Dealer dropped my C5 off lift -- need advice

[Daytona Yellow 69 Z/28]

barnetdh,

I am Very Sorry to hear about your missfortune. I was linked to this thread from Camaros.net and just want to let you know we are all pulling for you, and hope this gets resolved in a fair and satisfactory manor. I know anyone who has a love for their car can feel your pain. It is a real shame that the dealer wont just step up to the plate and really make it right, by replacing the car.

On a side note, I have read through all 55 pages of this thread and i must say the suport you have received from this group is overwellming(sp). The members on this board really seem to be a Top Notch Group. Even though I havnt owned a Vette since 1988 I am really glad I have found this board.

I really hope things work out for you and you can put this behind you ASAP.
Nick...(Daytona Yellow 69 Z/28)

 

[Bob Chadwick]

Although,I know it is no responsibilty of GM's to be concerned with dealer conduct,I do believe that when there is a problem such as this one,it is the responsibilitie of GM,to make sure the dealer is properly handling and distributing their product.

GM probably feels that this is being handled properly. The dealer had an accident, turned it over to their insurance company and repairs are being made. I know there is a lot of emotion here, and I feel for Dave, but generally the dealer owes the lessor of replacement cost or repairs plus incidentals like decrease in value, rental, etc.

Stewart could have gone above and beyond here but they didn't. That was a business decision they made. Hopefully it will come back to haunt them in the future in the form of lost business and an impact on their reputation in the business community but I don't see how GM could have forced them to go beyond their obligations.

 

[BeaterShark]

As far as making it right, would you buy this car for full retail, knowing it had $11,000 worth of repairs? If you believe it's as good as new, I'd be glad to sell it to you at a substantial discount. How about $26,000? That's a great price for a 1997 coupe with only 40,000 miles. Want it? I'm serious.

No, but I wouldn't buy ANY car for full retail. I wouldn't hesitate to buy a previously damaged vehicle, as long as it was repaired properly and had a never-damaged frame. I'd have the car inspected if I was really interested in it to be sure it was structurally sound.

One part that is not being made right (and we're ignoring any emotional value for now) is the loss of retail value. Most people won't buy a car that's been in a major wreck, and by law anything over $500 has to be disclosed to the buyer. I have one professional opinion that I have lost $13,000 of resale value because of the dealer's actions. So, even if absolutely everything is repaired perfectly, there is no frame damage, and there's never a problem, I've lost value. If you disagree, I would be delighted to sell it to you.

You lost the retail value of your car the day you drove it off the lot. You then are dealing with "trade in" and "private party" values.Yes, the value is less now due to the repaired damage. But, again, it would be if your car was hit by a drunk driver. To get this fixed, you will need to go against the insurance companies to have this "settled" for auto accidents in general.

You mentioned "accident" several times. Remember, that I didn't have this "accident" - if I had wrecked my own car, it would be a different story. If you read the letter to OSHA, you'll note that the cause of the car falling off the lift was worn down locking gears -- which were present not only on the lift my car was on, but also on several other lifts. That does not sound like "accident."

Let's look to Webster to see what an "accident" is:
"Literally, a befalling; an event that takes place without one's foresight orexpectation; an undesigned, sudden, and unexpected event; chance; contingency; often, an undesigned and unforeseen occurrence of anafflictive or unfortunate character; a casualty; a mishap; as, to die by an
accident ."

Yes, you did have an accident. Again, your car could have just as easily been hit by a drunk driver while parked at your favorite resturant parking lot and had $10k+ of damages. The insurance's stand and $$ would be similar.

I didn't ask for a new car. I asked for a replacement. I just want what I walked in with.

You did ask for a convertable.

Again, I agree this sucks. But, it is part of owning and driving a vehicle. You are [size=-1]suseptical [/size]to accidents. The insurance companies are handling it as it does for other accidents that occur to vehicles.

I agree that Stewart's *could* have made this easier on you, but I'd bet that 99% of all dealerships out there would be doing the same thing under the same circumstances; turning it over to the insurance. After all, this is why they have insurance.

I still have not heard the results from the frame analysis. I still find it amazing that so many people can say it's damaged 2000 miles away by looking at pictures on their computer monitors.

