New Paint -bubbles Appearing-help

[paintdaddy]

The paint guarantee only applies if the painter has been through the paint manufactureres training program and keeps it up to date every two years.

 

[magicv8]

I have heard resto shop discussions about repop panels that had bubble problems - and the manufacturer's recommended solution came down to a 20 mil thick gel coat - the normal thickness was not enough.

 

[vette]

I had the same thing happen at my shop. we got a car in from a local shop to do the paint work ,they had put the eklers primer or the bare glass. we let the car sit out in the sun for a few weeks before painting and the primer bubbled up in many spots. after talking to the other shop we found the did not sand the bare glass very good. i like to sand the car with 100 grit before any primer is put on. we first thought it was solvet pop due to the gooy stuff that came out. i never did find out for sure. we had to strip the car again. and use the primer we always use. we use a polyester based primer the i get from a fiberglass supplier that is used on boats. it is very high build and is mixed with MEK like most.

 

[65TripleBlack]

Keith:

Check your "private message" folder, on this forum. This is all very familiar.

 

[keith hodge]

thanks for all the help-i have spoken with the paint shop-the du pont rep is suppost to look at it when in town in next 2 weeks-they say they may help-ho knows--im so frustrated with it that im sick--actually the thought of dissasembling the car completly again makes me sicker--it sounds like this isnt new to dupont --from what ive found out they have had this issue before but dont talk about it--well we will see i guess.

 

[keith hodge]

du pont rep comes early

well got the phone call today-
the dupont rep is supposed to come by tommarrow-
i will let you know the out come if any

 

[paintdaddy]

I have magical powers.Something tells me its not going to be the paints fault.

 

[vette]

Sounds like you preped the eklers primer right. Dose the paint peel away from the epoxy sealer or just bubble. My dupont rep was in on tuesday and i showed him this post. He said it sounds like solvent pop but that dose not account for the ozeing. I stated before that i had this happen, but it was the eklers primer coming off the glass, the car was not painted yet. It would be normal for solvent pop to occur if the basecoat was not allowed to flash enough, and that could cause what you have. It still dose not account for the ozeing. I hate to say it and i know you have already heard it but stripping and starting again sounds like your only option.I would think if it where an adhesion problem between the top coat and the sealer it should peel apart in a sheet. let us know what you come up with. PS Paintdaddy can see the future,it wont be the paints fault.

 

[Vette Fink]

I'd say too much catalyst in something. I have experienced problems with all types of media in body work, and most things won't cure totally if there is too much catalyst mixed in them.

 

[studiog]

Hey Keith,
First let me say I'm not an expert, but I have done some research for my own project and I have read that the Ecklers gel coat has a very short shelf life and I was given the impression that you can have bad results if everything isn't just right. Just thought I would pass that on for what it's worth. Sorry for your troubles.

 

[keith hodge]

update from the rep

well all the paint expert came along with the paint store owner to inspect the car --first we went over the complete process on what was done , how it was done, prep work ect. then they requested to read the paper work on the gel coat--i still had the can with the instructions so they read it--the paint expert agreed that all was applied as it was supposed to, along with the correct dry times--he then asked to take a razor to the bubbles and cut the biggest one off:cry -i now have a 1 inch square missing :cry --it went to the gel coat-showin the primer lack of adheasion--we discussed the uro primer and its adheasion properties-well the end result is they admitted nothing--also they tip toed around the paint warranty-you know certified installer --but they had gotten alot of comments from the various body shops in town-i know almost all of them very well and most of them use du pont--so maybe that helped--but they did agree to cover all material costs to redue it -along with that they want me to use another primer/surfacer they offer--not the uro primer(interesting) i cant remember the product #6150 i think-
they also want me to take to one of the other shops and put the car in the oven to 140 degrees tosee what it will do--so that is the next step--

are there any concerns i should have getting the body to that temp?
i know ambient temps can get up to 110 degrees or alittle higher--
please let me know
thanks keith

ps i know what i will be doing on my weekends and nights for a while

 

[vette]

I just wrote this in the other forum. If you can use someones heated booth go for it. after your car is in primer cook it as long as you can. I like to see an hour or more. your car gets hotter than 140 f. in the sun. dont worry about the temp. I like to see 200 f if possible. To get a little more surface temp out of it use a black guide coat over your primer. you can wrap the car in black plastic also that will help get the surface temp of the car good and hot. after about half an hour remove the plastic and let the car stay for a half hour more. if you do this in the summer the sun dose a good job also. PS studiog has a good point about the eklers primer. also put the primer on a shaker before you open the can. and mix and spray right after it comes off the shaker. do not just mix it with a stick!! I dont want to get anyone ****ed but i my self do not like the eklers primer but thats just my 2 cents. This is how i have been doing this for many years. it works. paintdaddy do you have any opinion on this?

