Antique Black & Decker Valve Grinding Machine

[toobroketoretire]

I got it fully restored to "like new" condition and it runs great. It'll handle valves down to a 5/16" stem but won't handle the smaller Honda and Briggs & Stratton valves unless I sleeve them first. The three motors use brushes and will operate on 110 volts AC or DC. I may never use it but if the need comes up I'll have it. And I can use it for other things. I have about $600 in it so I came out okay. I'm still waiting for three new belts and a grinding stone to arrive and they should be here by the middle of next week. As an experiment I'm using antifreeze for coolant/lubricant. I'm still planning on diving into my engine around the middle of October when it's cooler. With the larger valves my 454" should produce a bit more power on the upper end.

 

[Antz81]

I think we need to rename this forum to C3 technical, performance and whatever tbtr decides to post.

 

[Mac]

You gotta admit it's a kind of cool looking antique...

Mac

 

[LLC5]

I wouldn't buy into anything he posts, all the pictures that he has posted could easily be photo shopped.

I still think TBTR is probably some six year old middle eastern adolescent just trying to get internet hits.

 

[toobroketoretire]

Vintage Black & Decker Valve Grinding Machine

The carriage NOW moves from side-to-side easily but the foreword to backward is still pretty stiff. When I got it the carriage was REAL hard to move in either direction but the more I oil it and work it the freer it is getting. From the looks of it I would guess it sat unused for a very long time. The USPS tracking is indicating several more parts will arrive this morning and that includes an owners manual for the machine. The large motor has ball bearings in it and it spins VERY fast. From the sound of it I would guess over 6000 rpm but as I have an IR tachometer I'll measure it's speed. Sure looks cool sitting on my workbench.

 

[kpic]

I'm still planning on diving into my engine around the middle of October when it's cooler. With the larger valves my 454" should produce a bit more power on the upper end.

This may be a stupid question. Do you plan on installing used valves? When installing larger valves, most folks buy new ones?
Usually, bigger valves do not usually drop in. Depending on the valve seat insert, often most of the work is in the cylinder head.

That said, good looking machine.

 

[LLC5]

This may be a stupid question. Do you plan on installing used valves? When installing larger valves, most folks buy new ones?
Usually, bigger valves do not usually drop in. Depending on the valve seat insert, often most of the work is in the cylinder head.

That said, good looking machine.

The pictures are nice.

Whose they really are...........

 

[kpic]

The pictures are nice.

Whose they really are...........

Time will tell.

 

[Antz81]

The large motor has ball bearings in it and it spins VERY fast. From the sound of it I would guess over 6000 rpm but as I have an IR tachometer I'll measure it's speed.

Tbtr don't run those motors with no load on them. They theoretically have no maximum speed, and can continue to accelerate until they destroy themselves.

 

[Crimson Thunder]

Why are you installing bigger valves in your heads? You stated in another post that you never rev past 3500 rpm.

 

[toobroketoretire]

Compression Ratios Approaching 7 To 1

I ended up taking the upper carriage off to see why it was so hard to move. The shaft had about 75 years worth of stiff gummy crud stuck to it and the four oil caps were plugged with crud. After a thorough clean up and lube job it's easy to move. I just received an instruction manual for this machine but 90% of the information is about how to inspect valve guides and how to grind seats. But as I was reading it I burst out laughing when I read "A few years ago most compression ratios were around 4 to 1 but now days our modern engines have compression ratios approaching 7 to 1".

It didn't come with the stone dressing attachment but I can make one that mounts into the valve stem chuck then use the diamond dresser for my valve seat grinding set. And it also didn't have the rocker arm grinding attachment but I'll never have a use for one. It can also resurface lifters but I would never do it.

 

[kpic]

So you are buying used valves for your project; is there a reason??

You do understand new valves don't need anything because, well, they are new...

 

[stevolwevol]

So you are buying used valves for your project; is there a reason??

You do understand new valves don't need anything because, well, they are new...

I remember back in the 70's, I (and others I new) ground the old valves, with what I was taught was better than factory grind. I don't remember what the specs were, but we did it, and it worked. If the rods, pistons, valves were in good condition, we reused them.

 

[kpic]

I remember back in the 70's, I (and others I new) ground the old valves, with what I was taught was better than factory grind. I don't remember what the specs were, but we did it, and it worked. If the rods, pistons, valves were in good condition, we reused them.

Key point, you reground old valves. However, I doubt you reground brand new valves as TBTR proposes. After all, as the valve is new why bother?? All that is required is lapping.

I've installed larger than stock valves and most of the work is in the seat replacement and cylinder head runner matching to the new diameters.
Often the bowls need re-contoured. When installing larger valves, the runners in the cylinder heads need some tweaking or they become a choke point for air flow.
The original cast runners in the head are sized to fit the stock valve seat diameter. If the diameter of the valve seat insert increases; there will be a choke point which limits flow..

 

[toobroketoretire]

My valve stem tip grinding wheel came today but I'm still missing the three 3L-210 Gates belts that I ordered a week ago. I installed the old belts just so I could power the machine and it did a good job grinding an old intake valve using straight antifreeze for the coolant/lubricant. As it takes almost forever for antifreeze to evaporate I thought I'd try it.

As these machines are so darned heavy (190 pounds) I found most sellers are stating "local pick up only" so that is one of the main reasons I picked this machine. But I did have to pay an additional $75 for some kind of "fuel tax" California has imposed on shipping companies bringing goods into this state. When it comes to ripping people off NOBODY does it better than California (aka the welfare state).

 

[kpic]

TBTR:
That is nice; are you going to explain why you bought a valve refinisher unless you plan on using used valves? I know this may sound far fetched to you; but personally I've always used new valves...

When you start your project you'll discover most of the work to install OS valves is in the cylinder head.

 

[toobroketoretire]

My three 3L-210 Gates belts arrived this morning and I made a diamond holder yesterday so I can dress the valve grinding wheel. Now maybe I can find a use for this cool machine some day.

 

[kpic]

Now maybe I can find a use for this cool machine some day.

Hopefully not re-doing new valves.

Personally, as you're going with significantly larger valves, I'd replace the seats with ones that are designed for the valves you will be using..

As my main man, Forrest Gump said:
That's All I Have To Say About That- Forrest Gump Quote

 

[toobroketoretire]

Missing Splash Guard

I discovered this machine is not 100% complete as I thought it was. It's missing the "splash guard" that prevents the coolant from splashing on the lower carriage. The original splash guard was made from an aluminum casting and the chance of finding a used one is very slim. I've been looking things over and know I can make one using sheet metal and a 4" piece of 3/16" steel tubing (for where it pivots). I'll start on the fabrication tomorrow morning and see what I come up with. Other than that one missing part this machine is complete which is a rarity because most of these used machines are missing parts.

 

[LLC5]

Other than that one missing part this machine is complete which is a rarity because most of these used machines are missing parts.

Kind of like the one you have.