New intake for crossfire = more HP!!!!

[CorvetteArchives]

Yeah, butt ugly. Yours looks pretty spiffy but I have always felt G.M. went out of their way to make butt ugly air cleaners for the '84's. Huge monsters they are. The air cleaners used on the '82's are clean and to the point, but the air cleaners used on the '84's are overkill to the max. They are so huge you'd never know there is a Renegade under it. It's too bad G.M. decided to do away with the slick ram air previously used on the '82's. I would think the ram air would add about 10 more horsepower at 100 mph.

That fcomment further confirm my previous assessment

The 82's are HIDEOUS compared to the 84. The 82 has ZERO Industrial Design involved....they look like a seat of the pants last minute thing that was thrown together (because it was)...
GM spent a long time debating the Industrial Design of the entire engine bay for 84 right down to a custom battery...and it shows!

 

[nelson84]

The ram air on 84s have too many 90* turns to be effective. I like low restrictive air cleaners. This air cleaner base is very smooth & funnels air right in the tbi. On cfi I'd get 2 4 cylinder air cleaners, cut em up, & make a dual qual looking set up. I did that years ago, the engine ran lean b/c I didn't know you could make the stock fuel pressure reg. adjustable. I think there is potential in open element set up.

The point of the 84 ram air setup is to suck cold air from outside and feed the crossfire through the hood. Your setup is just sucking hot air from your engine.

 

[ex-x-fire]

I don't worry about that, I've got coated exhaust manifolds. Also my ducting in the hood is still there, so it keeps the air moving.
Plus the intakes that I use do not have a big coolant channel that runs down the center like crossfire intakes.

 

[nelson84]

The renegades are on the way.

 

[toobroketoretire]

The renegades are on the way.

Halleleuja. It's been a long wait. I'm glad to hear the Renegades are finally shipping.

 

[ex-x-fire]

Hey nelson84, are you gonna do the install or take it to a shop? I know toobroke will do his own, how about some pics, maybe do a road test before & after.

 

[vetteoz]

maybe do a road test before & after.

He is ; it's called SOTP testing otfl
Race tracks and dynos scare him otherwise he would already have his baseline figures.
Get ready for the ;
" it pulls really hard now " and "really revs out" comments without any numbers

 

[toobroketoretire]

Hey nelson84, are you gonna do the install or take it to a shop? I know toobroke will do his own, how about some pics, maybe do a road test before & after.

Back when I was 16 years old, I burned up the Powerglide in my '59 Chevy. I took my car to the G.M. dealer for the repair and that was the last time I ever hired someone else to do any repairs for me. I'm now 62 years old and have rebuilt well over 250 engines and countless automatic transmissions. So yes, I'm going to do the Renegade installation myself.

 

[Hib Halverson]

He is ; it's called SOTP testing otfl
Race tracks and dynos scare him otherwise he would already have his baseline figures.
Get ready for the ;
" it pulls really hard now " and "really revs out" comments without any numbers

Yeah...I hate to say it but I, too, will not be surprised if we start to see a lot of "butt dyno test numbers" in this thread.

I am astonished that this thread has gone on for 18 freakin' months. "nelson84" has got to be the ultimate evangelist for the people making these intake manifolds.

Now that the Renegade is moving from "vaporware" to some actual parts one could test, I'd like to repeat a statement I made over a year ago in this thread

I'll challenge you guys...bring me a crossfire injected 82 or 84 that makes 330 at the wheels SAE-corrected. If I can duplicate that performance on the chassis dyno I use and then I road test the car and find it's nice to drive, passes a smog check and gets reasonable mileage, I'll write an article about it and try and get it published.

In that story, I'll eat crow on my belief that high-powered crossfire engines come at the expense of torque and driveabiilty.

Actually, I'll extend the same challenge to an engine that makes 300 or even 275 at the wheels.

Lastly, if I'm proved wrong, you can bet I'll admit it in print.

 

[toobroketoretire]

Yeah...I hate to say it but I, too, will not be surprised if we start to see a lot of "butt dyno test numbers" in this thread.

I am astonished that this thread has gone on for 18 freakin' months. "nelson84" has got to be the ultimate evangelist for the people making these intake manifolds.

Now that the Renegade is moving from "vaporware" to some actual parts one could test, I'd like to repeat a statement I made over a year ago in this threadActually, I'll extend the same challenge to an engine that makes 300 or even 275 at the wheels.