 

[bossvette]

FYI GM is in its two week "shutdown". With only minumal people working I doubt you will here anything till after the 19th

 

[TheBlueVette]

Dave, I just got back from vacation and had hoped there was some positive progress by now. I'm really disapointed with the GM response, it's a shame they don't know that "Customer Loyalty" really means more than just a rebate. But just to show you how much attention your plight is getting, I was at my local tire shop on Saturday to have a slow leak in one of my tires checked and naturally I was a little apprehensive about my baby going up in the air. To my surprise, they waited until the ramp lift was free and about 3 guys guided it on, with the manager watching. I mentioned that I appreciated all the attention for a slow leak and the manager said they didn't need to drop a Vette like the one in CA. I was shocked. So it appears that you've done a public service for the rest of us by going public in at least making some repair centers give our prized posessions a second thought when working on them. Keep the faith.
Ed

Ed - that is really great news. A work of art requires TLC at all times. But the thanks really goes to CAC.

- Dave

 

[Alex D]

I absolutely agree!! First, I would IMMEDIATELY tell the dealer the car is hands-off for them until you can get an independent appraiser in there to evaluate the damage and also immediately retain an attorney. maybe even have the attorney instruct the dealer to have hands off the car .


You can bet they will screw you if you let them fix it. I absolutely DO NOT TRUST any dealer anymore!! Besides, even if everything works out that they can fix the car , I would request a Corvette as a free loaner for the three weeks tey plan to keep yours for repair.

You need to get the car checked and retain an attorney. I probably would not move it from their premesis. That might indicate some "de-facto" acceptance. In spite of what they show on TV, cars are not made to drop 6 feet. I heard abaout a similar story happening here in the Valley and the dealer just replaced the car. You might check the "other Forum" archive for this toipic. Good luck. Sheesh, I can't believe GM still has some dealers that are that bad...

Bruce

 

[TheBlueVette]

I really don't understand what you guys expect GM to do here.
Give GM a break. They have no authority in this. By calling Stewarts and voicing their concern they have done all they can without overstepping their bounds. Dave's beef is with the dealer and that's where this has to be resolved. Period.

Tom -

I know that GM has no legal or ethical obligation here. However, I think they've missed an opportunity to make a strong statement about loyalty and customer service, going beyond the minimum of what is required. I understand that it's not their job, but wouldn't it have been nice?

..Personally I think Dave will make out better if he takes the car back and goes elsewhere and makes his own trade-in deal. As long as there is no Car Fax report made by Stewarts he should have no problem getting a better $$ amount on the trade than the $17,500. I would get back with Stewarts and make sure they are not going to file a Car Fax on the damage.

I wouldn't sell the car without disclosing the accident, even if it costs me $$$.

- Dave

 

[TheBlueVette]

Although,I know it is no responsibilty of GM's to be concerned with dealer conduct,I do believe that when there is a problem such as this one,it is the responsibilitie of GM,to make sure the dealer is properly handling and distributing their product.

Hi ibanezplayer! Thanks for joining in!

I also would think that GM would want to step in, even though -- as Tom points out -- they are not obligated to do so. I think this situation reflects poorly on GM, some of which is deserved, and some of which is not (e.g., everyone is hearing about the GM dealership that dropped the Corvette) Even though they have no control over Stewarts, there are things they could have done on their own that would have gone a long way towards earning Customer Loyalty. GM had an opportunity to stand up. They remained seated.

-Dave

 

[savette68/63]

Good On Ya Dave,

We are still reading with interest DownUnder and Hope it turns out great for our Mate.

Keep the faith and all you CAC'ers lets keep the support rolling in for Dave and his family.


G'Day From Downunder

Savette

 

[TheBlueVette]

barnetdh,

I am Very Sorry to hear about your missfortune. I was linked to this thread from Camaros.net and just want to let you know we are all pulling for you, and hope this gets resolved in a fair and satisfactory manor. I know anyone who has a love for their car can feel your pain. It is a real shame that the dealer wont just step up to the plate and really make it right, by replacing the car.

On a side note, I have read through all 55 pages of this thread and i must say the suport you have received from this group is overwellming(sp). The members on this board really seem to be a Top Notch Group. Even though I havnt owned a Vette since 1988 I am really glad I have found this board.

