Terrible Starting Problem PLEASE HELP!!

[Derrick]

Update!!! Finally Fixed....Terrible Starting Problem PLEASE HELP!!

A couple months ago I put a new starter on my 75 Vette. It was just a regular replacement starter from AutoZone. This starter worked fine for a couple months until I let the car sit for about a month.

After the month of sitting I went to start the car....dead battery. I charged the battery a bit and tried to start the car. The starter would crank but then a terrible clanking sound came from the starter/engine. It sounded like someone was beating the engine with a hammer. I swapped out the old battery with a brand new interstate battery and the car cranked right up.

I drove the car about 40 miles the next couple of days and got in it one morning and the same terrible clanking sound occured when trying to start. I replaced the 2 month old starter with another new starter and the same clanking occured.

Some people say I need a new distributor because they think the engine is firing on the wrong cyclinders while trying to start.

Some say I need a new heavy duty race starter from Summit racing.

Some say I need a more powerful battery......PLEASE, ADVICE ANYONE???

Another note, after playing with different shim setups on the 2nd new starter we reinstalled without any shims, tapped on the starter with a hammer and the car cranked right up ad

 

[waterboy1976]

almost sounds like a bad wiring problem...intermittent power connection issues....when you say you tapped the starter and she started rightup that sounds like a flat spot, but not on a new one......then it sounds like its binding on the flywheel......so it would be a shim issue....always check your wires to make sure you have them to the right plugs. Check out the main power wire, ground wire etc to make sure your connections are good....

 

[JohnZ]

Did you re-install the starter brace from the forward end of the armature case to the side of the block? You don't need a "race" starter - AutoZone rebuilts are marginally acceptable (although they look nice, there aren't many new parts in them), but most starter issues can be solved with a genuine Delco starter, not a bargain-store rebuilt.

 

[Derrick]

Did you re-install the starter brace from the forward end of the armature case to the side of the block?

I'm not sure what you are refering to? The starter only has 2 bolts that hold it in place. I reinstalled the new one the same way the original was installed, and wired it the same way.

If I bought a race starter then I would be sure to get all new parts in the starter as opposed to rebuilt ones wouldn't you think?

 

[Derrick]

almost sounds like a bad wiring problem...always check your wires to make sure you have them to the right plugs. Check out the main power wire, ground wire etc to make sure your connections are good....

My car was running perfectly until this starter situation came up. I never messed with the spark plug wires....but I have been noticing that the car is running extremely rich. As a matter of fact there is always black, wet residue which smells like gas on the exhaust tips. Now that I think of it, since I put the new carb on a year ago I frequently have to adjust it to keep the car from running to rich (so rich it likes to keep running when I pull the key out of the ignition). The plugs and wires are brand new though, so I would guess that one of those MSD Ultimate HEI Kits (cap, rotor, module, coil, etc.) would maybe do the trick.

Thoughts???

 

[Vettehead Mikey]

Thoughts???

You're reading too many Summit catalogs or watching too much speed vision on TV. You don't need any of these boy racer go fast goodies to make your car run correctly.

The car started perfectly with stock equipment on it when it was new. Why would you need some aftermarket stuff now to achieve the same thing?

 

[Derrick]

You're reading too many Summit catalogs or watching too much speed vision on TV. You don't need any of these boy racer go fast goodies to make your car run correctly.

The car started perfectly with stock equipment on it when it was new. Why would you need some aftermarket stuff now to achieve the same thing?

1. Obviously some component of the stock system has failed causing the car not to start.

2. I've already replaced the starter twice with stock equipment, no success.

3. If i'm going to replace one of the stock components why not spend the extra money to go for a brand name like MSD.

4. I plan on installing a performance cam and tric flow heads which will increase the compression ratio, so that will likely cause more stress to a stock starter. The race starters are only about 150 more than a stock one, only about 10lb., and are much stronger.

5. I'm not just trying to fix the current problem, I'm trying to plan ahead and buy good equipment that can handle future mods.

6. If the so called boy racer parts from Summit didn't make an improvement in performance over their OEM competition none of the companies would be in business.

 

[Vettehead Mikey]

But you're not replacing with 'stock' components, from what I've read you're buying cheap rebuilt stuff of unknown quality.

The stock components can easily handle bad mannered engines like an L88. None of the mods you are planning will exceed those requirements.

None of the starter, battery or ignition mods you mention will increase performance one bit!

Places like Summit stay in business by producing flashy colour catalogs and magazine advertisements, not to mention sponsoring 'hot rod' TV shows on Speed Vision that help convince people that everything they sell will 'boost performance.'

Never heard of snake oil salesmen?