Lastly, if I'm proved wrong, you can bet I'll admit it in print.

I won't be doing any dyno testing because I see no point in it. My engine is sporting a set of big valve Dart heads and an Erson street roller, so I can't make any comparisons to stock. I'll leave the dyno testing to someone else who really cares. All I have ever wanted is improved performance from 4000 rpm and up, and I'm sure the Renegade will provide that. DCS tells me mine will be shipping out this week so I should be getting it within the next week.

 

[vetteboy86]

I won't be doing any dyno testing because I see no point in it. My engine is sporting a set of big valve Dart heads and an Erson street roller, so I can't make any comparisons to stock. I'll leave the dyno testing to someone else who really cares. All I have ever wanted is improved performance from 4000 rpm and up, and I'm sure the Renegade will provide that. DCS tells me mine will be shipping out this week so I should be getting it within the next week.

With the kind of pull you and Nelson have over at DCS, perhaps you can get them to partner with Hib in writing an article about their product. Seems only logical that they would want maximum exposure for their product.

 

[nelson84]

Hey nelson84, are you gonna do the install or take it to a shop? I know toobroke will do his own, how about some pics, maybe do a road test before & after.

Yes I will have some g-tech numbers before and after.

 

[nelson84]

Yeah...I hate to say it but I, too, will not be surprised if we start to see a lot of "butt dyno test numbers" in this thread.

I am astonished that this thread has gone on for 18 freakin' months. "nelson84" has got to be the ultimate evangelist for the people making these intake manifolds.

Now that the Renegade is moving from "vaporware" to some actual parts one could test, I'd like to repeat a statement I made over a year ago in this threadActually, I'll extend the same challenge to an engine that makes 300 or even 275 at the wheels.

Lastly, if I'm proved wrong, you can bet I'll admit it in print.

Just buy one don't be so cheap, do the article and keep the intake or sell it on ebay.

 

[Hib Halverson]

I won't be doing any dyno testing because I see no point in it. My engine is sporting a set of big valve Dart heads and an Erson street roller, so I can't make any comparisons to stock. I'll leave the dyno testing to someone else who really cares. All I have ever wanted is improved performance from 4000 rpm and up, and I'm sure the Renegade will provide that. DCS tells me mine will be shipping out this week so I should be getting it within the next week.

Yeah...for the purposes of a magazine test, your engine would skew the results too much. I'd rather test a stock short block with stock ported heads, an aftermarket cam and the stock induction. Then I'd test the same engine with the Renegade and appropriate calibration. That test would include not only chassis dyno but a driveability evaluation. The testing will have to be done at Westech Performance in Southern California. All we need is someone in to step up with the car and the labor to swap the parts.

But...this idea aside, I'll be very interested to see how your engine performs with the Renegade installed...to the point that I could see some data from your engine in a sidebar to the above-suggested test.

I'm disappointed that you're unwilling to put your car on a chassis dyno. I disagree that there's "no point in it". There's a big point in seeing how it performs, especially in light of your and "nelson84's" comments in this thread.

Perhaps you're not confident that the performance above 4000 will increase enough? I mean I can't think of any other reason why you wouldn't want to see how much of an improvement you got for your money.

 

[nelson84]

Yeah...for the purposes of a magazine test, your engine would skew the results too much. I'd rather test a stock short block with stock ported heads, an aftermarket cam and the stock induction. Then I'd test the same engine with the Renegade and appropriate calibration. That test would include not only chassis dyno but a driveability evaluation. The testing will have to be done at Westech Performance in Southern California. All we need is someone in to step up with the car and the labor to swap the parts.

But...this idea aside, I'll be very interested to see how your engine performs with the Renegade installed...to the point that I could see some data from your engine in a sidebar to the above-suggested test.

I'm disappointed that you're unwilling to put your car on a chassis dyno. I disagree that there's "no point in it". There's a big point in seeing how it performs, especially in light of your and "nelson84's" comments in this thread.

Perhaps you're not confident that the performance above 4000 will increase enough? I mean I can't think of any other reason why you wouldn't want to see how much of an improvement you got for your money.

Again spend your own money and do the test, stop trying to pass the buck.

 

[Evolution1980]

Again spend your own money and do the test, stop trying to pass the buck.