 

[65TripleBlack]

well all the paint expert came along with the paint store owner to inspect the car --first we went over the complete process on what was done , how it was done, prep work ect. then they requested to read the paper work on the gel coat--i still had the can with the instructions so they read it--the paint expert agreed that all was applied as it was supposed to, along with the correct dry times--he then asked to take a razor to the bubbles and cut the biggest one off:cry -i now have a 1 inch square missing :cry --it went to the gel coat-showin the primer lack of adheasion--we discussed the uro primer and its adheasion properties-well the end result is they admitted nothing--also they tip toed around the paint warranty-you know certified installer --but they had gotten alot of comments from the various body shops in town-i know almost all of them very well and most of them use du pont--so maybe that helped--but they did agree to cover all material costs to redue it -along with that they want me to use another primer/surfacer they offer--not the uro primer(interesting) i cant remember the product #6150 i think-
they also want me to take to one of the other shops and put the car in the oven to 140 degrees tosee what it will do--so that is the next step--

are there any concerns i should have getting the body to that temp?
i know ambient temps can get up to 110 degrees or alittle higher--
please let me know
thanks keith

ps i know what i will be doing on my weekends and nights for a while

Keith:

Remember, that is exactly what I suggested to you via phone, 2 weeks ago. You must first strip the entire area down to bare glass, then apply heat to leach out any remaining contaminants.

I have gotten the surface temp as high as 200 degrees with IR heat lamps, without any problem. I would not, however, subject the entire car to oven temps much higher than 150, for fear of drying out rubber and vinyl/leather components.

Good luck.

Joe

 

[vette]

65 TRiple black has a point. i guess i am used to doing paint with the body off the frame and apart. sorry for the bad advise on the temp. 150 f should be fine. By the way one of my painters just went to a dupont class last week he told me today that dupont is going to stop selling the uro prime. wonder why?

 

[John Mcgraw]

I would suggest that there is no need to go back to the bare glass since the problem does not to appear to go past the surface of the Gelcoat. It sure sounds like the Dupont primer was to blame! If the blistering went through the gelcoat layer, thenI would agree that you should take it down to the bare glass.

Regards, John McGraw

 

[KANE]

Oil contaminants in the glass will do the same thing and cause bubbles in the finish. That will really tick you off because you will have a terrible time trying to get the oil out of the fiberglass.

 

[keith hodge]

oven baking

well hopefully if it dosn't rain on saturday it will go into the oven for a couple hrs to see if the entire care is going to bubble or just a isolated area--
i agree with why is dupont quitting the uro primer? the rep without saying so much seemed to lead that way since they have offered to pay for materials and they want me to use a differant product -hum i quess it all makes since--to bad it had to happen--to bad they don't let the paint stores know to use this other product--i just used what the paint store reccomended to put on it--since the last one i painted was my 1965 coupe in 1988 and i used k36 primer/surfacer over the gel coat--it still looks great--i'll let you know after it bakes-
keith

 

[paintdaddy]

I got a bad feeling its not going to be isolated.I wish you the best of luck.They probably decided to discontinue the uro primer due to epa laws or a cheaper alternative therefore the uo primer wasnt selling as well.Uro primer has been out for about 15 years.I cant see them getting rid of it due to being a poor quality primer after 15 years.

 

[keith hodge]

oven bakeing done

well the car went into the oven today--we baked 2 cycles-at 150 degrees
each cycle lasted approx 35 minutes--boy that was scary--when i walked into the booth i was surprised how hot the car got:eek --well the good news was a couple more bubbles came out-very small but were in the same area--the rest of the car held fine--i think at this point i may just stripe the effected area, since the only area is the rear deck area and alond the rear glass--i can strip from top of fender to top of fender-side to side and to the area between the door and the rear glass--what do you guys think?--we all know the pain and effort it will take to strip entire car down--seems to me it is worth the gamble--
figure i ca chemically strip and let gas out--then repaint the rear section and blend at the windshield posts--seems like the best spot--any ideas od any othe processes.
thanks keith

 

[vette]

Keith. Sounds like your doing just fine. If you can just strip the rear deck and blend the quarters and the roof, thats not to bad. I would heat the car again after you strip it and again before you final sand, just to be safe. Im going to dechrome my 66 coupe today, needs paint bad. Keep us posted on how you are doing. good luck take your time and remember this is just a hobby,RIGHT? Or is it an addiction? Im not sure anymore.