Cam Covers oil vent

[kaijumax]

Well, I've disassembled my top end, plenum and cam covers to send them out for refinishing and give the engine bay a good cleaning. While wiping and cleaning all the parts, preparing thenm for shipping, I noticed on the underside of the cam covers, that there is an oil vent baffle that seem's to be made of some SCOTCH BRITE type of material. I didn't want to leave it in there and when I tried to remove it, half of the material just crumbled and the other half was still pliable. I haven't seen the material posted at WhitesRacing or contacted them yet. By the way the half that crumble was directly in line with the vent. I could post a pic if need be. Any one who ever removed their covers see this happen too?

 

[91VETTEZR1]

Well, I've disassembled my top end, plenum and cam covers to send them out for refinishing and give the engine bay a good cleaning. While wiping and cleaning all the parts, preparing thenm for shipping, I noticed on the underside of the cam covers, that there is an oil vent baffle that seem's to be made of some SCOTCH BRITE type of material. I didn't want to leave it in there and when I tried to remove it, half of the material just crumbled and the other half was still pliable. I haven't seen the material posted at WhitesRacing or contacted them yet. By the way the half that crumble was directly in line with the vent. I could post a pic if need be. Any one who ever removed their covers see this happen too?

hi the foam is available from your gm dealer. it'sd fairly cheap(around $5) you need 2.
todd

 

[kaijumax]

Know a part number by chance or should I just tell them the application?
Thanks!

 

[Jeffvette]

10135879


Honestly, it's not needed.

 

[zr1rob]

Well, I've disassembled my top end, plenum and cam covers to send them out for refinishing and give the engine bay a good cleaning. While wiping and cleaning all the parts, preparing thenm for shipping, I noticed on the underside of the cam covers, that there is an oil vent baffle that seem's to be made of some SCOTCH BRITE type of material. I didn't want to leave it in there and when I tried to remove it, half of the material just crumbled and the other half was still pliable. I haven't seen the material posted at WhitesRacing or contacted them yet. By the way the half that crumble was directly in line with the vent. I could post a pic if need be. Any one who ever removed their covers see this happen too?

Youre right about the scotch brite looking stuff, only the original is orange colored and not as dense as the sb pad. its rectangular and about 2" long. its held in place by that small diameter metal rod crossing the void.

if you can get it from gm, its not that expensive, but not worth a whole lot of trouble. you could get by without it, though its purpose is to keep excess oil caused by blowby out of the throttle body.

 

[Hib Halverson]

10135879


Honestly, it's not needed.

How did you decide that foam oil separater is not needed?

 

[Jeffvette]

How did you decide that foam oil separater is not needed?

Running them like that in a few cars for a couple of years. No issues. And word from a couple of other builders.

 

[kaijumax]

I was able to get through WhitesRacing, I'll put them in since I have the covers off any way.

 

[Hib Halverson]

With all due respect, Jeffvette, just because you say you run like that doesn't lend that urban legend a lot of credibility. I think I'd like to hear from a much larger pool of users along with hearing something about how these engines with out the separators are used.

Can you give us a little insight to the duty cycle of your engine.

Who are these engine builders who's suggested it's ok to run without those parts?

 

[Jeffvette]

With all due respect, Jeffvette, just because you say you run like that doesn't lend that urban legend a lot of credibility. I think I'd like to hear from a much larger pool of users along with hearing something about how these engines with out the separators are used.

Ok, let's get all the ZR-1 users on the actioncenter involved.

Can you give us a little insight to the duty cycle of your engine.

Yea, over 100 mph burst everyday that it gets driven. Track days in the summer time.

Who are these engine builders who's suggested it's ok to run without those parts?

Known builders. Not divulging.

 

[4DSZR1]

Whats the purpose of the foam? A crude air-cleaner on a vent opening??

 

[Hib Halverson]

Known builders. Not divulging.

Yeah right..."known builders".
Typically, your statements lack credibility.

