New Paint -bubbles Appearing-help

[keith hodge]

:cry HI ALL-
I FINISHED MY FRAME OFF RESTO IN SEPTEMBER-I PAINTED THE CAR IN JULY
IN OCTOBER I NOTICED A SMALL BUBBLE OR BLISTER FORM IN REAR BELOW THE WINDOW--ALITTLE HISTORY-THE CAR WAS STRIPPED TO BARE GLASS 18YEARS AGO-CAR DIDNT NEED ANY BODY WORK-WAS ALL STRAIGHT AND WITH OUT DAMAGE--I SANDED THE PANELS AND APPLIED ECKLERS SPAY GEL COAT-BLOCKED IT OUT THEN A URATHANE SEALER/PRIMER-BLOCKED THAT OUT THEN SEALED AND PAINTED WITH DU PONT CHROMA PREMIER SYSTEM--BACK TO NOW---WHEN UNIT SAT IN 90 DEGREE WEATHER SOME SMALL BUBBLES APPEARED--TODAY AFTER ABOUT 9 APPEARED IN WARM TEMP I POCKED ONE WITH A NEEDLE -A LIGHT YELLOW LIQUID CAME OUT -IT DRIED LIKE TREE SAP-I CANT FOR THE LIFE OF ME FIGURE THIS ONE OUT --I SHOWED TO A FEW PEOPLE THAT HAVE BEEN IN THE PAINT BUSINESS LONGER THAN ME AND THEY HAVENT A CLUE-ONLY PRODUCT I HAVENT USED MUCH IS THE EKLERS SPAY GEL COAT --IS IT POSSIBLE SOMETHING HAPPENED?ANY IDEAS-CAR WAS PREPPED ALL CORRECTLY-AND THES ONLY APPEARED AFTER THE CAR WAS IN THE HEAT-PRIOR TO THAT NO BUBBLES--
I PUT A INFARED HEATER ON IT TODAY AND SOME MORE APPEARED-THEY COULD BE POPPED AND THE LIQUID WOULD COME OUT--IF THE LIQUID WAS LEFT ALONE IT WOULD CURE TO THE TREE SAP CONSISTANCY--IM NOT SURE WHAT TO DO--HAS ANYONE RUN ACROSS THIS?
KEITH :eek :confused :cry

 

[MidShark]

Kieth

How was the car stripped? If a chemical stripper was used, and was not cleaned off properly, the result could be what you are describing. Solvents that get trapped under the paint will try to get out later, unfortunately, especially when it is exposed to direct sunlight. I had a '60 Vette that had this happen on one spot on the body after being painted (it had been chemichally stripped). Never appeared until the car was put together and was on the road two years later. Unfortunately, the only fix in this case was to get back down to bare glass, let it bake out, and then repaint. Hopefully one of the knowledgable body/paint guys will reply to this.

Dick

 

[keith hodge]

paint

im not sure how it was tripped-i bought the car from a man who paid a corvette body shop in oregon to strip it 20 years ago--when i got it 2 years ago the car was stipped to bare glass-they did a nice job-but they had done it 18 years prior to me getting the car---the guy i got the car from was over his head and had no mechanical knowledge -so there the car sat in his spare garage.
--this is the 2nd mid year that i have done--the 1st is used chemical stripper but let gas out ( left in bare glass) in my garage for 6 mths prior to using eklers spay gel coat on it (that was in 1988) unless something has changed in the process-- didnt have a problem--but im not sure how this one was stripped-but it was at a corvette resto shop in oregon--cant remember the name-
when i put the infared heat on them the bubbles stopped growing at about 1/4 to 3/8 diameter :eek :confused all along right below the side of the rear glass--i did put heat on the same side on the rear fender --no bubbles started--i poked all the bubbled with the needle and pressed the ozzing liquid out--seemed to no keep producing liquid--
keith

 

[WayneC]

I can't help, other than to say that all those years of sitting around certainly should have dried the car sufficiently! So I would suspect contaminated surface, a paint product incompatibility, or the possibility that oil or moisture is getting into your paint gun's air supply. I am really curious to know what caused the problem.

You might try asking your question here:

http://pub26.ezboard.com/fpaintucationfrm1

Please let us know if you find an answer.

 

[jerrybramlett]

I agree with Wayne. It sounds like oil/moisture from the compressor that was used while spraying. Did you use a professional spray set-up with in-line dryers? What was the weather like during the days you shot paint?

I'm not clear on one point. Is the liquid bubbling up under the gel-coat layer or above it?

 

[keith hodge]

the weather was a nice sunny day- with no wind out-i painted it in a enclosed professional booth, --as far as how deep it goes -i havent peeled one off yet-just poked with needle and bleed them out---the is a filtering system on the air lines, but no drier --that could be a possibility-have used this set up and booth for 15 year with out having this concern -but strange things happen--i quess the next step is to actually cut one off and see how deep it goes.
keith

 

[paintdaddy]

It sounds like everything was done right.Do you know if the car sat outside after it was stripped?If the car sat outside with out glass in it ,it could have soaked up alot of water in the track where the rear window lays.Fiberglass is like a sponge and it may look dry on top but still have moisture inside.Its a long shot but thats all I could think of.

