Ken's Engine Project...

[-=Jeff=-]

The MAF has more snsors and more authority to vary the engine parameters, but the speed density system is simpler, with less sensors. There seems no advantage, from a performance point (evidenced also, partially, by GMs return to MAF after 2 years). I figued that once built, I'd leave this engine alone, having already gone to the 'nth' degree.

I have to disagree on your statement on the no advantage to swap from the 85-89 MAF to SD.

The ECM on the 85-89 Only allows 2 bytes for a total of 0-255. which directly represents the MAF gm/s. With the newer MAF's in the 94 and up cars the MAF has more room for growth as opposed to the system in the older cars.

A MAF system is much more forgiving to mods, where a SD car needs a perfect tune to run right. In a MAF car, the MAF calculates the airflow.. in the 85-89 max is 255. in a newer LT1 MAF car ther are more Bytes allowed so the ECM can read more flow.

The SD or MAP is a calculated system. it measures the MAP in kPA and then has a table with MAP and RPM. pin pints that cross section where that RPM value and the MAP value meet and that is your fuel value. I have looked into going to the PCM with MAF from a 94 vette but there is WAY too much work. The GM SD ECM is easier.

As for the Aftermarket systems.. if you get the FAST set-up with a wide band o2 you can enter in the Stoich ratio and then it will correct everything for you. you can then go in an fine tune it as well.

Phil, It was nice to meet you.. Keep me posted on the ALDL problem, I will also contact EASE with a couple questions

 

[Ken]

A local guy is mandatory...

You said a mouthful with those five simple words Whale, and hopefully I found someone here locally who can handle it. At least, I'll give 'em a chance; you ever had a dealings or heard anything about Bothwell's Automotive Electric in Torrance? I'm going to take it to Steve Monday and let him look it over. I talked to Gil there the other day and he is basically saying the same thing you said about another DFI.

I was thinking yesterday that this could make an interesting type of business, where you have a "counseling service" for those that are about to undertake a automotive project, be it engine, body, interior, whatever. Get a few people together with the right resources to answer any and all questions, and to be able to help develop a plan for the project.

Noted builders do this all the time, but this could be set up as a service for planning and laying out the project. No muss, no fuss, just paperwork. :L

Thanks for your input guys, I really appreciate it, I just wish I knew what the hell I am doing! :crazy

_ken

 

[-=Jeff=-]

I loacl guy is not necessarily Manadory.. but more convenient..

For example:

Let's say I knew a guy in Denver that wanted the car tuned.. They were willing to spend the $50 for a ALDL Cable and use Craig moates Freeware.. they go out and drive the car without going to WOT. gettting a ton of data. whether they understand it or not. They will log it and send it to me VIA Email. I would then ask that they send their current MEMCAL.. I would read it in my computer and send their MEMCal directly back ( Down time is minimal) I would then crunch the file of data.. Change the Calibration in the downloaded file I have.. burn a PROM and build them a custom socketed Memcal. I would then Mail it to them..

They would then drive the car again logging data and send it to me.

I would then change that latest version file I sent them.. burn a new PROM.. send it out with instructions on the swap.

All I would ask is after they have more then 2 PROMs. to keep 2 and send the rest back to be re programmed with any other changes...

Granted a Shop locally will do this.. But it can also be done if the tuner is out of state.. You don't need a dyno to tune.. just DIACOM, Craigs Freeware, EASE, or such and someone to burn and manipulate the data.

I do my own tuning.. I don't use a dyno.. for WOT. I will use the track.. for cruising around town. I just just that, cruise around town and get about 20min of data..

 

[Ken]

Man, now I'm thoroughly confused. :Silly

 

[69MyWay]

Ken, get the connector, and the other software, and record the Data for Jeff.

I think he knows what he is talking about.

The more he does, the better he will get, and you will have the direct connection right here to get it tweaked in to perfection.


If I was red hot about tweaking the 90, that is the route I would go.

 

[Ken]

Jeff, one thing that confuses me is that on the one hand you say we can tweak the chip to accomodate the MAF, but then you state that the SD system is more easily and readily tunable (which I read as being more desirable).

Hell, I am open to all suggestions obviously, and I think you're right Chris in suggesting that I take advantage of Jeff's offer, but the only problem I have with attacking this thing by long-distance is the fact that I want to have someone local on which I can rely for future work. Someone I can drive to as Phil did the other day when Jeff looked at his car.

Hey, maybe I'll switch coasts and move to Florida so I can have you to help me in the future. I don't know if I could take living back in the midwest guys, sorry. :L

So, back to which is more desirable; is it MAF or MAP?

