5600rpm. This car pulls strong to 7200 rpm. My perticular test the HP fell off drastically after 5600 due to my intake air duct had collapsed from the suction of the trottle body. I'm trying to correct that as we speak.

Don't know why the variation of HP but it,s true. I've heard of ZR-1 owners having to install headers before they got stats like I had. Go figure?

 

[Interceptor430]

Wow....a bunch of :argue stuff going on here too?

Maybe most everyone should write 'I love Corvettes'
100 times....then read it 100 times.

Can we not have 'Peace'?

 

[Rob]

Re: Re: Re: All right, I'm sick of this... Let's have it: ZR-1 VS. LT-4

That's a true fact, about knowing your car well enough to have it perform to it's potential.

When I first got my ZR-1 (and I've had about 5 or 6 C4's) it was very different from the rest. I lost to an 87 coupe because I couldn't shift to second without missing it, as I wasn't used to the stiffer clutch.

The first time I ran my altered (which runs in the high 8 sec category) I ran a 10.35!!!!!

Another thing, ZR-1 owners DO get carried away with enormous amounts of bravado concerning these cars and the vs categories against other Corvettes. I'm one of them. And it is hard to be humble. So if I have bullied my way around this forum concerning any issue with the ZR cars I apologize.

I'd much rather save the bravado for use against Fords!

Ed,

I agree with you, that there is a lot of bravado when it comes to ZR-1 owners - and it's quite obvious, that based upon the responses of some of the owners in this thread, they live and die by the ZR-1 which is, in my opinion, unfortunate.

The intent of the posts I made at the beginning of this thread was to keep that bravado in check which was also requested by Brett - the author of this thread. Obviously, a few select individuals didn't like that. Well....I'm sorry, but just like Dave Bright's ZR-1 Net, there are rules here which I ask members to abide by. Since this is a free service, I don't think I'm asking too much and if someone disagrees, then they are welcome to pickup their toys and go play in someone else's sandbox.

Brett asked for the facts and not the bravado. My replies were not meant as attacks on you or anyone else. I just find it rather ironic that a couple of the people pointing the finger of blame at me - really should look at themselves in the mirror when they respond back to other people on other public forums like the ZR-1 Net. My responses were not even close to the harshness voiced by them in their responses to others, but whatever.....when you're on the internet in a public setting - people's true intentions and personalities show through loud and clear.

I think this issue has been pounded on way too much and this is the last time I'll speak of it.

Unless anyone else has anything to add regarding the overall weight of an LT4 Corvette vs. a ZR-1 and their respective performance figures, lets move on.

By the way Ed....I drive a Ford F150 pickup truck which I happen to like quite a bit. ROFL :L :L :L

 

[LT4hitsthespot]

Re: Re: Re: Re: All right, I'm sick of this... Let's have it: ZR-1 VS. LT-4

By the way Ed....I drive a Ford F150 pickup truck which I happen to like quite a bit. ROFL :L :L :L

We won't hold it against you..........well not too much.

 

[Rob]

We won't hold it against you..........well not too much.

Oh go ahead....I've already been accused of being contradictory, draconian, and doing my own chest pounding....what's one more thing to hold against me? LOL :L :L

I know it's a F**d, but she has been good to me.

 

[Wamp]

its ok Rob

It's ok Rob, we wont hold the FORD against you. When you drive it do you duck down when a vette passes?

My wife bought a windstar (minivan- someone shoot me!!), when it knocks and whines and clunks she says "what was that" to the maintainer of vehicles (me). My reply "it's a FORD, It's suppose to do that"!

 

[Rob]

Re: its ok Rob

It's ok Rob, we wont hold the FORD against you. When you drive it do you duck down when a vette passes?

:L Nope. I drool over the Vette just like every other Ford owner!

 

[vettepilot]

Re: its ok Rob

It's ok Rob, we wont hold the FORD against you. When you drive it do you duck down when a vette passes?

My wife bought a windstar (minivan- someone shoot me!!), when it knocks and whines and clunks she says "what was that" to the maintainer of vehicles (me). My reply "it's a FORD, It's suppose to do that"!

