Dealer dropped my C5 off lift -- need advice

[TheBlueVette]

Adding Insult on Top of Injury

I received a letter from Stewart's today:

"We've noticed that the last maintenance performed on your 1997 Corvette was on December 31, 2003 and it may be overdue for its 40,000 mile service. As you know the proper maintenance of your vehicle will keep it running efficiently and safely for years to come.

You can schedule this service .... [etc.]

At Stewart Chevrolet Caddilac we are committed to keeping you a satisfied customer, and hope to see you again soon.
Sincerely,

Roger Engle
Service Advisor"

 

[KANE]

Is this the longest thread ever or what?

Wow- the response is just overwhelming, barnetdh. I really wish our locker room law antics could do more for you. Hopefully, as your troubles move forward that they move in the right direction.

I remember years ago that an insurance company drug their feet with a claim. Then my mom played a tape for an executive where the adjuster told mymother that "If we had wanted a new vehicle, then we should have rolled it in the accident." That was enough for them. They settled no comments, no problems. The bad news was that we had to auction the vehicle off (it was half finished- but the insurance company was done with it- money wise!) and it was nearly two and a half years before they gave us the difference.

Nasty. I despise shady insurance adjustors and poor customer service.

 

[TheBlueVette]

letter to OSHA

Somebody sent me a copy of a response from Stewart's to an OSHA complaint. Here's an accurate transcription::


"In response to your letter you sent regarding the lifts in our shop There was one lift that showed signs of wear and was detected on May 28, 2004. When the one lift was detected we immediately called K&L Automotive to let them know about the situation and to have them come out and inspect all of the lifts in our shop, as the safety of our employees is our number one concern. K&L is an equipment seller and Repair Company of equipment that services most Dealerships and garages in the bay area. After there inspection there where a few lifts That showed signs of wear and we have contacted with them to come And replace any part they felt needed to be replaced. Please find enclosed a copy of there paper work showing the repairs that they are
performing to the lifts. Should you have any questions please do not Hesitate to contact me regarding this issue.


Sincerely

Frank Fragomerni
General Manager.


Hmmm. Nothing like well maintained equipment.

 

[TheBlueVette]

Wow- the response is just overwhelming, barnetdh. I really wish our locker room law antics could do more for you. Hopefully, as your troubles move forward that they move in the right direction.

I remember years ago that an insurance company drug their feet with a claim. Then my mom played a tape for an executive where the adjuster told mymother that "If we had wanted a new vehicle, then we should have rolled it in the accident." That was enough for them. They settled no comments, no problems. The bad news was that we had to auction the vehicle off (it was half finished- but the insurance company was done with it- money wise!) and it was nearly two and a half years before they gave us the difference.

Nasty. I despise shady insurance adjustors and poor customer service.

Hey DarkShark78 - I hope I can settle this faster than that!

- Dave

 

[KOPBET]

"In response to your letter you sent regarding the lifts in our shop
There was one lift that showed signs of wear and was detected on
May 28, 2004. When the one lift was detected we immediately called
K&L Automotive to let them know about the situation and to have them
come out and inspect all of the lifts in our shop, as the safety of our
employees is our number one concern. K&L is an equipment seller and
Repair Company of equipment that services most Dealerships and
garages in the bay area. After there inspection there where a few lifts
That showed signs of wear and we have contacted with them to come
And replace any part they felt needed to be replaced. Please find
enclosed a copy of there paper work showing the repairs that they are
performing to the lifts. Should you have any questions please do not
Hesitate to contact me regarding this issue.


Sincerely

Frank Fragomerni
General Manager.


Hmmm. Nothing like well maintained equipment.

Dear Mr. Fragomerni,

In regards to your letter to the Division of Occupational Safety and Health dated June 15, 2004 I must say that for a man in your position you certainly have horrible writing, grammar and spelling skills.

If I were you I would be embarrassed to send a letter like this to a third grade english student much less send it to a professional organization. I bet they had a good laugh with it. I know I did.

Regards,
KOPBET

 

[RCG]

Kopbet;

Amen!

Cheers!