 

[keith hodge]

the car sat for 18 years inside of a garage--it should have been plenty dry--i did get the body wet during when i wet sanded it with the glass out of the car--do you think water had gotten trapped in that pocket? do you think it would come past the gel coat rather than inward? the car did sit apart in the garage fo 2 mths after i painted it --if water is trapped do you think i should either drill some small holes on the inside channell to drain it or should i put heat on it from the inside to try to evaporate it before putting it in the sun again-since i only put the heat to one side so far--the other side only has one bubble so far--also the only thing about water is why would it dry to a tree sap type consistancy? it does ozz out in the consistancy of water with a slight yellow tint. :confused

 

[paintdaddy]

Im not sure this ones got me stumped.I would say,if and when you fix it,strip the area with a da sander and let it sit out in the sun for a week or put a heat lamp on it ,off and on for a week.
I wouldnt think wetsanding it would have caused this.
Also,I ,personally wouldnt put gelcoat on it after drying it out.Gel coat is a polyester product and polyester products are moisture sensitive during the application process.
I know this must make you sick.Me not being perfect has had my share of redoes due to things outside my control.

 

[keith hodge]

yes it does make me sick --ive painted many vehicles -this is a first-like i said i consulted many friends in the business-they also were stumped :cry
has any one seen this happen or something simular with gel coat being used
keith

 

[rowingone]

If the spray gelcoat was an epoxy based and not polyester based you could have some compatibility problems with your topcoats - something to check anyway.

 

[SHADY80]

Had the same problem with my BLACK 80 vette.BUBBLES WOULD POP UP,MORE SO, WHEN THE CAR WAS IN THE SUN; TRIED EVERYTHING,ASKED EVERYONE ,AND THE ONLY THING that could be done to fix this BUBBLE problem,was to take it down,and paint it again.So thats what i did and thats what fixed it.

 

[keith hodge]

did you have the same oozzing problem with it or were the bubles empty?
did you ever figure out what was causing it?
how far down in the paint process did your bubbles start at?
thanks keith

 

[SHADY80]

Keith,my problem was exactly the same as you are having.The vette was spotless except for the two spots i had.I was never happy with the car,even when it was washed and waxed and looked perfect.I tried everything, asked everybody,i could about what to do,and the answer was always the same;take it down to the glass and paint again.the problem i had was i had to paint the whole front end because it could;nt be blended.And yes it did ozzz when i picked it and it went down through all the paint.GOOD LUCK; FREDDIE E-MAIL ME ANY TIME GOIRISH122@CS.COM

 

[keith hodge]

bubble update

well i took the car out again this weekend--it was a nice sunny day-took over to my uncles house -first time he saw it --to my surprise after sitting out front a few hours --the rear area around the gas lid and below the glass looks like it has the measles--alls i wanted to do was cry:cry . i got so frustrated i took a razor and cut it off--the paint was comming loose between the gel coat and the epoxy sealer/primer--as if it didnt bond--still cant figure out the oozzing--
used all dupont products except for ecklers gel coatthe was long board sanded from 60 grit to 80 grit to 120 grit then put the dupont epoxy primer/sealer
appears everything else bonded to it --any ideas:confused
keith

 

[WayneC]

Talk to Ecklers, maybe they've had problems like this reported in the past.

I feel for you, I had a somewhat similar problem with a frame; I was so crushed that I let the thing sit for 2 years (couldn't bear to look at it, and didn't know what to do different the next time) before I finally ground all the paint off and started again. At the time I suspected two possibilities: 1) that the paint shop, where the color was mixed, may have cheated by used something other than the manufacturer's specified ingredients in the formula, or 2) that I just didn't do a good enough job of cleaning the surface before I painted. All went well the second time... I implored the paint jobber not to deviate one iota from DuPont's specified ingredients, I read all paint labels very carefully to be sure I adhered to drying times and such, and I did a super meticulous job cleaning the metal before I started painting.

 

[paintdaddy]

I got nothing.All I can say is start stripping.If its coming lose between the gel coat and primer,thats where you need to stop sanding.But if the oozing problem is everywhere you might want to go all the way down to the glass again.If you do go all the way down to the glass sand it off with a DA dont use stripper.Ive never had a problem with strippers but it sounds like thats where the oozing is coming from one way or another.

 

[rowingone]

Since no one can figure it out . . why dont you take some of the "ooze" to a local lab and have it analyzed . . . might cost you $100 or so but at least you would have some piece of mind about what caused the problem. Also call dupont tech line of whatever product you used.

 

[IH2LOSE]

Sorry for your troubles.I can only imagine your frustration.

Before you painted your car did you ever get it in the sun to gas out? ( even thought it was stripped so long ago maybee the stripper was never gassed out with the heat or sun.

Remember it can be anything in the pores of the glass and need to evaporate out.

Good luck

 

[Tyler Townsley]

If you bought the paint from a reputable paint store the paint may have a lifetime warentee. I have a couple of friends that do paint/repair for a living and what you have described has come up before. In 87/88 the automakers were experimenting with the new paint systems and the dupont systems had problems like you describe, in fact I have an untouched June 87 build zr1 with 3500 mi that has exactly what you describe. I asked them about it and they remember repainting both GM and Ford products as the primers were breaking down from UV and bubbling under the topcoat. Since they knew the dupont systems were having problems they switched to Siekens and have never had any problems with the many repaints they did at the time. The Siekens rep was by the other day and said his paint has a lifetime guarentee for something like this. Both friends also say they do not like gelcoat as it sometimes is not compatable with the top systems. They use a different product (cannot remember the product) will ask them next week. Neither of them like Dupont and will not use it because of its past track record.

I think in many cases where the fiberglass was blaimed for leaching out some absorbed chemical it was in reality a breakdown in the actual paint products due to UV and bad chemistry on the part of the paint companies.

Tyler