Question: C4 tune up

[aklim]

]I think static time is what a wrench does (or hack like myself) does when in the dark, and has no clue what all the problems are...
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Not necessarily. It is done to eliminate problems. I used to have a lack of power issue. Checked this and that but didn't check timing. Moron advanced it to 19 degrees. ad

 

[Schrade]

BARTRIC! I GOT IT!

Change the air freshener!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (it's stale YUP)

TA-DAAAAAAAA

 

[bartric]

Well, first off, we changed the gasket between the crossfire plate and intake manifold (diamond shaped thing) because... well there wasn't even a gasket there, just a bunch of sealant junk that wasn't doing a very good job in the first place. This made it run better, but also, when you try to rev it up, it acts like it's getting bogged down, and starts missing or something, like it's getting flooded.

Also, tried timing it with the EST wire unplugged, timed it successfully, and it would idle just fine, then we plugged back in the wire, and it stopped running so well, then after we shut it off, it wouldn't restart unless we moved the timing counter-clockwise a bit. (Back to where it use to be around 40-ish).

Shrade, we're going to check compression tomorrow, also, dad says he's not sure about the static timing thing, can you give more information over it? We're going to check to make sure it's not off by a tooth tomorrow also.

Wait, wait, what am I thinking. It probably IS the air freshener, I'll be right on that, thank you Shrade (I'd die if I actually changed it and my car ran perfectly fine).

 

[aklim]

40?? Timing is set at 6 deg not 40.:confused

 

[Schrade]

I guess the description was short, so I'll try again here...

MARK THE PLUG WIRES, and pull the plugs, to make it easier to spin the block by hand. It will still be hard, but get a long breaker bar, with whatever size socket is on the damper hub - someone else might know. Spin the block to the '0' mark.



The #1 piston will be top dead center - at this point you don't know if it's blow or fire, but that doesn't matter; you'll see why in a moment.

MARK with chalk or tape the distributor cap-to-base position. Try to get the tape/mark at the #1 cylinder position in the cap. Slice the tape, and pull the distributor cap, just enough to see the rotor.

The rotor should be JUST AFTER the mark/tape for the #1 cap contact, ON THE SIDE OF THE #8 CAP CONTACT.

If it is not at the #1, it will be 180 degrees, halfway around, just past #6, on the #5 side.

If it is not in either of these 2 positions, the distributor is off by a tooth (probably).

IF IT IS not in either of those positions:
CAREFULLY lift out the distributor - it will want to turn as you pull it up, but try to keep the base in the same position, and let the distributor SHAFT rotate as you pull it up.

Then turn the shaft slowly in whatever direction is necessary to get it in position as described above, and re-insert. It's tricky, since it's wanting to turn still.

Tighten the base, and make sure the shaft itself has no rotate-play in it (I should have said check that at first...).

Post back when you get that part done.
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[bartric]

40?? Timing is set at 6 deg not 40.:confused

That's the point, It jumps the timing up to 40 and that's the only place I can get it to run when the EST is plugged in.


Alright Schrade, I'll get back to you tomorrow when we've went through all the stuff you've mentioned. We'll get it figured out somehow. By the way, thank you for being so much help. You're amazing, and a genius.

 

[geekinavette]

Have you checked the balancer mark against #1 TDC (compression stroke)? The outer ring of a stock balancer is notorious for slipping.

 

[Schrade]

geek is right there, bartric...

If the ring with the mark for timing has slipped on the pulley balancer, the test I described is useless for static timing.

If that's happened, I don't know how you zero TDC???

 

[bartric]

Well, like I said, I'll have my dad read over all this stuff tomorrow before we go out there to mess with it some more, and then we'll get back to you about what we found out.

 

[Jeb]

geek is right there, bartric...

If the ring with the mark for timing has slipped on the pulley balancer, the test I described is useless for static timing.

If that's happened, I don't know how you zero TDC???

You find TDC physically by making sure the #1 cyl is at TDC by using a pencil or something to actually feel when the top of the piston is at the top of the stroke and then remark the flywheel by scratching it or otherwise making a new timing mark for TDC.

 

[Schrade]

You find TDC physically by making sure the #1 cyl is at TDC by using a pencil or something to actually feel when the top of the piston is at the top of the stroke and then remark the flywheel by scratching it or otherwise making a new timing mark for TDC.

How many degrees within '0' can you get that way?