I really hope things work out for you and you can put this behind you ASAP.
Nick...(Daytona Yellow 69 Z/28)

Thanks, Nick! This forum is really amazing isn't it?

Some people get it, and some don't. My ex-wife had her Toyota totaled about 8 years ago. She opted to get it repaired, and is still driving it. She doesn't see what the big deal is.

My current wife, on the other hand, nearly beat me to the dealership when she heard they dropped the C5, and started screaming at them before she even got out of her car.

Some people get it, and some don't.

- Dave

 

[TheBlueVette]

Good On Ya Dave,

We are still reading with interest DownUnder and Hope it turns out great for our Mate.

Keep the faith and all you CAC'ers lets keep the support rolling in for Dave and his family.


G'Day From Downunder

Savette

G'Day Savette! Always good to hear from my friends Down Under!

Thanks for the good wishes!

- Dave

 

[TheBlueVette]

I absolutely agree!! First, I would IMMEDIATELY tell the dealer the car is hands-off for them until you can get an independent appraiser in there to evaluate the damage and also immediately retain an attorney. maybe even have the attorney instruct the dealer to have hands off the car .


You can bet they will screw you if you let them fix it. I absolutely DO NOT TRUST any dealer anymore!! Besides, even if everything works out that they can fix the car , I would request a Corvette as a free loaner for the three weeks tey plan to keep yours for repair.

Alex -

I'm working with an independent appraiser now. I asked Stewarts to lend me one of their C5's while mine was in the shop, but they refused. However, the appriaser said that I can rightfully claim the difference in rental costs between the loaner they gave me and a 'vette.

I'm still looking for the right attorney. Some don't want to be bothered with a case this small. Some don't know much about the subject, but are glad to take the case. I have a friend who is an attorney (she doesn't do this type of law), and she is looking for someone both willing and competent.
-Dave

 

[MM-C5]

...right attorney.... willing and competent.

Now there is an oxymoron!

 

[TheBlueVette]

Now there is an oxymoron!

LOL

...but not willing to do it for free

 

[Alex D]

barneth .. was worries me about your case is the fact that there is nothing right now that would incentivise the dealer or pressure the dealer off their position. You are at a stalemate with them and GM and nothing but your weakening position is gonna change things until you gradually or all together cave in and accept their offer to pay for repair and nothing more. I sympathise with you, but time is on the dealer's side, heck they didn't even give you a comparable loaner. They will continue to defend their position and give you lip service, as will GM do. They already had their attorney walk them through this in the week after the accident and let him outline their exposure. they know now that you have no means of enforcing your position so they will let it ride until you cave in or sue. Hind side is 20/20 but in these types of liability cases you need to start as strong as possible with force and a good lawyer if the dealer does not want to make it right. As well as all the actions of the forum members are intended, they do not make a difference and will not get you your desired results. My philosophy on these cases is the follwing: if I am out of the money anyway, I at least enforce my rights. I would rather spend the money on a lawyer than let the dealer get away with this. I amvery curious to see how you come out on this and wish you the very best!!

Alex -

I'm working with an independent appraiser now. I asked Stewarts to lend me one of their C5's while mine was in the shop, but they refused. However, the appriaser said that I can rightfully claim the difference in rental costs between the loaner they gave me and a 'vette.

I'm still looking for the right attorney. Some don't want to be bothered with a case this small. Some don't know much about the subject, but are glad to take the case. I have a friend who is an attorney (she doesn't do this type of law), and she is looking for someone both willing and competent.
-Dave

 

[MM-C5]

Tom -

I have more years in Franchising and Dealer realtionships than I want to either recall or admit to. Yoru logic is correct but some of your assumptions are a little off base. If I may:

There are certain things outlined in the dealer franchise agreement that GM is obligated to do and that the dealer is obligated to do. GM being involved in the daily operations of any dealer is not one of them.

100% correct.

they have no authority to force the dealer into making any kind of deal with a customer.

Not quite true. All Franchise or Dealer relationships have a degree of Operational Approval; meaning that the "Z" or Dealer is providing optimum service / satisfaction to its clientel. That also pre-empts approval for expansion, whether that be new locations, products, services etc.

GM would not hold back new products but could do some arm twisting in this area of Satisfaction.

