Bowtie Overdrive 2004R

[KANE]

Jeremy,

The 2004R is supposed to match better with the lower gears on both ends where the 700R4 is supposed to match the larger gears better.

Bob

Bob-

The 200R4 was the bullet-proof tranny found in the Buick Grand National, GNX, and T-type. Nice, fluid acceleration.

For an engine with GOBS of torque... the 700 works well. Unfortunately it needs a LOT of torque to get past the wide spread of ratios. It lives in the low end.

However, the 200 is tight and really accelerates well as the gears are closer together. Great for a free reving V8.

It is like comparing manual transmissions- a close ratio compared to a wide ratio.

 

[Bob Chadwick]

Torque Converter: 2200 Heavy Duty 1$175.00
Crossmember: 68-79 Corvette Standard rubber mounts1$195.00
Shifter: 77-81 Corvette SC2403 1$90.00
Inspection Cover: 2004R Univ. plastic 1$25.00
Dipstick: 2004R 1$30.00
TV System: Quadrajet [1902/1903/1904/1905/1906] Throttle Bracket Duel Non Braided1$119.95
TCC Wiring: TCC Brake Switch Kit 1$28.00
Transmission Lines: 2004R Side Tank, 1$129.00
Speedometer Gears: New Set 2004R Drive/Driven Gears Drive Gear: Driven Gear: 1$46.60
Installation ToolsCost
Install Kit(Pressure Gauge Blk Temp Gauge Inline Filter)$67.00
Misc ItemsCost

I'm getting ready to order the parts and am beginning to question whether or not I need all these parts. Can everyone give me some feedback?

Do I really need a new torque converter?

I have the removable cross member with the two holes in it for exhaust. I thought that this cross member was compatible with the 2004R.

Why do I need new trans lines? Are the connections points different than on the TH350?

 

[Ludigdrums]

I just recently did this in my '81 with the 700R4. I got mine from the junk yard and used the torque converter that it came with. I'm not sure about your crossmember, but the thing that might get in the way is the parking brake pulley. As far as the trans lines, mine were definitely different...HOWEVER, the 200 is supposed to me more similar to the 350 than the 700 is. I had to have my drive shaft shortened, but yours should not need that. So, getting back to the tranny lines, you might not need them because the size is similar to the 350, but don't quote me on this one as I am only speculating.

You will definitely need the dipstick. One heads up on this...once you have everything in (including the dipstick) leave the pan off the tranny and mark a line on the dipstick for full. For some reasons, even when you have it bolted correctly (and the stick tube has a built in bumb out so you can't put it in too far) it still might not be accurate with the lines on the stick. I did not do realize this until I already have the fluid in and everything.

Before you order the speedo gears, check to see which ones are already in there. You might already have the ones you need. The only thing that you might need is the conversion from electric to gear driven speedo (depending on what year the tranny came from).

That's all I can think of right now. Please feel free to contact me with any further questions. Also, keep in mind that mine was a 700 which is a longer trans, so some things may be different from my experience.

Good luck!

- Jeremy

 

[Bob Chadwick]

Thanks Jeremy. It already has the dipstick but I'll remember that trick.

 

[bossvette]

Bob
I would use the lock-up, I will be putting a small motor in my C3 so my Wife and Son can drive it and will be using a painless kit to control the lock-up.
I wouldn't buy too much extra stuff, just wait and see what you need as you go.

Trans lines you can make yourself from a piece of bulk line from the local auto parts store and a tube bender and flare tool if you don't already have these tools thay come in mighty handy.

 

[Evolution1980]

Bob,

I have the 700R4 (Level 3) from BTO in my car. I didn't have a chance to read the entire thread, as I'm here at work. But if you have any specific questions, you can shoot me an email or PM and I can answer 'em for ya.

Quickly speaking, from my understanding, the 200 and the 700 are the same except for mounting point (which changes the length of the driveshaft and the crossmember placement.) The only difference internally is the gearing. The 700 has a more agressive ("taller") first gear, so you'll get a bit more oomph off the line, but after that they're the same.

If you got a fairly new 200R4 for $200, then you STOLE it or it's defective :L

It's imperative that you get the TV cable setup correctly, otherwise the car won't shift correctly and you can burn up the tranmissions. Also, you'll need to spend some time in the dash redoing the shift linkage, as your current shift gate is not compatible since you'll be going from 3 steps (1-2-D) to 4 steps (1-2-3-D). This also entails finding the reverse position for the backup lights and also adjust the switch for Park/Neutral engine start. It's not just a plug & play conversion.

As for the TV cable, C4C5Specialist gave me info on getting a self-adjusting TV cable setup which should eliminate BTO's setup. My only question is (and I forgot to ask Paul this) "If this atuo-adjustment setup exists, how come no one is using it???" I plan on looking into it this year though. As my transmission and TV cable wear in, it's naturally changing the shift characteristics of the transmission. (I'll dip into my PM's and grab that post from Paul/C4C5Specialist and post it here.)

Here is the PM from Paul:
The TV cable part number is 25515598.
The bracket is discontinued from GM, but your application would be a 84-88 Caprice Classic, with a 5.0 engine with a 700r4 transmission, carbed.
This should let you get a used bracket from a junkyard.

 

[Bob Chadwick]

I ordered the parts from Bowtie today. Should be here by next Friday and with any luck it will be in in a week. In time for Cruisefest.

Thanks for the info Andre. I just went with what Bowtie has for the TV set up. I just don't have time to go digging through the junkyard.

I didn't order the trans lines Craig after reading what you posted. I planned on getting the lockup kit and went with the relay one as it is necessary when you have cruise.

