Favorite Spark plugs...

[windrider50]

Anyone know the meaning of the term Luddite?

Isn't that a religious group?? Do they make spark plugs too??

 

[65-StingRay]

I own a 65 vette with a big block (23years now). I have tried a number of different brand name spark plugs thru out the years. From autolite,champion,split fire,ngk,ac delco and some brands I can't even remember. Tried different heat ranges of the same brand. For the last 3 years it's been the AC Delco Rapid Fire # 10 with a gap of .0035 (comes stock this way). I've also tried the Rapid Fire # 1 (gap .0045 I believe). All I can say about this issue is - everytime I change my plugs I always think my car starts and runs better - anecdotal evidence. I guess my point is, no matter what plug I used it worked fine until I bought into the hype of the next plug to come along. Now that I'm older and maybe a little wiser I find I don't buy into the hype as much. In the end I switched to th AC's because I want to use plugs that are best suited and as close to the stock one's as possible. By the way they are not the cheapest plugs out there. But compared to what I've spent on parts thru out the years a couple of extra dollars isn't going to break the bank. So the talk of expense is a moot point for me. I change my spark plugs every 2 years and I only drive my car in nice summer type weather.
By the way being Canuckian I laughed at the comment about- the sniper - alluding to the frozen pond game of Hockey.

Wayne- from the Great White North

 

[Chas]

Welcome aboard mate...

thanks for your input here...and im glad you got the sniper line....wasnt sure if anyone did...i hate to see flames and tryed to ease thigs abit.
dont forget to jump into the hockey playoffs thread in the off road lounge...we need more northern input...eh?
Chas

I own a 65 vette with a big block (23years now). I have tried a number of different brand name spark plugs thru out the years. From autolite,champion,split fire,ngk,ac delco and some brands I can't even remember. Tried different heat ranges of the same brand. For the last 3 years it's been the AC Delco Rapid Fire # 10 with a gap of .0035 (comes stock this way). I've also tried the Rapid Fire # 1 (gap .0045 I believe). All I can say about this issue is - everytime I change my plugs I always think my car starts and runs better - anecdotal evidence. I guess my point is, no matter what plug I used it worked fine until I bought into the hype of the next plug to come along. Now that I'm older and maybe a little wiser I find I don't buy into the hype as much. In the end I switched to th AC's because I want to use plugs that are best suited and as close to the stock one's as possible. By the way they are not the cheapest plugs out there. But compared to what I've spent on parts thru out the years a couple of extra dollars isn't going to break the bank. So the talk of expense is a moot point for me. I change my spark plugs every 2 years and I only drive my car in nice summer type weather.
By the way being Canuckian I laughed at the comment about- the sniper - alluding to the frozen pond game of Hockey.

Wayne- from the Great White North

 

[Larry82]

Isn't that a religious group?? Do they make spark plugs too??

From a website:

The Luddites were a group of English workers in the early 1800s who protested against the changes produced by the Industrial Revolution that they felt threatened their jobs, often by destroying machines.


The original Luddites claimed to be led by one Ned Ludd, also known as "King Ludd", who is believed to have destroyed two large stocking-frames that produced inexpensive stockings undercutting those produced by skilled knitters, and whose signature appears on a "workers manifesto" of the time. Whether or not Ludd actually existed is historically unclear.

The movement spread rapidly throughout England in 1811, with many wool and cotton mills being destroyed, until the British government harshly suppressed them. This included making "machine breaking" (industrial sabotage) a capital crime, and executing 17 men in 1813. At one time, there were more British troops fighting the Luddites than Napoleon Bonaparte. In recent years, the terms Luddism and Luddite or Neo-Luddism and Neo-Luddite have become synonymous with anyone who opposes the advance of industrial technology.

This was my way of responding to those that said iridiums were all hype and marketing. Sometimes I have too much knowledge pounding away inside my head.

 

[Vettehead Mikey]

Anyone know the meaning of the term Luddite?

I sure do! Does anybody know any famous quotes (erroneously) attributed to PT Barnum?

 

[BeaterShark]

For my vette, it takes 15 minutes to change the plugs. I use regular NGK plugs.
For my LS1 Firebird, it takes me 4 hours to change the plugs. I use a platinum or whatever-the-latest-greates plug is. It may be hype and I may be throwing away money, but I don't care as I only change them every 60k miles anyway. The peace of mind knowing they are advertised to last longer is enough for me.

I use NGK because they are the only ones that I have found a complete referense to their plugs. I certainly don't need a plug for a "1969 350 Corvette" and that is the only part# I could get from most of the others.

 

[Vettehead Mikey]

Maybe we need to forward this to the DNC as evidence how the EPA is wasting our money.

I think you meant 'DNRC'

http://www.unitedmedia.com/comics/dilbert/dnrc/

Better apply before it's too late. Hope you qualify.

 

[Vettehead Mikey]

Perhaps of interest to some-

Please have a look at the poll:

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zeropost?cmd=votenew&id=822622

Iswearitwasn'tmeyerhonour!