They are not going to do this over one incident. I'm sure there have been other complaints from other customers about Stewarts over time

Actually, a quick search shows that there have been, but doesn't reveal the severity.

Give GM a break. They have no authority in this. ...Dave's beef is with the dealer and that's where this has to be resolved. Period.

This is the irony that most franchisors do not realize. This story will be told over and over again, by word of mouth and as it has been - by Internet. 3, 6, or 12 months from now, 99.9% of the people who learn of this event won't remember STEWART CHEVROLET & CADILLAC, but they will rember GM I agree, Dave's beef is with Stewart, but the organization suffering the greatest loss of good will is GM.

By calling Stewarts and voicing their concern they have done all they can without overstepping their bounds.

Given the above and the deeper pockets, there is nothing to prevent GM from stepping in and doing the right thing. At this point, it could even be a marketing coup

As for never buying another GM car again that's like saying " The movers dropped my RCA TV out of the moving van and distroyed it and RCA wouldn't replace it. I'll never buy a RCA product again"

Not really a good analogy. The reality is that you'd probably buy another RCA, but you'd never use that mover again. In context...I'd buy another GM, but it would be a cold day in Siberia before I baught it from Stewart.

PEACE brother.

 

[Vette-Pilot]

Hey Barnetdh,

I have been following the progression of the posts since I last replied and from the looks of it I do not believe that Stewart's is going to have an epiphany any time soon.

Unfortunately it seems as if you are going to be stuck with either selling the car, trading it in for as much as possible or just keeping it and hope that there are not any problems down the road from the result of these repairs being performed.

Like I posted previously, I do not believe that any dealer (regardless if it was in an accident or not) would give you much more for trade in value than Stewart's is offering for your car. Dealers use the "Black Book Value" to determine the value of a trade in.

If you can afford it, now is the time to start looking at the 2004 Corvettes that the dealers have left on their showroom floors. After the release of the 2005 C6 the prices for the 2004 models will drop even further but unfortunately your trade in value may drop as well. You could also look into purchasing a low mile used Corvette but with the prices of the 2004's being so low it is a better deal to purchase a new one if you can.

I see that you are looking into getting a lawyer. While it is a good idea to consult with a lawyer to weigh your options. I believe that unless there was some gross misconduct by Stewart's (which I see no evidence of, but then again I'm not a lawyer ) that you are better off saving the money it would cost you to hire a lawyer and put it towards a new car.

I hope things work out for you in the end but I do not see Stewart's changing their position on this matter so unfortunately you will have to play the cards you are dealt.

Good luck and I will continue to monitor the progress. Keep us posted on the updates Take care.

 

[Rain]

For some reason I recall July 12th as being the cut off date for "deals" on 2004 models.
After that, the dealerships just have to ride it out and hope for the best..
Am certain someone else here knows the particulars of this model year/pricing situation.

Keep it up Dave
Rain

 

[Vette-Pilot]

Hey Rain,


I am not sure about the cut off date for the incentives but I guess Dave (Barnetdh) should get on the phone and find out real quick if he is interested

I just saw a post on another forum and the Dealer is offering $11k below MSRP after GM Owner loyalty. He has 8 C5's left as of the 5th. There are other Dealers on the same forum that will match any deal mentioned on that forum.

I almost purchased a 2004 CE Z06 (Z16) from one of those dealers and it would have cost me about $600 to ship it to my door in an enclosed trailer but I finally found a local dealer that was willing to match the same offer. (We never did get the Z16 because we decided to wait on the C6 Z06.)

Dave (Barnetdh), if you need any more information about the dealers I mentioned just send me a private message

 

[wishIhadavette]

beatershark: so since it was an "accident" as defined by the dictionary; why should dave be taking a loss? personally I don't think its unreasonable at all to ask for a replacement. would I buy a car with $11k worth of damage? of course not, the dealer offered to buy it back but they definately lowballed him. I would bet that if stewerts offerd dave what the car was worth pre-accident (again I use the word accident because yes it was but not the way you mean as in traffic accident) on a trade in or gave him a comperable car this whole situation would go away. and I really is too bad that GM is washing thier hands of this because they could get alot of good PR from this (mainly to everyone thats looked at this thread).
Dave/brandth: I still am hoping this all works out for you.