K&N Air Filter

[Vette/Berlina-coupe]

This is a good lesson in resisting Big-corp. propagandazing...

-America needs to learn to be much more discerning as to their believing much of the aggressive brainwashing promugated by the big-corporations, --this phony teaching of the gullible-public about the need for costly paper/air-filtration does nothing to prolong the life of your Vette's-motor, and is everything about enriching the stock-value of those like the probably well meaning but misinformed johnQ-public! No winning racer uses restrictive paper/air-filtration; -it is just plain silly to think that you even have to oil a K&N-filter, as i've clearly pointed out above, the carbon-soot continually created within your engine's combustion-chamber is a million-times more harmful that the ambient-air! However, if you enjoy throwing away your hard-earned money to make the likes of FramCorp-Executives ever-richer (they're laughing at you all the way to the Bank!) -then follow the advise of the highly-brainwashed Corp.-guys; --my hope is that you will learn to be much much more discerning about what you read and hear from greed/politically-motivated corporations, -who also own and totally control the war-mongering usNews-media (hint: -search the internet for anti-establishment Jeffersonian-style patriotism) .... In summation my point is, you're being suckers about the silly notion of a paper/air-inlet filter; --to do any good, the filter would nessarily have to be staged on the other end of the engine, -the outlet dummies; --otherwise you're just being made monkeys of (by propagandizing in general from all directions) so try to think more clearly about things, -this just being a small example, --perhaps the light will go ON any you'll say to yourself "self, -yah know, that guy actually did make good sense, -i see it clearly now (when you realize how you've been scammed by the money-grubbing establishment). To quote good'ol ZoraDuntov: "air-filters, AirFilters, --we don't need no stink'en AirFilters"... ~Bob vH

To below 'Evolution': -you're inaccurate my friend, this topic has not at all been covered before as i am addressing it, --am stating that short of somehow finding a dirt-road somewere nowadays, one does not really need an air-filtration means other than a washable/reusable open-celled urethane-ring, or a simple flame-screen('53-'54 Vettes), to block ingestion of flying-bugs (although they probably would not hurt your engine, yet could faul-up your carb-jets); --moreover, your assertion as to an air-filtration medium serving to smooth-out the air-flow into the carb./airhorn is aerodynamically more effectively addressed via the air-trumpets employed upon racecars (or those natorious albeit effective airvane-devices sold aftermarket), or via the greedily abandoned Oilbath-aircleaner... ~B.vH

To below 'BerryK': -oh well, "you can lead a horse to water...." -at least i tried to explain the fallacy of the Paper-filter scam.... Yet good'ol 'Barry' is still concerned about his engine breathing the same ambient-air as himself; ----God help us!!! Many HongKong Chinese are indeed now walking around with air-filters on their faces, -but the human respiratory-sys. is far more prone to poluted-air damage than an IC-engine.... ~B.vH

In Conclusion: -those of you who've not contributed a single dime toward sustaining this truly wonderful and beneficial CAC-website, --think to yourselves... "if i haden't wasted/squandered a bunch of "greenie$" toward the silly "disposable paper/air-filters" scheme, -why i could have much more intelligently contributed toward CAC's prosperity than those scam-artists worthless on-going "throw-away" bilking of the public... ~B.vH

 

[Evolution1980]

The difference as I believe it to be is this:
The amount of airflow between a new K&N and a new paper filter is the same. (...and man, this topic has been hashed out sooooo many times...it almost deserves it's own thread in The Edge forum and not here).
However, the difference starts to show as the filters become more dirty. Given the same amount of contaminents, the dirty paper filter will flow significantly less than the K&N.
If you live in a rather dirty/dusty environment, in the long run you'll probably save a couple of bucks with a K&N because you clean it and put it back in.
I would also think (but don't know for sure) that the oiled cotton-gauze of a K&N will withstand the elements better (such as high humidity and/or long term storage).

If you are running a stock setup on your 78, then you don't see the filter anyway. Nor would you notice even a 10hp gain (which you won't get from just a filter swap).

At the first CruiseFest in '04, at the dyno pulls, I actually had brought with me a brand new paper filter just for the purpose of checking claims. Unfortunately, I brought the wrong diameter! I looked up the size in book for which filter to get, and forgot that I had replaced my setup with a larger diameter.