Whats the purpose of the foam? A crude air-cleaner on a vent opening?

No, the air filtering for air taken in by those pipes is supplied by the car's panel filter.

It's probably not news that the LT5 has marginal oil control (especially air-oil separation) at high rpm, WOT.

Those little squisy things stuck in that cavity in each cam cover are a sort of air-oil separator of last resort for the PCV system.

Yeah, in some situations you could run without them, but at high RPM (lots and lots of windage) and WOT (virtually no vacuum) when the PCV may reverse flow, they separate oil and air and prevent the TB from sucking in liquid oil droplets. You don't want oil droplets getting sucked in the TB because oil causes detonation.

 

[Jeffvette]

Yeah right..."known builders".
Typically, your statements lack credibility.

Credibility like yours? "Fluidyne is a drop in". "Brian Alspaugh makes the headers he sells" When was the last time you pulled apart a LT5?

No, the air filtering for air taken in by those pipes is supplied by the car's panel filter.

It's probably not news that the LT5 has marginal oil control (especially air-oil separation) at high rpm, WOT.

Those little squisy things stuck in that cavity in each cam cover are a sort of air-oil separator of last resort for the PCV system.

Yeah, in some situations you could run without them, but at high RPM (lots and lots of windage) and WOT (virtually no vacuum) when the PCV may reverse flow, they separate oil and air and prevent the TB from sucking in liquid oil droplets. You don't want oil droplets getting sucked in the TB because oil causes detonation.

Yea, because you don't want any oil getting into the plenum causing detonation. Because the hard line on the drivers side of the plenum does a good enough job coating the inside anyways.

Besides, the filters get real nasty once they start deteriorating. Or did you even know the filter breaks down?

 

[Hib Halverson]

Unfortunately, a distasteful part of life here at CAC and other forum web sites are folks like "Jeffvette"...angry juveniles who roam the site, stirring the pot of discontent, spreading rumors, posting inaccurate information and sometimes using the site to carry out vendettas against others.

Several years ago, when Brian Alspaugh's company began selling headers for LT5s, one of the product's first buyers, bought a lot of 10 sets. Ole Jeffvette was a customer of this early buyer, purchasing one of this person's set of ten. I've interviewed Mr. Alspaugh a couple of times in the last several years and one thing he's admitted is that, like many products as complex as headers for LT5s, very early examples had a few quality control issues and apparently, one of these less-than-perfect sets of Alspaugh Headers were in the lot of ten from where Jeffvette's set came.

Even though Jeffvette purchased his headers from a dealer and not direct from Mr. Alspaugh company, Alspaugh went to significant lengths to solve Jeffvette's problem. He sent Jeffvette a new set of headers and, in addition, made him a partial refund in an attempt to rectify the situation. That wasn't enough and it wasn't long before our pal Jeff embarked upon an anti-Alspaugh jihad. For years, he has continued to besmirch both Mr. Alspaugh's product and he personally all over the Internet with statements like "I got ripped-off", "the fit was poor" or "Buy Jeals, they fit perfectly, worth the extra (at the time) 700 bucks" to anyone who will listen.

In reality, what Jeffvette needs, ain't a set of headers. He needs to get a freakin' life.

For crissakes, I've bought my share of problematic parts but confronted with receiving a replacement *and* a partial refund, I'd move on.
(sigh)
But, we can only be so lucky.

One of the great things about a forum site like the Corvette Action Center is even guys like Jeffvette have a place to say, generally, anything they went. While it'd be nice if he'd spread his BS somewhere else, as long as the sites rules aren't violated, Rob Loszewski and the Moderators here at CAC welcome him with open arms, regardless of what verbal diarrhea he might post.