 

[Tom Bryant]

I received a letter from Stewart's today:

"We've noticed that the last maintenance performed on your 1997 Corvette was on December 31, 2003 and it may be overdue for its 40,000 mile service. As you know the proper maintenance of your vehicle will keep it running efficiently and safely for years to come.

You can schedule this service .... [etc.]

At Stewart Chevrolet Caddilac we are committed to keeping you a satisfied customer, and hope to see you again soon.
Sincerely,

Roger Engle
Service Advisor"

 

[Vettefan87]

Wow- the response is just overwhelming, barnetdh.....

I was following this thread and when I left for vacation I forgot to check up on it, but wow this is another example of how great this site is. Im feeling your pain, but hopefully you'll be back in the saddle in no time.

 

[ToddnMiss]

Ouch - what a sad story

First off let me say I'm sorry for the trouble you're having to go through.

I'm new here, read about this thread in a different forum (news travels quickly) and felt I would chime in too.

My brother is an adjuster with your insurance company (CSAA - Triple A), formerly based out of the Bay Area (they're now locating all their claims adjusters in CO, NV & UT). I spoke with him at length just now regarding this situation and he let me gave me the following information;

* Based on information provided a claim has been added to your insurance - you will note that your policy number has a two digit number following a dash (e.g. E30481-01) . . . the "01" in the example is how many claims you've had on that policy. You'll note former bills/information have one number lower than they do now (e.g. went from -01 to -02).

* The claim/deductible is appropriate though this is not a collision accident or no fault of your own. Basically, no different then if you were to have someone "key" your car in a parking lot. They are waiving the deductible because they can seek the damage/loss from the dealership's insurance (insurance companies negotiate fault in percentage . . . in this case CSAA will be reimbursed 100% from the dealerships insurance company anyhow so there's no need for a reimbursement . . . of note, if you're ever in an accident with another CSAA member they also waive the deductible).

* For the above reason, it is most beneficial to you to take the dealership's insurance companies settlement if the vehicle is considered "a total loss." Reason for this is to help keep your insurance rates lower (as the dealer suggested). While my brother couldn't answer the question of whether a comprehensive claim would increase your rates he said that it most likely would (he doesn't deal with sales, just claims and he specializes in Bodily Injury & Fraud Claims). He also noted that other insurance companies would see the settlement amount if CSAA paid the claim for up to 5 years (he thinks it may be just 3 but wasn't sure). This could increase your rates if you were to switch as they wouldn't know the details and would require a "no-fault" letter from CSAA (which would be relatively easy to get considering the details).

* Unfortunately, even though you had a special bond with this inanimate object, the car is "worth what its worth to the public." Sentimental value would have to be approached at a civil level, insurance companies do not deal with these intrinsically (sp) values when it comes to vehicles. CSAA uses a 3rd party called "CCC" to give them the actual value of the vehicle (they don't use NADA, KBB or Edmunds). He's told that CCC uses a combination of "book value" and "actual sells in the area for 'similar' vehicles." He's worked in litigation where people have taken CSAA's offers to court. . . in nearly all cases the judge awards less then CSAA's "Final Offer."

* There was a comment about "Trade-in" and Tax. Settlements through CSAA include both Tax and unused License amount. They also take into account modifications if you have the receipts. So, the $17,300 would be increased by your 7.75% (or so) tax and license amount (pro-rated) . . . unless this was already in their offer. As for modifications, they are not dollar for dollar reimbursement. Say you had $8,000 in modifications . . . realistically they don't make your car worth $8,000 more when you go to sell the vehicle. Unfortunately, as noted in the bullet point above, your car is worth what its worth in a fair market.

* Whatever insurance company is making the decision (total loss vs. repairable) usually uses the same rule of thumb. 80% of estimated value in repairs is an automatic salvage (they'll usually try at 70%). In your example of a $17,300 value this would mean repairs have to be under $14,000 (again, assuming the $17,300 does not include tax or license). The reason for this is two fold; They can retrieve more than the remaining 20% in "Salvage Cost" by selling off the vehicle. And, it avoids "future problems" that often come up after repair that can drive the vehicle over the actual value. The other unadvertised reasons are its usually more profitable for the insurance company and alleviates headaches from future call-backs. Most adjusters would just prefer to write a check and close the file.