 

[Larry82]

I'll be darned. They have a poll on spark plugs. Oh Oh, look, someone said something about Luddites. Man, what a coincidence. Vettehead Michelle did you do that?

 

[Larry82]

I know, next you are going to tell me my $160 of spark plug wires are poop also. Magnecor, of course.

 

[curtis]

I think P T Barnum said something to the effect that " There's one born every minute" he was talking about suckers. What does that have to do with spark plugs? I use Bosch Plus-4. Very smooth idle and great throtle response. Lifetime warranty. To each his own.

 

[fastvikingonwheel]

Hi' Guys,
- sorry for bringing this old thread up again....

Ehh, can anybody give a type on theese damn plugs?
Needs new sparks for my brothers 73' Excalibur with
454 corvette spec. engine but can't find whitch type should be used (NGKxxxx etc.).

Thank
Jesper

 

[blackandred78]

I've spent over 15 years in professional motorsport and of he cars that actually still use spark plugs, the Bosch Platinums are still the choice - even if sponsored by someone else...

 

[KOPBET]

Tell you what, I won't call you 'Bubba' if you don't call me 'Troll' :L

I'm sorry, but I just had to laugh out loud on that one!!!

 

[Vettehead Mikey]

I'm sorry, but I just had to laugh out loud on that one!!!

Even though that thread is a few years old and some of the contributers have moved on, the basic message still holds true.

There's no evidence to support the beleif that iridium/platinum/unobtainium plugs work any better than the plain jane AC Delco or Champions.

The high cost plugs do last longer, but most of us will never own or use the car long enough to take advantage of that.

 

[KOPBET]

Even though that thread is a few years old and some of the contributers have moved on, the basic message still holds true.

There's no evidence to support the beleif that iridium/platinum/unobtainium plugs work any better than the plain jane AC Delco or Champions.

The high cost plugs do last longer, but most of us will never own or use the car long enough to take advantage of that.

blackandred78 sent this one to the top and I just happened to be perusing it when, I just had to laugh at your retort (I won't call you Bubba) ...good one!

 

[Evolution1980]

Holy Thread Resurrection, Batman!

Here's what I know about spark plugs (and it's about enough to barely fill a plug boot!)

The multiple-tip plugs were created basically for the sole purpose of helping weak ignition systems. If the energy being produced by the coil is strong enough, then a single terminal plug will work just fine and there's no need for multiple tips. That being said...

My digital ingition system ("Jacobs") actually recommends the Champion plugs. I tried other plugs (the expensive ones) and they didn't work nearly as well as the cheap Champions. This could be because the Jacobs actually uses the plugs as monitors and the more expensive plugs don't respond correctly. (That's an assumption on my part.)

So...if he running a stock ingition and it's a bit weak, he may be better with multiple tip plugs. Otherwise, if his ignition is good and strong, good ol' Champion plugs will work just fine!

Now, if you are looking for what model of Champion plug or what not, well, that I don't know. Any shop reference manual should be able to cross-reference to the correct plug needed

 

[pgtr]

I'm sorry, but I just had to laugh out loud on that one!!!

Now if he'd kept drivin' just a heartbeat further beyond Galveston then he'd be a changin his tune and hollerin for Bubba's tow service. Guess followin the caravan had it's benefit eh?

 

[Hib Halverson]

Why am i not surprised that this thread demonstrates some misunderstanding about spark plugs? It's clear that a few of the folks leading the discussion know enough to be dangerous. Sometimes those who speak the loudest, know the least but continue to speak loudly because....they have an audience.

Conversely, it's also clear that some contributors to this thread speak from knowledge and experience in a credible manner.

Early-on, it was implied by "Vettehead Mikey," that iridium-tipped spark plugs are hype.
Mikey, Mikey, you've been hit in the head one too many times by those hockey pucks.

There is ample scientific evidence that iridium-tipped spark plugs offer some useful performance and durability enhancements. One of the better objective documents establishing the credibility of iridium as a material for use in spark plugs is an SAE Technical Paper presented by some engineers from Denso back in 1999. I can't repost the paper here for obvious copyright reasons but I have a copy and the evidence is convincing. There a fair amount of chassis dyno data in various places on the Internet which seems to indicate in some cases performance increases are possible from iridium plugs.

There is empirical evidence that iridium plugs offer slightly increased performance and useful durability increases over plugs made with more common materials. The statement was made that "high-end cars" use iridium plugs. That is true, however, reality is that both low-end and high-end cars use them. Some of the least expensive and the most expensive products in General Motors lines use iridium-tipped plugs. Secondly, the switch by O.E.s to iridium is happening not just at GM. Many car companies use them. The less-informed might jump to the conclusion that wide-spread adoption of iridium-tipped plugs by O.Es is hype but, alas, that couldn't be farther from the truth. It is true that in the consumer/retail aftermarket there is a lot of hype about some types of spark plugs. With O.E.s, remember that one of their key goals is to control and/or reduce costs and because of that, the idea that car companies use iridium plugs as original equipment due to some marketing hype is ridiculous. Car companies want to offer good durability and adequate performance for the least possible cost. Iridium- and platinum-tipped plugs cost more than plugs made without those metals thus car companies would not be using them if they had no advantages over "standard" plugs. Believe me, O.E.s test this stuff until their blue-in-the-face. They wouldn't put iridium-tipped plugs in engines if there wasn't a practical advantage in using them.