Is the crankshaft notch for the pulley key at '0'?
edit:
apparently the notch is not at '0' link

I found a post too by vetteoz in 3gen.org saying timing mark is not on the crankshaft notch.


and you could get fire coming back up the intake, if you have 2 spark plug wires mis-routed - check them

 

[geekinavette]

Close enough to determine if the balancer outer ring has slipped.

If the balancer is original and has not slipped, yes the notch is at 0 deg. Balancers vary though...if it needs replacing it MUST be checked against #1 TDC.

It is also imperative to make sure TDC is compression stroke, not exhaust! This can be a little tricky if the exhaust valve closes before TDC of the exhaust stroke (not uncommon)...as it'll build just a little bit of cylinder pressure as the piston approaches TDC in this case.

 

[bartric]

Was going to check compression, but gauge doesn't have the right fitting for it. But, while checking all the plugs, we found the #7 had a decent amount of carbon deposit on it, we assume either it's not firing well, or the exhaust valve isn't seating right. If it's the latter, I'm probably just going to pull the engine and completely rebuild it, just to make it more simple on myself.

 

[Schrade]

That might not be necessary; perhaps only headwork.

I think that if an exhaust valve was holding open, the exhaust would make the ex manifold start to glow. Never seen it myself, but some say headers WILL glow.

But maybe still do the compression test. If it's got balanced squeeze in all 8 holes, and there's not too much bleeddown, there's not much reason to pull it.

If your compression is good, but DOES NOT hold, then maybe do rings with the motor in the car, while the heads are off, and being replaced/re-worked at a reputable speed shop. I have a ring compressor that you're welcome to for postage.

Any luck on the static timing tests?

Anybody here... How do you check the rings for blow-by?

 

[aklim]

Anybody here... How do you check the rings for blow-by?

I would do a leakdown test to see if anything leaks in the head itself. If that is good, do a compression test and then repeat the test after squirting oil in it. If the compression goes up significantly, I would suspect that the oil is helping it seal better and hence it leaks there.

 

[geekinavette]

I have seen exhaust manifolds glow red...it is definitely possible. Lots of factors determine exhaust gas temperature though...something as simple as changing the valve timing a few degrees can have a rather large effect on EGT (by changing dynamic compression ratio, and cylinder pressure as a result). Ignition timing and air/fuel ratio also play a big role.

 

[bartric]

@Shrade, yes, headwork is all that would be required, but if I'm going to pull off the intake and heads, why not go ahead and pull the engine, I'd only be a short way from having the engine completely apart anyway. Just figure if I'm going that far, might as well go the whole way. Plus I'd rather have all new gaskets and rings, etc. Than replace everything down to the head gaskets and then so many thousand miles down the road have to pull the engine anyway and replace something. Basically, I'd rather have everything up to date than some things with 0 miles and others with 80k.

As far as what it is, I'll get on it and check it all, and go through your guys list of tests, probably not today, but soon. Space heaters only do so much when it's snowing :/

 

[Schrade]

@Shrade, yes, headwork is all that would be required, but if I'm going to pull off the intake and heads, why not go ahead and pull the engine, I'd only be a short way from having the engine completely apart anyway. Just figure if I'm going that far, might as well go the whole way. Plus I'd rather have all new gaskets and rings, etc. Than replace everything down to the head gaskets and then so many thousand miles down the road have to pull the engine anyway and replace something. Basically, I'd rather have everything up to date than some things with 0 miles and others with 80k.

As far as what it is, I'll get on it and check it all, and go through your guys list of tests, probably not today, but soon. Space heaters only do so much when it's snowing :/

SPACE HEATERS?

Isn't the Global Warming enough for ya'???

 

[sstearns2]

Alright, so recently I've been pondering cranking some extra ponies out of my cars engine (at least eventually), and I was thinking about putting either twin turbo's on it, or a supercharger, and my question is, does anyone know where you can get these kinds of things cheaply, I most definitely do not want to pay 1000+ for this stuff, read somewhere about junk yards. Also, what all parts would I need to be pulling off the car if I did go to a junk yard?

I'd just sell it and buy a newer one. You might want to look at doing an LS-1 swap with one of the cheap truck versions from a junkyeard. I've seen articles showing you can do it pretty cheap, but still 1000s.

Cheers,
Scott

 

[bartric]

I'd just sell it and buy a newer one. You might want to look at doing an LS-1 swap with one of the cheap truck versions from a junkyeard. I've seen articles showing you can do it pretty cheap, but still 1000s.

Cheers,
Scott

You're a bit late on this... maybe you want to read the rest of the 8 pages, and not just the first post?