* And, on that last note, to close a file the insurance company will usually adjust their offer by 5% or so. In other words, if you were to say, make it $18,000 and I'll take it - you'll probably get the $18,000 (again, ensure the $17,300 included tax/license already, if not adjust accordingly). Another point you may want to make is to offer to buy the salvaged vehicle back for its "sentimental attachment" you had to it (yah, they'll know you just want to part it out for more money). Some insurance companies will let you do this. My guess is the dealership will want to do this from their company if you don't (they'll make money off that engine/tranny . . . the engine probably wasn't running at the time and I know I'd love to have it!). You should note that insurance companies do not HAVE to do this, but some will (I forgot to ask if CSAA allows this and my brother didn't answer his phone when I just now called).


Best of luck, keep us posted, I'm curious of what the final result will be. I'm sure Stewart Auto will come out better financially in the short term than you will on this . . . you'll be the one that will have a difficult time finding "an identical vehicle for the same price." Stewarts loss is in increased WC insurance (if there were an injury), increased insurance (for the company who pays you) and potential loss of business. The biggest loser is the insurance company on this . . . I know the argument "that's what they get paid for" and "they make a big profit" . . . but, their profit would have been $17,300 less Salvage higher had this not happened. The insurance company is making the offer, not the dealership. Of note, you can ask the dealership (as many have suggested) to share the pain with you (besides just the cost of the loaner they're giving you and the man-hours spent on this). Maybe, just maybe, they'll give you the opportunity to purchase a vehicle (hopefully a new Vette - but of your choice) at their employee cost (Ford would call that an A plan price) or at least at a "partnership price" (Ford would call that an X Plan price). Both are less than "Invoice" per Edmunds. That would help a lot with your "perceived loss" of $10,000 (note that he didn't have an offer to purchase for more than $17,300).

Hope at least a piece of this was helpful,
Todd
Northern California Car Enthusiast

Edited to fix spelling errors

 

[TheBlueVette]

First off let me say I'm sorry for the trouble you're having to go through.

I'm new here, read about this thread in a different forum (news travels quickly) and felt I would chime in too.

...
Hope at least a piece of this was helpful,
Todd
Northern California Car Enthusiast

Todd - Yes, that was extremely helpful, and I am very impressed with the effort you put into this. That was very generous and thoughtful of you to do this for me, not to mention well-written. Getting the real scoop from an insider is incredibly valuable in trying to work an issue like this. I greatly appreciate your efforts on my behalf. Thanks for joining in, and joining this forum. The folks here are very close, and you'll find them amazingly helpful. I've picked up so many new friends here, I can't believe it. You'll be right at home.

Regards,
Dave

 

[wishIhadavette]

just so I don't have to sift through the last half dozen pages or so, what is going on with your situation? :confused

 

[Jesda]

I posted this on the Nissan-Infiniti Car Owners forum at www.nicoclub.com.

So sad, so aggrivating. Good luck!

-Jesda

 

[TheBlueVette]

just so I don't have to sift through the last half dozen pages or so, what is going on with your situation? :confused

Sure, wishIhadavette.

The main item is that I'm waiting for an independent analysis of the frame alignment results. If the frame is off spec, this could easily turn into the car being totaled.

An OSHA response from Stewart's indicates that the cause of the lift failure was wear on the gears. Several other lifts were found to exhibit wear as well. I will have to check with an attorney to see if this constitutes an admission of negligence.

Stewart's sent me a reminder to come in for 40,000 mile service. "As you know the proper maintenance of your vehicle will keep it running efficiently and safely for years to come....At Stewart Chevrolet Cadillac we are committed to keeping you a satisfied customer, and hope to see you again soon."

Thank-you Stewart's --that's good to know!

 

[TheBlueVette]

I posted this on the Nissan-Infiniti Car Owners forum at www.nicoclub.com.

So sad, so aggrivating. Good luck!

-Jesda

Thanks, Jesda! Kopbet's promotional ad says it all, doesn't it?