Now...my past statements about Brian Alspaugh's headers. I don't think I was implying that Brian, slaving over an arc welder, at night after working all day at his regular job, made each and every header himself. What I meant was that Mr. Alspaugh saw a need for a set of LT5 headers priced more reasonably than what was out there when he started his header business several years ago. He was personally involved in the prototype process. He then, subcontracted the production, ran the company, oversaw quality control (solving those early QC glitches in the process), made the sales, shipped the parts and handled customer service. Basically, Brian Alspaugh was a hands-on business owner putting a lot of care into his product. At this point in time, Brian Alspaugh's header business, while still existing, is lying low mainly because he wasn't protective enough of his design in the early years and, because of that shortsightedness, others were able to copy the design and undercut him in price. He still sells the LT5 headers--and, if I ever decide to add headers to my ZR-1, Alspaughs are the ones I'll install--but does no advertising and is no longer aggressively pursuing the business.

As for the Fluidyne radiator...

Back in 1999, on a contract basis, I did the product development of the Fluidyne High-Performance radiator for 90-96 Corvettes for Fluidyne's parent company, Thermal Dynamics, inc. Consequently, outside of some people who work at Fluidyne, there are few who know more about that product than myself and that includes the Jeffvettes of the world.

I designed the Fluidyne radiator for late C4s to be a drop-in fit for all 90-96 C4s.

In reality, IS it a drop-in for every single one of those 151,962 cars?
No, it is not. That would be impossible.

I've got anecdotal information that C4s which have sustained moderate to severe front end damage and were then repaired often experience fit problems with the Fluidyne--and many other radiators as well--because the front end underbody structure (which includes the cooling stack) may no longer be of stock dimensions and, when the dimensions of the radiator mounts are no longer the same as they were when the car was made, a radiator designed to fit a stock vehicle may no longer fit.

Secondly, because of a combination of 1) the structural parts of the C4 cooling stack being either plastic or rubber and 2) because the C4 frame was welded-up out of many smaller parts, there was car-to-car variation in frame dimensions. There are a few cars (mainly those with a combination of warped plastic/rubber cooling stack pieces and frames which measure on the low side dimensionally) where the Fluidyne radiator might not be a "drop-in" with a little bit of trimming, squishing or squeezing of parts required to get it to fit. All other aftermarket radiators for late-C4 are subject to the same problems and all other aftermarket radiators for C4, even when everything in the cooling stack is "normal," require some amount of trimming, cutting, other modification or even fabrication of additional parts to get them to fit whereas the Fluidyne does not.

The Fluidyne High-Performance radiator for 90-96 C4 has been in production almost seven years. Cases of radiators which truly did not fit are exceedingly rare and, to my knowledge, there never has been a case where a slight amount of trimming of cooling stack parts didn't remedy the problem.

 

[Jeffvette]

Unfortunately, a distasteful part of life here at CAC and other forum web sites are folks like "Jeffvette"...angry juveniles who roam the site, stirring the pot of discontent, spreading rumors, posting inaccurate information and sometimes using the site to carry out vendettas against others.

Several years ago, when Brian Alspaugh's company began selling headers for LT5s, one of the product's first buyers, bought a lot of 10 sets. Ole Jeffvette was a customer of this early buyer, purchasing one of this person's set of ten. I've interviewed Mr. Alspaugh a couple of times in the last several years and one thing he's admitted is that, like many products as complex as headers for LT5s, very early examples had a few quality control issues and apparently, one of these less-than-perfect sets of Alspaugh Headers were in the lot of ten from where Jeffvette's set came.

Even though Jeffvette purchased his headers from a dealer and not direct from Mr. Alspaugh company, Alspaugh went to significant lengths to solve Jeffvette's problem. He sent Jeffvette a new set of headers and, in addition, made him a partial refund in an attempt to rectify the situation. That wasn't enough and it wasn't long before our pal Jeff embarked upon an anti-Alspaugh jihad. For years, he has continued to besmirch both Mr. Alspaugh's product and he personally all over the Internet with statements like "I got ripped-off", "the fit was poor" or "Buy Jeals, they fit perfectly, worth the extra (at the time) 700 bucks" to anyone who will listen.

In reality, what Jeffvette needs, ain't a set of headers. He needs to get a freakin' life.