Switching gears ever so slightly...
I certainly don't want to get into anything with Vette-Berlina, but our cars, especially those with open-element setups, DO IN FACT see a noticeable power INCREASE from having a filter atop the carburator. And, if you are an engineer, you will understand with ease why this is. I'm sure you know about air flow into the carb, through the intake, into the engine, blah blah blah...and know that the smoother the airflow into the carb, the better atomization of the a/f mixture. Without an air filter, the carburator doesn't have the steady supply of 'stablized' air that occurs within the airfilter. It has to 'work harder' to pull the turbulent air above the carb down into it. How do I know this? Because I have the start to finish, "with filter" and "without filter" video of my dyno run, with full graph and professional explaination to go with it.

And last but not least, back to the "which filter is better" question, Hib Halverson (which very few people will argue with in terms of knowledge) has said that there's a better filter than a K&N, and it's some green one. The article is around here or the net somewhere. If I'm feeling up to it, maybe I'll hunt it down and post the link here.

 

[Rob]

And last but not least, back to the "which filter is better" question, Hib Halverson (which very few people will argue with in terms of knowledge) has said that there's a better filter than a K&N, and it's some green one. The article is around here or the net somewhere. If I'm feeling up to it, maybe I'll hunt it down and post the link here.

http://corvetteactioncenter.com/reviews/censura.php?cmd=details&itemid=105

 

[BarryK]

No winning racer uses restrictive paper/air-filtration

and this is relevent to a street car in what way?
yes, the K&N flow a bit more air but phyics is physic no matter how you want to look at it. Increased air flow is achieved by less filtration meaning less protecting of dirt, and other airborne containinaints into the engine.
it's pretty simple really: more airflow=less filtration=less engine protection.
What little and most likey insignificant amount of HP increase that may be gained by the better flowing K&N filters is overriiden by the negative effects of all that extra dirt being introduced into the motor.

Now, on a RACE car things are looked at a bit differently. In that case the race car designer is looking for every possible bit of power he can squeeze out of the motor and the best flowing filter they can use is what works best. All they care about is lots of power and having the motor survive for the one race. They are most likely completely tearing down and rebuilding the motor for the next race anyway so if there was any affect from any contaimanation thru the air filter who cares? If the motor puts out the power and it lasts for the race that's all that counts.

since nobody is going to rebuild the motor on their street car every week practicle requirements are somewhat different and most of us are willing to forego an insignificant amount of extra HP to be assured our motors will last for the long term.

 

[Evolution1980]

http://corvetteactioncenter.com/reviews/censura.php?cmd=details&itemid=105

Ahh, The master of this domain chimes in with the link I was looking for. If anyone should know their way around the castle, I would think it would be Rob.

Let me just toss in another 2 cents worth here for people who have so far responded. This was a relatively simple question asked by a fellow member. This should not turn into a ****ing contest between the rest of us. If you'd all like to argue the point, take it to "The Edge" where lively, civilized banter is more tolerated. We can all be pretty sure that there's going to be a watchful eye on this thread now...

 

[BarryK]

To below 'BerryK': -oh well, "you can lead a horse to water...." -at least i tried to explain the fallacy of the Paper-filter scam.... Yet good'ol 'Berry' is still concerned about his engine breathing the same ambient-air as himself; ----God help us!!! Many HongKong Chinese are indeed now walking around with air-filters on their faces, -but the human respiratory-sys. is far more prone to poluted-air damage than an IC-engine.... ~B.vH

whatever.......... you believe what you want and I'll believe what I want and I prefer to base my decisions on scientific results such as those offered by JohnZ previously on his OEM testing rather than some drivel about propaganda and brainwashing and war-mongering and whatever else that is completely irrelevant to the use of and performance of a simple air filter.
BTW, my name is BARRY, not BERRY - I'm not a small fruit that grows on bushes and trees.
Happy New Year!

 

[67HEAVEN]

We can all be pretty sure that there's going to be a watchful eye on this thread now...

Let's hope that this thread returns to a discussion of air filters. Any deviation into politics or other non-relevant issues and appropriate measures will be taken.

 

[Vettehead Mikey]

Like I said- How 'bout them Mets?

 

[67HEAVEN]

Vette/Berlina-coupe, you've been pushing it in this thread. Denigration of other races and/or religions is verboten on CAC. In case that was missed the first time, it is NOT ALLOWED.

Now you remove staff comments to cover your tracks? :eyerole Three-day ban.

This thread has run its course.