I if read through this thread correctly (and it's possible I didn't since I was just perusing it), I think you initially called out Hib based on something he said years ago. He has said he stands by those claims made years ago since there's been nothing new up to this point. Now you and the renegade evangelists are trying to say he's wrong. The burden of proof is now on you, not Hib. Quite frankly, Hib doesn't have to do anything since his original testing methodologies were scientific and repeatable. And he likely doesn't care one way or the other, but if only for the interest of it being more knowledge about the topic.
If you and the evangelists are going to start talking specific, measurable improvements, the onus is on you to supply the scientific measurements. Otherwise, you're just bench racers using a butt dyno.

The fact that Hib has openly stated that if this is a proven technology, he'll do his best to get it published. What more could you ask for?
If I was releasing a product that I had no doubts about, and a tech writer said, "Hey, supply us a test mule and we'll report it's results," I wouldn't be saying, "Hey, get your own if you want to write about it in a national publication." I would see that they had a working specimen yesterday!

(I don't have a dog in this fight, I'm just commenting on the back & forth between the groups.)

 

[nelson84]

I if read through this thread correctly (and it's possible I didn't since I was just perusing it), I think you initially called out Hib based on something he said years ago. He has said he stands by those claims made years ago since there's been nothing new up to this point. Now you and the renegade evangelists are trying to say he's wrong. The burden of proof is now on you, not Hib. Quite frankly, Hib doesn't have to do anything since his original testing methodologies were scientific and repeatable. And he likely doesn't care one way or the other, but if only for the interest of it being more knowledge about the topic.
If you and the evangelists are going to start talking specific, measurable improvements, the onus is on you to supply the scientific measurements. Otherwise, you're just bench racers using a butt dyno.

The fact that Hib has openly stated that if this is a proven technology, he'll do his best to get it published. What more could you ask for?
If I was releasing a product that I had no doubts about, and a tech writer said, "Hey, supply us a test mule and we'll report it's results," I wouldn't be saying, "Hey, get your own if you want to write about it in a national publication." I would see that they had a working specimen yesterday!

(I don't have a dog in this fight, I'm just commenting on the back & forth between the groups.)

No he asked if someone would give him an intake and for him to write an article to submit to a company so he can make money. All I said is if he is curios about this renegade why not buy one for himself and test it. Just like the rest of us that purchased a renegade. I will finally get mine within the next while and will install it and test it. I would rather have first hand testing by me. I could care less if he tests one or not why is his opion any better than anyone elses on this forum? If it performs well great, if it doesn't oh well. But word on the street is we won't be disappointed.

 

[Evolution1980]

Nelson, as I've always told people... It's your car. It's your money. As long as you are happy with the end result, that's all that matters!

 

[Evolution1980]

...why is his opion any better than anyone elses on this forum?

Most of the time Hib's words are not opinion, but facts achieved through industry accepted testing methods, which is more than most people can offer up.
Now, while I don't necessarily agree with everything Hib says, more often than not he's a reputable source for the reason I just gave. As well, if he does offer opinion in place of fact, it's likely an opinion formed from enough similar factual data to support it.

 

[toobroketoretire]

Yeah...for the purposes of a magazine test, your engine would skew the results too much. I'd rather test a stock short block with stock ported heads, an aftermarket cam and the stock induction. Then I'd test the same engine with the Renegade and appropriate calibration. That test would include not only chassis dyno but a driveability evaluation. The testing will have to be done at Westech Performance in Southern California. All we need is someone in to step up with the car and the labor to swap the parts.

But...this idea aside, I'll be very interested to see how your engine performs with the Renegade installed...to the point that I could see some data from your engine in a sidebar to the above-suggested test.

I'm disappointed that you're unwilling to put your car on a chassis dyno. I disagree that there's "no point in it". There's a big point in seeing how it performs, especially in light of your and "nelson84's" comments in this thread.

Perhaps you're not confident that the performance above 4000 will increase enough? I mean I can't think of any other reason why you wouldn't want to see how much of an improvement you got for your money.

Hib, if I was flush with money, I'd have my car dyno'd before and after the swap. But I've been totally disabled since 1996 and living on the meager income of Social Security Disability. So money is very tight and I can't see paying for two dyno pulls just to give the results to others. I AM curious for sure, but not curious enough to pay for two tests. I'll leave the dyno testing to someone else who is in a better financial position than I am.