- Dave

 

[pterribilis]

Hi people. I know, I know..I don't own a Vette, but I love them equally as much as many other cars. But I was linked to this page via OrlandoForums and I know a few people that own vettes. Someone posted "how do we find out who owns it?" Well, I think some of this info might help bring something up....

Firstly..it looks like these guys have been in trouble with the law before. Maybe one or some of you can dig through some stuff to find this particular case:

November 13, 2000
Montalbano, Inc. v. General Motors Corp
PR-1727-00
Hearing on Merits
from http://www.nmvb.ca.gov/newsletter/sept00.pdf
​

I did a simple whois on StewartCars.com to find out who owns the domain and it is totally linked to Montalbano Inc. Which is in the above Hearing. It also is linked to the same county,etc of the company in question.

I would dare say that the owners last name would be Montalbano...
Registrant:
MONTALBANO INC. (STEWARTCARS-DOM)
780 Serramonte Blvd
COLMA, CA 94014
US
Domain Name: STEWARTCARS.COM
Administrative Contact, Technical Contact:
Malone, Mark (MM22666) office@PERFORM.NET
Performance Media
8635 W SAHARA AVE
LAS VEGAS, NV 89117-5859
US

There has got to be other ways to find out even more information.

Alan
2003 Acura RSX Type S

 

[TheBlueVette]

Hi people. I know, I know..I don't own a Vette, but I love them equally as much as many other cars. But I was linked to this page via OrlandoForums and I know a few people that own vettes. Someone posted "how do we find out who owns it?" Well, I think some of this info might help bring something up....

Alan
2003 Acura RSX Type S

Thanks, Alan! BTW, you don't have to own a vette to love 'em, or to join the forum.

We discovered that the owner is Paul Montalbano, and he can be reached at Stewart Automotive. Thanks for looking that up, though! That was a clever google, and I could have used the information much earlier. Thanks, again, and welcome!

- Dave

 

[pterribilis]

I guess that is what I get for not reading ALL 48 pages. Sorry, wish I would have seen this before. I sure hope you get a convertible or C6 or SOMETHING better.

I have had some pretty bad repair work/customer service happen to me in the past. I used to drive a 94 Accord which was my only transportation at the time... Long story short...one day after a routine maintenance...my harmonic balancer came loose, lost power steering, etc. All the oil came out of my car and almost hosed it for sure. Brought it in, they somehow did some patchwork and on the way home (after hours) my wheels started coming loose because the lugnuts weren't screwed on all the way and they had not told me that they had broken off a few of the studs on my front wheels. Not good...oh well I brought them to small claims court and we settle out at like 1k or so.

So nowadays, I do everything myself even if I don't know how. I read and read and have a friend come over and make sure I'm doing it right. I'm sure with a forum like this as ClubRSX (the forum I go to currently) there are many members around your area that would come down and help you do the work yourself if you need.

The only downside of that of course is record keeping for trade-in/sale value...but hehe......If I had a freggin C5, Z06, etc....I don't know if I would ever sell. You guys have a powerplant and body that you just can't hate, can't say "it isn't fast enough", etc. I would keep it forever....and ever...and ever. I wish you the best...

 

[TheBlueVette]

I guess that is what I get for not reading ALL 48 pages. Sorry, wish I would have seen this before. I sure hope you get a convertible or C6 or SOMETHING better.

...
The only downside of that of course is record keeping for trade-in/sale value...but hehe......If I had a freggin C5, Z06, etc....I don't know if I would ever sell. You guys have a powerplant and body that you just can't hate, can't say "it isn't fast enough", etc. I would keep it forever....and ever...and ever. I wish you the best...

Not to worry -- keeping up with this thread is a full time job. :L

I had intended to keep my C5 forever, but sometimes stuff happens...

- Dave

 

[Edmond]

This definitely has to be the longest running thread on the history of the internet itself!:L

 

[AZMike]

This definitely has to be the longest running thread on the history of the internet itself!:L

Yes - much longer than this thread:

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=18595&pagenumbe

But it's a 'hoot' to read!


Thought everyone could use a laugh today!