An engine builder's comments implied that spark plugs are a commodity and spending more than a buck-fifty each is frivolous. Well...there is some truth there, but remember if you base your spark plug opinions solely on engines on dynos, you're actually not subjecting a plug to a very good test, especially if the engine is a streeter or a mild racing engine. Wide-open throttle at air-fuel ratios which provide the best power is actually pretty easy duty for a spark plug. The ignition demands are often low, there's no tip-in or other transitional throttle opening issues which spike ignition demand way up and no durability to speak of is required. In operating conditions such as that, a three buck plug of the correct head range and gap probably works very well and a whiz-bang iridium-tipped unit may offer little practical improvement.

But...let's consider a modified, street high-performance engine owned by someone who wants spark plugs to last 25-35,000 miles. Let's throw-in a requirement for excellent drivability with the lean, part-throttle, air-fuel ratios modern engines use. Also, let's figure the engine's not quite tuned right, maybe running a calibration that's a tad lean. Suddenly, we're asking a lot from spark plugs. Throttle response, even in near-lean-sag, tip-in situations is a huge customer concern with newer cars. Car company engineers want to make the highest spark energy possible available at the center electrode tip but they want to do it with the least overall cost for the ignition system. You start considering all this "stuff" and iridium-tipped plugs start to look pretty darn good.

You want spark plug hype?
Forked side electrodes are a big one. The "SplitFire" is made by a major spark plug manufacturer for a company which does nothing but market products buit by others. It's nothing more than a standard spark plug which gets one extra step near the end of the manufacturing process: the ground electrode is split. How about the Bosch Platinum Plus 4 or any of the multi-electrode plugs, for that matter? In the vast majority of applcations the usefulness of plugs with more than one ground electrode is more of that hype. In fact, the Plus 4 might actually be costing performance rather than enhancing it. In the end, the only goal of a spark plug is to ignite the air-fuel mixture and anything that impedes that process is a negative for performance. Anything which makes the spark more accessible to the air-fuel mix enhances the ignition process. Why do racers cut side electrodes back or file them to a point? Why do racers "index" spark plugs? To expose more of the spark to the mixture. When you add side electrodes, such as Bosch does with its Plus 2 and Plus 4 products, you obstruct the path of the air-fuel mix to the spark. Not the right thing to do. Well....duh. Bottom line: you want marketing flimflam? Buy the Bosch Platinum Plus-4 spark plug.

Lastly, let's talk about some advantages of iridium as a spark plug material. First, iridium-tipped plugs with very fine wire center electrodes, such as the Denso "Iridium Power", require less voltage to fire the plug, sometimes as much as 20% less. In some cases this is no big deal but in others, like trying to use nitrous oxide or a supercharger with a stock ignition, maybe it is. Iridium has a higher melting point than platinum and a much higher melting point that the nickel alloys used in traditional spark plugs. This is a durability advantage because iridium-tipped plugs will resist wear better than do standard plugs and even better than platinum-tipped plugs.

So, how can you justify a $12 plug when a $3 will make the engine run ok. Well, the $3 plug may run well in a high-performance, aggressively-driven engine for 12,000 miles but an iridium plug might run well for 50,000-60,000 miles. You do the math. On this durability thing, there are some O.E. Densos in Lexus and Toyota vehicles which have a 0.7mm iridium tip and a platinum ground electrode, a combination that results in some stunning durability--up to 140,000 miles. Denso's performance aftermarket plug is called "Iridium Power" and uses a 0.4mm iridium tip, the smallest in the industry, and a nickel alloy side electrode. The Iridium Power plugs won't go as long as those double-iridium-tipped OE plugs but their durability is going to equal or exceed any of the platinum tipped plugs on the market and they require less voltage to fire compared to plats.

Oh yeah...the original question posed by this thread: what is my favorite plug?
The Denso Iridium Power. I have them in all my vehicles, 65 Malibu, 71 C3, 95 C4, 99 Blazer, 01 Camaro and 04 C5. I use the ITF20 in the Malibu and the C3. I use the IT22 in the C4 and IT20s in the Blazer, Camaro and the C5. Secondary favorites are the *original* AC Rapidfire (the non-platinum unit with the fluted center electrode) and, if I'm going to use a conventional plug the NGK BPR6FS for iron heads and the BPR6EFS for taper-seat aluminum heads, except the LT5.

 

[Evolution1980]

:L
Another post by Hib, another thread added to my browser's bookmarks/favorites section!

Thanks, Hib!