 

[Derrick]

None of the starter, battery or ignition mods you mention will increase performance one bit!

Battery?? I replaced the battery because it was dead, not because it would increase performance

Starter, duh, but it is 20lbs lighter and will likely out last an oem version since it's built to handle high compression engines.

 

[magoo]

Have you checked to be sure your alternator belt is tight and the charging system is OK? If it started with a new battery, then after 40 miles especially if they were at night with the lights on it didn't start again, maybe the battery is down again. Maybe even a short somewhere which is fairly commom in vettes. Generally getting a starter to work buy hitting it means a starter (armature) or solenoid problem.If you have a rich condition I would look at the carb first instead of the ignition system. Just my .02 hope it helps.

Mike

 

[Bob Chadwick]

Is that hammering sound the solenoid trying to engage? You could have a miniscule drain on the battery, not uncommon with these old wiring systems, that is discharging the battery to the point where it can't engage the starter.

 

[iron cross]

You're reading too many Summit catalogs or watching too much speed vision on TV. You don't need any of these boy racer go fast goodies to make your car run correctly.

The car started perfectly with stock equipment on it when it was new. Why would you need some aftermarket stuff now to achieve the same thing?

I agree,

Also take John Z`s advice.

 

[JohnZ]

I'm not sure what you are refering to? The starter only has 2 bolts that hold it in place. I reinstalled the new one the same way the original was installed, and wired it the same way.?

Some Bubba before you replaced the starter and didn't bother to re-install the starter brace that supports the weight of the forward end of the starter (the heaviest part); many "quickie" shops don't bother with the brace - they just shoot the two bolts at the rear and pitch the brace in the trash. The starter nose wasn't designed to support all the cantilevered weight of the armature case, and when the brace is left off, it distorts the nose, screwing up the alignment of the starter pinion with the flywheel ring gear, which eventually eats the gear teeth, cracks the nose casting, and the starter then goes belly up. Put a genuine Delco starter on it, install the brace like the factory did, and you'll never have to touch it again. Parts-store "lifetime warranties" on rebuilt starters are great, but how frequently do you really want to crawl under it and replace the starter just because it's free?

 

[Derrick]

Some Bubba before you replaced the starter and didn't bother to re-install the starter brace that supports the weight of the forward end of the starter (the heaviest part); many "quickie" shops don't bother with the brace - they just shoot the two bolts at the rear and pitch the brace in the trash. The starter nose wasn't designed to support all the cantilevered weight of the armature case, and when the brace is left off, it distorts the nose, screwing up the alignment of the starter pinion with the flywheel ring gear, which eventually eats the gear teeth, cracks the nose casting, and the starter then goes belly up. Put a genuine Delco starter on it, install the brace like the factory did, and you'll never have to touch it again. Parts-store "lifetime warranties" on rebuilt starters are great, but how frequently do you really want to crawl under it and replace the starter just because it's free?

Thanks, now that was a good reply !

 

[Motion 1]

This is just a long shot but I might caution you that you may have the wiring done wrong. There is a ground strap on most vette starters that can and is offten mistaken as a wire that belongs on the postive battery post of the starter itself, when it actually goes under one of the two bolts that hold the starter on.

I bought many a vette back in the late 70's, when I was a used vette dealer that had been done this way and nobody could figgure it out. This will cause all kinds of problems like you are experiencing. Check your wiring and trace each wire down to see where it goes.

Good Luck

 

[Mr. Chuck]

To review tried and true trouble shooting, what did your two month old starter tell you that made you suspect you needed to replace it! Inspection of the starter for wear or damage will usually give you insight into what is wrong. i.e. worn - damage gear teeth could indicate stater to fly wheel alignment and the need for the missing brace on the free end of the starter. Any motor/genertor (heavy equipment) mounted at one end only are in need of balancing the shaft load forces. A common bearing / alignment failure causing factor I have seen in over the years. Did you also verify your fly wheel teeth are still in good condition? Hope this helps!

 

[Derrick]

The problem was fixed this weekend. I ordered a MSD ultimate HEI kit from JEGS and installed it. The car fired up with no problems at all. Apparently there was some cross firing going on which was causing the clanking sound.

I still have one of the mini high torque starters on order from JEGS and will install that this coming weekend. It's only 8.5 lbs and can handle high compression engines (18:1 ratios) so I figure why not throw it on the car, if nothing else it'll save a bit of weight. Thanks for all the input fellas.

 

[Derrick]

This is just a long shot but I might caution you that you may have the wiring done wrong. There is a ground strap on most vette starters that can and is offten mistaken as a wire that belongs on the postive battery post of the starter itself, when it actually goes under one of the two bolts that hold the starter on.

So exactly how many connections should the starter have?