I thought everybody knew that...:duh

That was good, this thread needed some humor injection... otherwise known as "HI"... hence HI performance Ford

vettepilot

 

[CKA_Racing]

Re: Re: All right, I'm sick of this... Let's have it: ZR-1 VS. LT-4

Oh go ahead....I've already been accused of being contradictory, draconian, and doing my own chest pounding....what's one more thing to hold against me? LOL :L :L

I know it's a F**d, but she has been good to me.

Well, I'll take on your Ford with my Dodge Ram 2500. You think a tug of war contest will work. Oops forgot, I only have two wheel drive... I'll loose.

Anyways, I had my 96 weight taken at Mason Dixon dragway last fall. The scale said 3498. Does not seem right. I had less than half of tank of gas. I don't weight allot. Keep in mind they were having major problems with the scale.


Rob, keep up the good work on keeping this site going. :bar

 

[Brett]

Well, for what it is worth, I checked the weight of the '96 Grand Sports in Gran Turismo 3 on PS2, because they offer this car in the game (not the ZR-1 though ).

For those of you that don't know, Gran Turismo is THE driving game simulator, and they get all of their vehicles stats from the real car companies. Real car engine sounds, real car physics, Skip Barber Racing School edited--this is not just a "video game".

Still, there is no guarantee this is the real weight, but who knows? It gives us a starting point.

They list it as 1496 kilograms.

The only other stock Corvette in the game is the '01 Z06, which they list at 1409 kg.

I forget exactly how to convert kilos to pounds, but there you go.



Brettt

 

[CKA_Racing]

Yeah man, I play Grand Turismo 2. Cool Game. I built a kick butt CRX and a killer Yellow ZR1. Cool game.

Hmm... How accurate do you guys think the weight scales at the landfill would be. I can chuck a plastic bag filled with newspaper and go throught the scales at my county landfill. It's also free to get in which is a good thing.

 

[Wegone]

Here are the weights out of my owners book and off my build sheet.. I'm sure whats on the build sheet is as shipped from the factory..both tops plus what ever else came with it.

Owners...3465lbs.
Build Sheet shipped ... 3959lbs.
1991 Car & Driver review...3519lbs
1989 MotorTrend review...3465lbs.

 

[BBB454]

Wow....a bunch of :argue stuff going on here too?

Funny, it seems to have gotten alot worse over the last month or so...

In support of Rob, I don't think he was too harsh at all, he just answered the previous post. One reason I can think of for not mentioning more than the year of your Corvette when asked, is that most non-Corvette people don't have a clue what a ZR-1 is anyway. However, here at the CAC he should put it in his profile...

Anyway, I'm going to take this thread a little off course and ask - how do you think my car would stack up to a ZR-1 or Z06 in a 0-60 or 1/4 mile match? I already know I'd lose on a top end run because I was only able to go 135 on the dyno. The dyno said she's got 285 rwhp @ 4250 and 423 ft lbs @ 2750. She feels like she could pull a Mac truck, but I just don't know if she could stand up to the newer beasts out there... (and I haven't gotten up the courage to go to a track yet).

 

[luvmy92]

That's a ton of torque, and with good traction you should pull one out of the whole, and maybe thru the 1/8th mile. But I think they will run you down before the finish line. Of course, this is only one man's opinion.

I would be interested to see what that big block could do at the track, however...

Mike

 

[LT4hitsthespot]

I think you could get a really good jump and beat it atleast in the 1/4 IF you could get traction. C3's just don't have big enough tires to get the traction. I haven't dyno'd my C3 but would est. it is around 300 Hp problem is my 265-50-15 tires just too easy to break loose.

Take it to a track on the test and tune days. They're all starting to open up pretty soon.

 

[BBB454]

Wouldn't the rear end gears make a difference too, when comparing the ZR1 vs. LT4 (and mine, for that matter)?

Do all ZR1s have the same rear end and if so, what is it? How about the LT4s?

Mine's a 3.08.

Barb