 

[Evolution1980]

I believe when you go to install the TV setup, it's a two person job. One person needs to be fully on the throttle while the other one adjusts the TV cable. ...among other little tidbits of info you may come across..

And good call on not buying their trans lines. I had to do as much 'custom' bending as I would've if I didn't order their custom bent lines... what a pain that was!

 

[Bob Chadwick]

I'll make sure the garage knows that. I decided to get it done. I just don't have the time. Work is killing me and may son has baseball three days a week.

 

[Bob Chadwick]

It's in

I picked it up from the shop today and got to drive it on the surface streets back to work.

First impressions. Much more solid shifts. Boom, boom, boom through first, second and third.

The overdrive is strictly a freeway gear, particularly with a 3:08 rear end. 1,500 rpm at 50 mph. It's difficult to keep it under 45 on the four lane surface streets.

Doesn't seem to pull any better with the lower first gear but that is probably because of the freeway gear in the rear end.

Gives me an excuse to put some taller gears in it next year.

I'll post again later this weekend about freeway driving.

Transmission, ancillary parts (which add up) and installation for under $1,500. The existing cross member worked and the drive shaft did not have to be cut.

 

[Evolution1980]

The overdrive is strictly a freeway gear, particularly with a 3:08 rear end. 1,500 rpm at 50 mph. It's difficult to keep it under 45 on the four lane surface streets.

This can be adjusted via the TV cable linkage. It determines where/when it shifts.

Actually, the screw itself won't move, but the key/plate/whatever will...

The existing cross member worked and the drive shaft did not have to be cut.

That sounds very strange...That's normally the case with a 200R4, not a 700R4...
:confused

 

[Red69]

Excellent and informative thread guys, but I have some questions. In a few weeks I plan on installing a BTO 2004R level 2 complete trans package in my 79 L82 that has a 3.70 gear. The stock engine has been rebuilt with close to 300 HP and I plan to bracket race it. My drive to the track takes 2 hours, so I need the OD gear.

BTO recommends I use their level 3 trans for racing, but this seems like overkill. I suspect they just want to cover their butts by selling me their strongest unit. Even if I replace the engine with a 400 HP ZZ4 next year it will be well withing the described power range of the level 2 model. Additional parasitic power loss is a concern however. Anybody know how the parasitic HP loss from the 2004R compares to the THM350? How about between level 2-3?

My BTO order sheet reads similar to what they gave Bob C and posted earlier in this thread. For transmission lines BTO said use existing lines. I assumed they meant they were a plug and play. If not, how much bending is necessary to make the stock trans cooling lines work? If it takes considerable massaging, I will just buy new lines that fit. Any comments or suggestions before I start this swap is appreciated. Also, anyone with a track performance report would be great. BTW, I will also be using BTO's tubular crossmember to eliminate the porthole exhaust issue.

 

[Evolution1980]

Red69, supposedly the 200R4 is pretty much plug & play. As far as I know, there aren't any modifications that need to be made. All the trans lines and everything should bolt right up. There would be only 2 concerns that I can think of right at this moment. Should you break a line or fitting, that'll have to be fixed. Also, I believe that BTO requires the inline filter for the first 500 miles (which is just a good idea, requried or not). This will obviously cause you to have to do some reworking of your existing translines. However, it should be as 'simple' as cutting out a section of line and putting the filter in place with some highpressure rubber hose and clamps.

 

[Red69]

Thanks Evolution, I'm working my way to have all bases covered with no surprises after receiving the BTO trans kit. I am curious if Bob C bought the shifter detent kit and how well it works. A stock appearing shifter is important to me.

 

[Bob Chadwick]

This can be adjusted via the TV cable linkage. It determines where/when it shifts.

That sounds very strange...That's normally the case with a 200R4, not a 700R4...
:confused

I have the 2004R not the 700R4.

I don't think it is a shift point issue. I think it is because the 3:08 are geared toward the highway and it needs a smaller gear. The shift points seem fine.

 

[Bob Chadwick]

For transmission lines BTO said use existing lines. I assumed they meant they were a plug and play. If not, how much bending is necessary to make the stock trans cooling lines work? If it takes considerable massaging, I will just buy new lines that fit. Any comments or suggestions before I start this swap is appreciated.

Also, anyone with a track performance report would be great. BTW, I will also be using BTO's tubular crossmember to eliminate the porthole exhaust issue.

The existing lines took a little massaging but were used.

I'm not sure what you mean by the porthole exhaust issue. The existing cross member worked perfectly.

 

[Red69]

The existing lines took a little massaging but were used.
Besides the inline filter, was there much bending required to route the lines?

I'm not sure what you mean by the porthole exhaust issue. The existing cross member worked perfectly.

For simplifying future work, I don't want to deal with the exhaust through the portholes. They really make life difficult. Check out the crossmember on the Drag Vet website

I have a crossover- balance tube, so dropping the exhaust is nearly impossible with closed portholes in the crossmember.

 

[Bob Chadwick]

Gotcha. I have the holes in the cross member and they just dropped the whole cross member to change the trans. Obviously that is not viable for you.

 

[Evolution1980]

I have the 2004R not the 700R4.

I don't think it is a shift point issue. I think it is because the 3:08 are geared toward the highway and it needs a smaller gear. The shift points seem fine.

Oh yeah, sorry. I just re-read the original post. The guy you bought it from switched to a 700R4. You got his original 200R4. I'm clear now!

 

[Art Jett]

Red79, I ordered a level 2 700R-4 from Bowtie and they said it was plenty strong enough for the 425+ hp 383 I'm going to be running.