Hib this is where you are smoking the crack pipe. Yes I did have some issues with a set of headers whom I bought through Steve Tarquine who was helping Brian sell them. I had issues with the passenger side pipe not being the correct bend, or length.

I have mentioned to others that it will not be a perfect fit and have recomended others buy a set of SW headers over a used Watsons. I hold no ill will against Brian. I have never said he ripped me off. And excuse me for offering my opinion on the Jeals when they were still available.

Now...my past statements about Brian Alspaugh's headers. I don't think I was implying that Brian, slaving over an arc welder, at night after working all day at his regular job, made each and every header himself. What I meant was that Mr. Alspaugh saw a need for a set of LT5 headers priced more reasonably than what was out there when he started his header business several years ago. He was personally involved in the prototype process. He then, subcontracted the production, ran the company, oversaw quality control (solving those early QC glitches in the process), made the sales, shipped the parts and handled customer service. Basically, Brian Alspaugh was a hands-on business owner putting a lot of care into his product. At this point in time, Brian Alspaugh's header business, while still existing, is lying low mainly because he wasn't protective enough of his design in the early years and, because of that shortsightedness, others were able to copy the design and undercut him in price. He still sells the LT5 headers--and, if I ever decide to add headers to my ZR-1, Alspaughs are the ones I'll install--but does no advertising and is no longer aggressively pursuing the business.

Maybe you should have interviewed Al Noe who runs Stainless works.

"To set the record straight, we did work with Bill Kirchhoffer originally with respect to our ZR1 headers. Bill and Stainless Works came to an impass on several issues-price and fit were the two biggest. We needed to have a car to fit them on and were never able to come to terms with getting one-Bill also did not like the adapters we wanted to supply. I contacted Bill several times and were not able to have the project move ahead. Bill has always been a gentleman when I have seen him out and as far as I know there are no hard feelings.

About a year later, Brian Allspaugh contacted us about doing ZR1 headers. Our original intention was to take the header tubes/fixture/design we had and use them, making the necessary adapters-why would anyone start over when you think you are most of the way there? We located a local ZR1 from an acquaintance of ours, and tried to install the headers. They did not fit well, by our own standards, and we ended up redoing at least 6 of the 8 tubes (we may have refitted all of them-this is all by memory from several years ago). We also had to build a new jig, and fab the adapters. It seemed that duplicating a header we were sent did not work well due to the pattern headers not fitting well-having a car made all the difference and let us see what tubes were close to what, etc.

Next, Aaron Scott from South Georgia Corvette became involved with helping us tighten up the jig and further develop the adapters to make the installation easier. Aaron and Brian were both a big help in getting the product to market.

So, here we are today. We did not "steal" anyones design, nor did we do anything underhanded, etc. We are a pretty straightforward company to deal with and will help the community in any way that we can. If anyone has any questions about our products, you can call us at 800-878-3635. If you want to buy the products, anyone of the distributors listed in this thread will be able to help you, and I can personally say that Brian and Aaron are very good people to deal with.

Thanks
Al Noe
Stainless Works
"Manufacturers of the finest Corvette headers, including headers for C3, L98, ZR1, Lt1/Lt4, C5, C6. The only Corvette headers to have been used by the One Lap Winning MTI Built Z07.""

 

[threecars]

cam covers oil vent

This thread started out as a request for information and a difference of opinion as to whether the cam cover foam oil/air separator is required to insure proper operation of the LT5. How did it get to this point? Hib, I haven't had any dealings with you but I have with Jeffvette and can attest to his credability, experience and support of LT5/ZR1 owners needs for assistance. Cruising the various corvette forums I have noticed that Jeffvette provides technical asistance and support to many others and backs up his advice and opinions with personal experience. I can understand differences of opinion based on perspectives and experience but I cannot understand nor support attacks on others with whom we might disagree. I'm disappointed that a self described journalist refers to an adversary as an, " angry juvenile", who, "should spread his BS elsewhere". You might think about following your own advise.