_ken

 

[-=Jeff=-]

Ken,

basically what the way I would attack it.. is tune for the MAF.. since you have a bunch of new MAF pieces until you cannot tune it any further.. then switch to MAF..

Yes MAP is easier toi tune and calibrate.. but the MAF is not too bad either..


I say try out the MAF system first.. then if that still is not optimum.. then switch to MAP..

 

[69MyWay]

Move to Florida...............Excellent idea!

In fact, we have a nice all brick house catty-corner to my house on a large corner lot getting ready to go Repo. I think it could be had for less than $100K. There is enough room in the back yard for six car hauling trailers, and you would be right next door to......ME! (oh, and no emission testing either).

So, load up and come on! We will keep a light on for ya.

 

[Ken]

Ok, I'll tell ya what; I'll take it in as planned on Monday to this shop in Torrance and see what we come up with. Then either way, I'll work something out with you Jeff in regards the thing we spoke of in private. I'm curious myself.

In the meantime, I'm back to trying to sell parts, and find a truck again. :L

Thanks guys, I'll fill you in with what the outcome is Monday.

_ken

 

[maxrevs85]

This has been a very interesting conversation. I dont realy understand much of it ,but I'm trying....I'm hoping i will not have too many problems ,but it sounds like the odds are not too good . This will be very discouraging after spending so much money.
Chris , you seemed to have yours running pretty well. Your satisfied with the performance . I too hope to get it to a point where it is at least enjoyable to drive.

 

[-=Jeff=-]

Hey Ken any info on your diagnostics today?

 

[Ken]

Not today Jeff. I took it there and he grabbed some numbers, along with some info on the computer for that model year, and he will get back to me soon. Thanks for your interest.

_ken

 

[Ken]

I forgot to tell you guys about the engine that was sitting on the floor at Bothwell's when I was there yesterday. How's a Cavalier four-cylinder engine putting out 950+ horsepower grab ya? :J

_ken

 

[Ken]

I hope these work!

Looks like I have some work to do tomorrow.


Here's what's inside of these now:


I think (hope!) this will quiet it enough to drive it on the street.

_ken

 

[Tom Bryant]

That has to be about the strangest gadget I've ever seen. Are you sure that goes on the exhaust? :L

 

[Bullitt]

I need a laugh so...

Exhaust? I thought Ken was showing off his "unit" again. :L

--Bullitt

 

[Ken]

Did you say "unit"?

:L

A guy is walking along a beach when he comes across a lamp partially buried in the sand. He picks up the lamp, rubs it, and two blonde genies appear. They tell the guy he has been granted three wishes. He makes his three wishes and the blonde genies disappear. The next thing he knows, he's in a bedroom, in a mansion, surrounded by 50 beautiful women. He makes love to all of them and then begins to explore the house. Suddenly he feels something soft under his feet; he looks down and the floor is covered with $100 bills. Then, there is a knock at the door. He answers the door and standing there are two persons dressed in Ku Klux Klan outfits. They drag him to the nearest tree, throw a rope over a limb and hang him by the neck until he is dead. The Klansmen walk off. As they walk, they remove their hoods; it's the two blonde genies!

One blonde genie says to the other one "Hey, I can understand the first wish to have all those beautiful women in a big mansion to make love to. I can also understand him wanting to be a millionaire. But why in the world anyone would want to be hung like a black man is beyond me!"

There Lou, I did it! :L

I hope nobody takes offense.

I started to install the sound chambers today, but the inner two bolts are very difficult to reach without dropping the whole "weldment", so I gave up for now. I gotta get it back in the air to reach the inner bolts and remove the weldments I think. Geez, it's always something that makes an easy job difficult, eh? :eyerole

_ken

 

[BigRed]

ROFL Im using that one THATS FUNNY LOL

Good one Ken (No offense of course these are jokes)

On your sound chambers do they sit on the side exhaust itself? Or between the header and the initial curve towards the side exhaust?

Im just curious to where theres room for these I saw your pictures and the look large?! But if you put them inside the molding for your side exhaust, won't they rub or burn the molding?

I just had my car in there air and was looking to how yours was working wit the natural slots in the body for the exhaust..Did'nt see any LOL

Curious Cat over here..:s

 

[Ken]

Red, I pulled the rocker panels this afternoon (I was going to change the sound chambers but couldn't reach a couple of bolts - gotta get it in the air :eyerole) so I'll grab a couple of pictures tomorrow for everybody to see how it sits beneath the rocker panels.

_ken

 

[Rowdy1]

OH SURE, Drag ME in To IT!!!!!

My Hero! You sure we should get together in person huh?:crazy